Belgian Strong Golden Ale - Fermentation Schedule?

[CidahMastah]

From my experience, not only does bottle aging tend to lend to a more intimate, personal and sophisticated aesthetic, you actually have more yeast in contact with more beer than bulk aging. Some say that bulk aging puts downward pressure on the yeast, suppressing ester release. I don't know if there's enough volume to really make a difference, but I'm unable to actually give you some science behind it.

Bottles = enhanced character / micro oxygenation due to corking. While this is an article on wine, there are many parallels:

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0308814607002282

Happy brewing, friend!

I don't agree with this.

In general any aging after the first 3+ weeks or so the aging process isn't shooting for ester development from yeast, or benefiting from contact with yeast. In fact the main reason for switching it over to a secondary is to remove the beer/cider/wine from a bulk of the lees to prevent the yeast from autolysis, which can produce off flavors.

As for micro oxygenation, the head space you leave in your bottle is more than adequate. I have read that most wine makers prefer using synthetic corks for wines that will be aged and drank before 5 years of life (pretty sure you aren't going to keep your brew around longer than that). Also that only red wines will show any possible benefit from real corks. Synthetic corks don't breathe (real corks breathe a very, very little amount).

Bulk aging by far is my preferred method. I would venture to say that it creates a more uniform end product, is better protected against temperature swings due to its thermal mass, etc.

 

[CidahMastah]

Update: 1.006 and counting.

Its been on the yeast for 3 weeks, using a conical so I will take the yeast out on Saturday.

How long should i leave this brew in Secondary for, before I bottle?

While some folks leave it on the lees for longer or shorter - I would recommend taking it off the lees after 3 weeks. You don't really get any benefit from leaving it on the yeast longer (see above). you do take on the risk of autolysis, and at that ABV, that is some stressed out yeast.

 

[OLDBREW]

I agree with CidahMastah on those last posts. +1 on prefer bulk conditioning.

have you tasted the samples? is the alcohol hot tasting or cloaked somewhat?
that is really a low tg for a .090 og

 

[Snotpoodle]

Alcohol is cloaked, I can taste soft fruit, and of course hops - its still rather bitter.

I am going to take the beer of the yeast in 3 days, then leave it in the conical for a while.

Thanks for the advice so far.

 

[CidahMastah]

Alcohol is cloaked, I can taste soft fruit, and of course hops - its still rather bitter.

I am going to take the beer of the yeast in 3 days, then leave it in the conical for a while.

Thanks for the advice so far.

if you have the ability - purge the head space with CO2 (there will still be some O2 in there but less than without purging). I typically secondary when dry hoping, or for my belgian quads, etc. I use kegs though and purge with CO2.

 

[Snotpoodle]

I have a large 80L conical, and the Belgian is only 40L, so this is probably a good idea. I didn't see one bubble through the "airlock" so I imagine all the Co2 has filled the headspace (which is large).

So, do you think a "secondary" off the yeast is necessary for this style, or should i go straight to the bottles and just leave them for 2 months?

 

[CidahMastah]

Ah forgot that you with your fancy conical don't have to rack..., to get it off the yeast!

Me personally, I would get it off the yeast at ~3 weeks. then age at room temp (55-70F) for about 5-7 more weeks or so and then bottle. You could bulk age it longer, but I would want to start trying it in test bottles to see how it is coming along.

that was the schedule I followed with my quad, and it came out great.

I think there are real benefits to bulk aging something with alcohol that high. If you plan to bottle carb, add your yeast after ~2months when bottling. Personally, I don't prefer the bottle carb over keg carbing, so i would keg carb. I have tried side by side and to me there is no inherent benefit to bottle carbing. Plus I can tinker with the CO2 up and down to suit my liking for the beer, before I bottle.

 

[Snotpoodle]

Update:

I took the yeast off through the bottom tap on the conical. Had to loosen up the truub (mostly hops) with a kebab stick, as it wouldn't drain out! After a little encouragement, I managed to get 2 x 750ml bottles full of yeast + trub that I will be washing.

FG as it stands is 1.006 / 1.007 (from 1.090).

