Belgian Strong with low gravity?

[yourfavo]

I did an all grain Belgian strong. Wrote the recipe myself and had a starting gravity of 1.043. In 4 days I checked it out since fermentation had slowed and my gravity was 1.009. I used WLP500 Trappist Ale Yeast so I think my attenuation was OK at this point ( I actually hit the high end). My next step was to add my sugars into the primary. I boiled, cooled and pitched 3lb clove honey (sam's club), 2 lb Belgian candi sugar, and 4 cups water. There was some foam after I poured in so I couldn't get an exact reading but I think it was around 1.039, which is what I expected from figuring out the sugar content of the honey and candi sugar. Here's where things went downhill (I think). I let it go another 4 days and fermentation slowed again so I check my gravity and it was 1.002!

I'm still learning these calculations but I expected my gravity to be 1.019 - 1.015. How did it get so low? I was thinking water in the honey, but that's a big drop. Do I really have an ABV of 7% (which is really where I want to be), but because of issues with my mash I thought I was going to end up being low (~4%).

 

[reefriot]

Im curious why you added honey and candy sugar after you fermented? I typically add that at initial ferment stage.

 

[yourfavo]

Im curious why you added honey and candy sugar after you fermented? I typically add that at initial ferment stage.

After reading a few threads on here I understood that the yeast typically does better when you separate it into 2 fermentation's. The sugar and honey are "easy" sugars and the yeast can get "tired". I wanted to make sure the malt sugars were all eaten up before I introduced more.

 

[Kee]

After adding simple sugars to a batch that was already 1.009, your gravity reading of 1.002 is not surprising, although I don't know what size batch you have, or your mash temp, recipe, etc. All of the Belgian yeasts I have used can bring a high gravity wort down to that range under the right conditions, getting more attenuation than the stated rates.

What issues did you have with the mash? What was your recipe?

 

[jeff62217]

Sounds like you had a lot of sugar in there.. I did a golden strong ale recently that was projected to hit 1.080 or so and I ended up 20 points lower at 1.060. My efficiency was low most likely because I didn't have my new mill set up properly.

Also if you're doing a golden strong, you should be using around 75% pilsner and 25% sugar.
I bought candi sugar my first time around, also did mine with US 2 row, but will be using cane sugar and Belgian pils next time.

Pitch your yeast around 64-65 degrees F and let the temp rise to the low 80s over a week.

As for the over attenuation, this is something I'm dealing with also. Almost all of my beers finish around 1.010.. I think mash temp is the culprit. Last brew day I checked the calibration on my thermometer and saw it was reading around 4 degrees higher than my kettle thermometer... so I compensated and now am waiting to see the results.

 

[yourfavo]

After adding simple sugars to a batch that was already 1.009, your gravity reading of 1.002 is not surprising, although I don't know what size batch you have, or your mash temp, recipe, etc. All of the Belgian yeasts I have used can bring a high gravity wort down to that range under the right conditions, getting more attenuation than the stated rates.

What issues did you have with the mash? What was your recipe?

Here's my recipe...

http://brewtoad.com/recipes/holiday-honey-cherry-ale

It ended up being ~6 gal in my fermenter. Mashed @ 149 F. The attenuation of my yeast was 75-80%... If i did the math right I got closer to 97%?!?!

 

[yourfavo]

Sounds like you had a lot of sugar in there.. I did a golden strong ale recently that was projected to hit 1.080 or so and I ended up 20 points lower at 1.060. My efficiency was low most likely because I didn't have my new mill set up properly.

Also if you're doing a golden strong, you should be using around 75% pilsner and 25% sugar.
I bought candi sugar my first time around, also did mine with US 2 row, but will be using cane sugar and Belgian pils next time.

Pitch your yeast around 64-65 degrees F and let the temp rise to the low 80s over a week.

As for the over attenuation, this is something I'm dealing with also. Almost all of my beers finish around 1.010.. I think mash temp is the culprit. Last brew day I checked the calibration on my thermometer and saw it was reading around 4 degrees higher than my kettle thermometer... so I compensated and now am waiting to see the results.

I thought that if my mash was off I would have seen that difference in my SG? Can mash issues throw off the attenuation as well?

 

[jeff62217]

I thought that if my mash was off I would have seen that difference in my SG? Can mash issues throw off the attenuation as well?

It's my understanding that efficiency will effect starting or original gravity, and mash temps will affect the amount of fermentable sugars vs non fermentable sugars/amount of body in your wort/beer.

 

[yourfavo]

It's my understanding that efficiency will affect starting or original gravity, and mash temps will affect the amount of fermentable sugars vs non fermentable sugars/amount of body in your wort/beer.

Ahhh! I think I get that. Then the gravity would be the combination of fermentable and non-fermentable sugars, and a "perfect" mash would make sure ALL sugars are fermentable?

 

[jeff62217]

Ahhh! I think I get that. Then the gravity would be the combination of fermentable and non-fermentable sugars, and a "perfect" mash would make sure ALL sugars are fermentable?

You don't want all of the sugars to be fermentable. It's all about the balance. The dryer beers are usually mashed lower, under 150, to give a lower FG and a dry/crisp flavor. When you mash closer to 160 you end up with more body, non fermentables, and a higher FG.

This is how I understand the effect mash temps can have on attenuation. The sticky threads in the all grain section are very good reads, a lot of info there. I'm getting outta my league giving this much advice and being so new.

 

[Kee]

Here's my recipe...

http://brewtoad.com/recipes/holiday-honey-cherry-ale

It ended up being ~6 gal in my fermenter. Mashed @ 149 F. The attenuation of my yeast was 75-80%... If i did the math right I got closer to 97%?!?!

That mash temp will give you the most fermentable wort. By the way, I am assuming that you tasted the sample when you took the last gravity reading? It will taste differently (better) when it is done and carbonated, but it is a data point not to be overlooked.

 

[yourfavo]

You don't want all of the sugars to be fermentable. It's all about the balance. The dryer beers are usually mashed lower, under 150, to give a lower FG and a dry/crisp flavor. When you mash closer to 160 you end up with more body, non fermentables, and a higher FG.

This is how I understand the effect mash temps can have on attenuation. The sticky threads in the all grain section are very good reads, a lot of info there. I'm getting outta my league giving this much advice and being so new.

thanks, that is really good info that I didnt know about. I knew about how mash temps effect the body, but didnt kno about how they effect fermentable vs non fermentable sugars. Looks like i have some more reading to do... I have been looking around at different recipe software, but I dont think I saw one that shows the FG changing based on mash temp. Does anyone know a good software or a good resource that would give me some of the formulas involved?