Belgian strong ale

[Terry_Plow]

Brewed a partial mash kit last weekend (9 days ago).

Recipe calls for 7 days in primary, then 20 days in secondary before bottling.

OG was 1.101 (recipe called for 1.102).
7 days later, I'm at 1.061 (picture below, smelled delicious)
9 days later, I'm at 1.056
FG is supposed to be 1.020

Fermentation took almost 24 hours to see any bubbles. By the second day it was burping pretty steadily.

I pitched the yeast when the wort was 70-75 degrees like the vial said.

Not sure how aerated it was, I poured it into the bucket "not gently" and I stirred it a couple times after I pitched the yeast.

On day 9, I still need bubbles every 10-20 seconds in the airlock.

I did have some temp variations during fermentation, though the first 24 hours should have been pretty steady (in the 68-72 range). But for days 2-6, the temp moved from 62-74 degrees (yikes?).

My concerns are my lack of krausen and my temp variations. And that the gravity is still far from final. I'm seeing arguments in both directions as to using a secondary or not.

I'm thinking of leaving it in primary for 2 weeks (5 more days), test the gravity, if it's close to final, rack it to the secondary.

If it's not close, let it ride in the primary the whole time (4 weeks total).

Thoughts?

 

[helibrewer]

That is a huge beer, it is going to take some time in primary. For Belgians it can take as long to lose those last few points as it took for the fermentation to get there to begin with. Don't secondary it. You can raise the temp 1 degree per day until getting up to about 72F then just let it finish...it will take time

 

[grimzella]

my strong Belgians are in primary for one month minimum. if I do secondary,,, its a little longer at 6-8 weeks. I have found that making a strong beer,, you need that oxygen. my Belgians started tasting much better after I got the O2 tank and stone,, fizz it up about 30-40 seconds then pitch. temp control is important also with this style.

 

[Terry_Plow]

my strong Belgians are in primary for one month minimum. if I do secondary,,, its a little longer at 6-8 weeks. I have found that making a strong beer,, you need that oxygen. my Belgians started tasting much better after I got the O2 tank and stone,, fizz it up about 30-40 seconds then pitch. temp control is important also with this style.

on a strong belgian (10% ABV) like this, why would you go into the secondary? Just for settling/clarity? Is that the only benefit? Or does it NEED to get off the yeast bed?

so you're saying there is no harm in leaving it in the primary for 4 weeks? if the gravity is good, then bottle it?

Should have mentioned before, big time n00b here, 2nd brew.

Thanks for the responses. I feel more at ease knowing that it's not working slower than it should be. Belgians take time...

 

[Terry_Plow]

That is a huge beer, it is going to take some time in primary. For Belgians it can take as long to lose those last few points as it took for the fermentation to get there to begin with. Don't secondary it. You can raise the temp 1 degree per day until getting up to about 72F then just let it finish...it will take time

based off your signature, you seem to be a Belgian brew expert.
any concerns with the look of my 7 day krausen?
It's just WAY less then my first brew (amber ale).

Thanks for the insight. Very much appreciated.

2 brews in and I am addicted.

 

[grimzella]

just like helibrewer stated.. it will take time.. 4 weeks is fine. I don't secondary often, but some recipes\yeast combos I use taste better if I secondary them for like 6-8 weeks. don't know why.. but it works for these beers.

 

[Terry_Plow]

My mind is at ease. Thanks

 

[Terry_Plow]

just like helibrewer stated.. it will take time.. 4 weeks is fine. I don't secondary often, but some recipes\yeast combos I use taste better if I secondary them for like 6-8 weeks. don't know why.. but it works for these beers.

4 weeks in primary then an additional 6-8 weeks in secondary?

Or 4 primary + 2 to 4 weeks secondary?

Oh man. I gotta wait forever to try this beer!

 

[CA_Mouse]

For my Belgian Rye I left it in the primary for 3 weeks before I even tested for final gravity (mine wasn't quite as big only being 9.2%) then I transferred to a keg where is sat for a week before I started to carb it. It really came into it's own about 3 weeks after being in the keg.

 

[grimzella]

yup.. 6-8 weeks ..but I only secondary certain recipes, not many go into the secondary. I bottle, cork & store. It takes mine even longer to start tasting great. I have one that's been in bottles for a year and a half.. I just make them and put them away.. forget about 'em for awhile.

