Beginner brewed a braggot by mistake - help.

[byronyasgur]

I worked in a commercial brewery for 7 years which leads to overconfidence, that's my lame excuse!!
I was watching the pennies a bit too closely and having a free supply of honey I decided for some reason to use honey instead of buying the full ammount of malt extract. I know now that it's sort of 10% I should have used but I used around 40% with my first two homebrews - which I think makes them a braggot. To cut a very long story short my IPA is a week into carbonation and I realise that an IPA should bottle condition for ( I know this is debatable ) but I guess 2 or 3 weeks - whereas a braggot should condition for a lot longer. I tried a bottle yesterday and it's underwhelming to say the least - it might be just green but I really think there's a lot of other problems and I know I paid a lot of attention to sanitation, temperatures, particularly fermentation temperatures so I'm starting to think it was the honey. Has anyone any thought's on this. I'm sure there will be differing opinions but at this stage I'm 2 very underwhelming brews and and getting a bit discouraged. I'll try a prehopped kit next which is what I should have done to start with but any help to save my IPA would be appreciated.

Here's the recipe

 

[botigol]

In what way(s) are they underwhelming?

 

[MrFancyPlants]

I'll guess that the body is to thin to support the hops. If it weren't already bottled I would say introduce a saison yeast and a brett yeast and give it a few more months. As it is, conditioning at room temperature for some months and then crashing in the fridge for a while will help, but probably not make it a great. Put it in storage for a while and pop one in the fridge every once in a while. I call these beers "thinkers" because when you drink one you can think about the off tastes and how you will avoid them in your next brews.

 

[MadHomebrewer]

You should try the 15 min pale ale recipe on here next. It is very easy and delicious. I like to use Citra hops, but use your favorite.

Now to your beer. I normally say consume an IPA fresh, but with that much honey I would bottle and age it. Try a bottle every week or two to see if it improves. Meads often need a year to age properly. Just my .02!

 

[byronyasgur]

In what way(s) are they underwhelming?

Well it's too early and my taste is not experienced enough to know whether a green beer will taste good or not but I suppose I would describe it as having the following characteristics

- slightly strange taste - maybe it's what people refer to as boozy not sure - not a disgusting taste but not a very pleasant one either
- slight "sickly sweet" like there's a bit of aspartame or something in it
- I don't think it's as hoppy as I thought it would be either - aroma is OK but only ok - taste is the main problem it's overwhelmed by those tastes above. - bitterness is I suppose roughly right I don't know really

the first brew was a similar beer with similar problems but also I didn't realise I needed to keep fermentation temp low - I fermented this one around 16C ( US-05 )

 

[byronyasgur]

I'll guess that the body is to thin to support the hops. If it weren't already bottled I would say introduce a saison yeast and a brett yeast and give it a few more months. As it is, conditioning at room temperature for some months and then crashing in the fridge for a while will help, but probably not make it a great. Put it in storage for a while and pop one in the fridge every once in a while. I call these beers "thinkers" because when you drink one you can think about the off tastes and how you will avoid them in your next brews.

it finished at around 1006 - would the other yeasts do something with the remaining points or what. I don't really understand about that part but your point about thinking about it over a long period is good - what good would cold crashing do i thought that was more for clearing the beer?

 

[byronyasgur]

You should try the 15 min pale ale recipe on here next. It is very easy and delicious. I like to use Citra hops, but use your favorite.

thanks for the tip I might try it. This one I presume - https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=525770

... but with that much honey I would bottle and age it. Try a bottle every week or two to see if it improves. Meads often need a year to age properly. Just my .02!

that's what I was wondering would you say it's fairly obvious I'd need to age it or are we just guessing here ... and where would the hops fit in with all this - I presume the aroma and flavour hops would diminish completely over a long period of time

 

[botigol]

The "sickly sweet" part is due to there being extra sugar in solution; it hasn't been used by the yeast for carbonation yet.

The strange taste is probably the yeast not being happy during fermentation which caused it to produce byproducts that don't taste very good and maybe fusel alcohol as well. It may be just a little green too.

Not going to help with what you were attempting to create, but letting it rest seems like the best course of action. At minimum, wait two weeks so that they can finish carbonating.

How did you prime your bottles; sugar, corn sugar, honey, other? If you used honey, it take longer for the bottles to complete carbonation.

 

[byronyasgur]

The "sickly sweet" part is due to there being extra sugar in solution; it hasn't been used by the yeast for carbonation yet.

The strange taste is probably the yeast not being happy during fermentation which caused it to produce byproducts that don't taste very good and maybe fusel alcohol as well. It may be just a little green too.

Not going to help with what you were attempting to create, but letting it rest seems like the best course of action. At minimum, wait two weeks so that they can finish carbonating.

How did you prime your bottles; sugar, corn sugar, honey, other? If you used honey, it take longer for the bottles to complete carbonation.

thanks for that - yes I think there's fusels in there maybe - my first beer I let the temperature get up to 25/26C and from the little I know/can taste I think there were fusels in that - but this beer I got that part right and yet the strange taste is strangely familiar, so sadly it makes sense - I suppose I would have used a different yeast if I was brewing with that much honey. I will wait anyway and see.

Primed with table sugar

 

[MrFancyPlants]

The other yeasts would bring down the gravity further but with their complexity add back something that is like body. Also I believe brett "chews through" some of the hop compounds making it less bitter.

Here is my similar thread using 20% honey: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=568221&page=2

 

[byronyasgur]

The other yeasts would bring down the gravity further but with their complexity add back something that is like body. Also I believe brett "chews through" some of the hop compounds making it less bitter.

Here is my similar thread using 20% honey: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=568221&page=2

That's interesting - I read the full thread - sounds a lot like mine tbh - so was your's 6 months after ferment that it started tasting good - did I get that right

 

[dwhite60]

I've done a couple braggots. Time did not hurt either one of them. They were more barley wine strength and held up for a LONG time.

I've got a book by Dave Miller, "The Complete Handbook of Home Brewing", that has a recipe for "Mead Ale". Apparently the Brits used to make it for the troops overseas. Made a batch of this one time. While it was thin it did have an interesting flavor. Six pounds honey. Six AAU hops.


All the Best,
D.White

 

[byronyasgur]

I've done a couple braggots. Time did not hurt either one of them. They were more barley wine strength and held up for a LONG time.

I've got a book by Dave Miller, "The Complete Handbook of Home Brewing", that has a recipe for "Mead Ale". Apparently the Brits used to make it for the troops overseas. Made a batch of this one time. While it was thin it did have an interesting flavor. Six pounds honey. Six AAU hops.


All the Best,
D.White

Thanks ... interesting - what do you mean exactly by "held up" for a long time - do you mean they took a long time to come right

 

[dwhite60]

At six months in the bottle a mead is pretty good. Two or three years and it turns into something incredible.

I made some "Joe's Ancient Orange Mead" many years ago (Everyone should try this once. It's easy and delicious). Running out of storage place a few years later I decided to start thinning out some old stock. I popped open a bottle of this old batch and it was like Grand Marnier brandy. I had to re-think my thinning out plan.

Let them sit for a while and pop one every couple weeks or so. You''ll note the changes. Since this batch will be in "long term maturation" you need to make some more beer!


All the Best,
D. White