The hectic hop bitterness has faded, and the "soft fruit / pear / raisin" is much more pronounced.

Interestingly, at 11% (and so early), you can't actually taste the alcohol, but you sure as heck can feel it about 2 seconds after you swallow. A nice warm feeling of Belgian awesomeness....

Question:

Since I have taken this off the yeast (well, most of it), when i bottle in 5 - 7 weeks, what yeast should i repitch for bottling? Does this go as bulk into the fermenter, or individually into bottles...help?

 

[Bru]

Ive only used yeast at bottling after lengthy secondaries (6 months +) I always get good carbonation without it. But you could use any yeast. 1/2 a teaspoon of dry ale yeast, rehydrated in water and added to the bottling bucket.
Did you drink the sample I gave you ?

 

[orangehero]

I'm not sure of the procedure for ales, but during lager fermentation in Cylindro-Conical Vessels the yeast/trub is dumped several times (2-4 times) according to schedule.

You should ideally repitch the original yeast at 1-2 million cells per mL of finished beer. An alcohol-tolerant flavor-neutral ale yeast strain or flavor-neutral wine/champagne yeast can be substituted. I've had success with Lalvin EC-1118; ferments fast and clean forming a nice tight cake. Some people have success without repitching.

Cold conditioning at 50F for a few weeks prior to bottling will speed up clarification and maturation.

 

[Snotpoodle]

Ive only used yeast at bottling after lengthy secondaries (6 months +) I always get good carbonation without it. But you could use any yeast. 1/2 a teaspoon of dry ale yeast, rehydrated in water and added to the bottling bucket.
Did you drink the sample I gave you ?

Hey Bru - now I know who you are

Yes, I did taste yours, fabulous it was. I chilled it for 2 days, then drank all 750ml's myself. I noticed little to no hop aroma (which I am also aiming for), and good carbonation, a very nice white fluffy head. I did taste some of the alcohol early in the sip, and I definately felt the alcohol about an hour after finishing the bottle. i thought the flavours were delicate, and nothing (except the alcohol burn) was in your face for very long.

I really liked it, and would be happy to finish whatever else you have left

 

[Bru]

Im glad you didn't share it

 

[Snotpoodle]

UPDATE:

I took a sample yesterday for Quality Assurance purposes, and took a hydro reading just in case.

The BGSA is now sitting at 1.003 / 1.002 !!!!, this is after I tapped out two 750ml bottles of yeast and trub.

So I now have a 11.6% Belgian Golden STRONG Ale (about 39 Litres worth) sitting in the conical, just waiting to be enjoyed.

Its been almost 2 months since I brewed it up, its been in secondary for 3 weeks. I am thinking of bottling 2 x 330mls for tasting. Is this way too soon for the peak of this brew, or would it be fine to bottle the whole lot up now and let it sit, and sneak a few bottles out here and there.

So far, no HOT alcohol, no burn, just a warm throat about 2 seconds after you swallow.

Om nom nom.

 

[solbes]

I would secondary for another 3 weeks or so if you can wait. Then bottle that baby and do your very best to wait it out. Maybe sample 1 bottle every month for the first 4 months. Then determine if you can wait some more or if you just gotta have it.

I have a Tripel (7% w/ WY 3787) that was brewed 5 months ago and it has just undergone a great transition between months 3 and 5. I don't think it's peaked yet even though I am tempted to drink it all up. More waiting...

 

[1Mainebrew]

My BGSA was amazing at like 9 months but just continued to improve until I drank the last bottle. Be patient, this beer will probably age well for years.

 

[Snotpoodle]

I can wait, and that's 2 solid posts in a row saying WAIT WAIT WAIT

I'll secondary it for another 3 weeks, no problem, then bottle em up, cellar em, and try one or two every month. I might have to brew it again soon, so I can have some more by the time i finish the first batch!

 

[solbes]

...I might have to brew it again soon, so I can have some more by the time i finish the first batch!

Exactly. I have another Tripel in the lineup. This one a little different but with same yeast. It's first off the bench to the on-deck circle.