 

[beergolf]

No one has mentioned this yet, but did you do. a starter? What yeast? If you did not do a starter, you severely underpitched and will have problems getting it to finish.

Like Helibrewer mentioned, Belgian yeast can take off fast but take a very long time to finish up. Give it plenty more time and let us know what happens.

 

[solbes]

Agree with beergolf above. If you pitched one vial of yeast, you severely underpitched on a mammoth brew. You would want a 4 quart starter for a beer that big. The yeast reproduced to start the fermentation and they got munching on it. But there may not have been sufficient numbers in the beginning to finish the job in the high alcohol environment.

I would gently rouse the yeast back into suspension with a santized spoon, but try not to splash or introduce oxygen. Then start warming it a degree or two per day until you hit the max temp listed by the yeast manufacturer for that strain (assuming you used a belgian yeast strain). Hold for a few days and recheck the gravity.

If this doesn't get you there, there are other alternatives. You could pitch an active yeast starter and that will sometimes get it rockin' again.

 

[Terry_Plow]

Agree with beergolf above. If you pitched one vial of yeast, you severely underpitched on a mammoth brew. You would want a 4 quart starter for a beer that big. The yeast reproduced to start the fermentation and they got munching on it. But there may not have been sufficient numbers in the beginning to finish the job in the high alcohol environment.

I would gently rouse the yeast back into suspension with a santized spoon, but try not to splash or introduce oxygen. Then start warming it a degree or two per day until you hit the max temp listed by the yeast manufacturer for that strain (assuming you used a belgian yeast strain). Hold for a few days and recheck the gravity.

If this doesn't get you there, there are other alternatives. You could pitch an active yeast starter and that will sometimes get it rockin' again.

It was 1 vial.
WLP545 Belgian Strong Ale Yeast

White Labs says: Optimum Ferment Temp.66-72°F, so I'm kinda right in their sweet spot.

I'll try gently stirring it up with a sanitized spoon tonight.

I'm concerned about the lack of krausen. Should I jump right to the active yeast starter? Or see if it starts bubbling after stirring?

 

[Terry_Plow]

I used an ABV calculator, and it's sitting at 6% right now, instead of the intended 10%.

Say it stopped right here, what would the result taste like?

Drinkable? Just not as potent?
Or sweet cause all the sugars weren't munched up by yeast?

 

[beergolf]

Before you do too much just give the yeast a swirl to make sure it is in suspension and maybe get the temp up slightly. I

It has only been 10 days, which is nothing for a beer that big. Give it a couple more weeks and see where it is at. If it is still low then there are a couple of options.

 

[grimzella]

beergolf nice one,, and by the sounds of it.. he did under pitch. if you were to just pitch vials and no starter.. I would pitch 4 or 5 of them. it can be time consuming to bump up the yeast count with starters but its well worth it. My steps might be overkill but I start out with,,

one vial and 1000ml of boiled light DME ...
then I make 2000ml boiled light DME, then dump the 1000ml slurry into this... (old wort dumped first)
I keep this up until I reach a gallon...

Revvy has a good read about this somewhere (or commented on a post),, proper ways to step up a yeast starter.
O2 and the right amount of yeast plus temp control make for great belgians.

Sometimes you need to go a little higher on the temp with Belgian yeast if you want a good profile.
the manufacturers directions are approximate with the temps. I sometimes go as high as 82 deg when making Belgians.

 

[solbes]

I regret to say that a Belgian that finishes north of 1.050 will be too sweet and will be pretty undrinkable. Belgians are usually very dry given their alcohol content so they are "digestable".

That level of sweetness is part of the style in a Wee Heavy (though they usually finish between 1.020 and 1.035). Similar FG's for Russian Imperial Stouts and Barleywine's, but that is balanced by a high hopping rate between 60 and 100 IBU's.

I agree that 9 days is way too early to get overly concerned at this point. If you go another 1.5-2 weeks and it isn't dropping then you have a few options. Keep us up to date on that.

 

[Terry_Plow]

Will do. Thanks to everyone for all your help.
I took a reading yesterday when I stirred it up and it went down 0.002. So at this rate I have 17.5 more days till I hit my target.
I'll let you know where it's reading at the 4 week mark.
Should I stir it up 1 more time after a week?

 

[hokieguy95]

If after you have fermented for a month and try all the advice given in this thread and still no luck, it has also been suggested to try WLP099. It's a monster

http://www.whitelabs.com/yeast/wlp099-super-high-gravity-ale-yeast


I recently posted a similar thread on the same subject.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f37/final-gravity-way-too-high-belgian-strong-dark-447880/

 

[solbes]

Yeah you don't want to open it up daily or anything. Open it after another week, take a reading, and stir it up again. Close and seal and make your determination after a month.

 

[Terry_Plow]

15 days in, and it's down to 1.037. Getting closer to the elusive FG of 1.020. I gave it a gentle stir and it's hanging out at 72 degrees. I'll check it in a week, and if it's under 1.025, I'll rack to secondary for 4 weeks. Since I've had to stir it up twice, I figured a secondary would be my best bet for clarifying.

 

[jrfehon]

Stay patient and it should get to 1.020, just don't rack it to secondary until it's finished attenuating.

Regardless, I hope this brew motivates you to read up on making yeast starters. You don't need to invest money in equipment to make starters (I use to use a lemonade pitcher). But making starters and pitching the correct amount of yeast cells will make your beers even better.

It's cool that you're getting into this hobby! I find that every batch I make I learn something new and get better as a brewer. To me that's the best part about this. I hope your Belgian kicks ass!

 

[Terry_Plow]

Thanks. I think I got in a little over my head with making such a big beer for my second brew ever.

Lesson learned for sure about the yeast. Looking at calculators online, I should have pitched 4 vials (or used a starter). Whoops.

 

[jrfehon]

Don't sweat it, your beer will still be good!

 

[beergolf]

15 days in, and it's down to 1.037

You still are only at 15 days. Step away from the fermenter! and let the yeast do it's job. For a beer that big, and with under pitching the yeast it will take a long time to finish. Nothing you are doing will make it go any faster. Keep the temp up and give it a couple more weeks before checking again. Belgian yeasts are famous for starting off fast and then taking a very long time to tick off the last few points of attenuation.

My advice is to go get another fermenter and brew another lower gravity batch. That way you will not be inclined to keep messing with this batch.

 

[Terry_Plow]

Ok beergolf.

I'll check it in 2 weeks. I won't open or stir.

Funny you said I should brew another to keep my mind off this one, I did that exactly that yesterday.

Thanks for all the advice.

 

[jrfehon]

In case you didn't find this already, it's easy to make a starter to get you close to the
desired cell count.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/how-make-yeast-starter-pictorial-76101/

If you want to get more exact with your starter use this web page.
http://www.brewersfriend.com/yeast-pitch-rate-and-starter-calculator/

I use that website every time I make a starter. Seriously, a very easy process and it will make your beer 10 times better. Under pitching yeast can cause longer lag times, which makes your wort more susceptible to infections. And under pitching can stress out the yeast which creates off flavors. Just make sure if you don't have a stir plate to shake up the starter to add oxygen. When I used a lemonade pitcher for starters every time I walked by it I would shake it up. Now I have a stir plate so I don't have to do that.

 

[Terry_Plow]

24 day update:
Down to 1.025 (target is 1.020).
I want to rack to secondary this upcoming weekend. Do you think I'm close enough? I plan on keeping it the secondary for at least 4 weeks. Air lock is still bubbling once every 10-20 seconds.

I know racking isn't necessary, but I want to get another brew going in the primary and the general consensus seems to be 4 week max in the primary.

 

[solbes]

Sounds like it still has a point or three to crunch through. I would leave it in primary until the gravity stabilizes over a 3-5 day period. You should not have any yeast autolysis concerns as it is likely still in the final stages of fermentation.

Once the gravity is stable, rack it to secondary and let it sit for awhile to clear and cleanup. In the mean time, I would consider picking up a second bucket for primary #2. It gives you more flexibility, and they are usually very cheap in the grand scheme of things.

 

[Terry_Plow]

Got it. I thought the "4 week" deadline was applicable to all brews.
But probably only an issue for quick ferments.
Makes sense. My yeast aren't dead yet.
I already got 2 fermenters. Looks like I need a third!
This forum is the best