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Beer has a funky sweetness

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Momar

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This is the first batch I have brewed and my beer is still in the aging process. I read on the internet that you shouldn't cap half full bottles because they might blow up.. I have one half full one so emptied it out just in case.

The problem is I thought I would just give it a try to see how it is coming long. It's only 5 days into the aging process. I realize that the beer isn't ready at this point, but would it be normal for a beer to have a sweet sugary taste? I am concerned because this is my first brew ever and I have never tasted a flavor like that in any beer I have ever had. I used the Truebrew Wheat beer kit if that makes any difference.
 

El Pistolero

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Momar said:
I read on the internet that you shouldn't cap half full bottles because they might blow up.. I have one half full one so emptied it out just in case.
Well I know almost nothing, but I have a pretty good idea that if the the half full bottle blows, it won't be until after all of the full bottles have erupted. Am I wrong about this, oh wise ones? :confused:

It does seem likely tho that the half full bottle might just taste a little different than the rest...half full means a lot of oxygen sitting on top of the beer.
 

sudsmonkey

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I agree with you, P. Air compresses more than liquid( more atoms in the liquid, I think) , the full bottle would go bang first.
On the sweetness topic; Did you use a large amount of extract? Did you use a lot of priming sugar? I've got a vanilla\coffee stout in the bottle that tasted like a hoppy cotton candy a week ago. I better let that one sit a while. I would think , too, that it would depend on the style of beer you made. Is it a thick ale , or something else that might come off sweet tasting? Let it age a couple of weeks and try it again. They tell me that patience is a virtue. :D
 

Sir Sudster

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El Pistolero said:
Well I know almost nothing, but I have a pretty good idea that if the the half full bottle blows, it won't be until after all of the full bottles have erupted. Am I wrong about this, oh wise ones?
I would just like to correct El Pistolero on one thing. The bottle is half empty not half full.

El Pistolero said:
It does seem likely tho that the half full bottle might just taste a little different than the rest...half full means a lot of oxygen sitting on top of the beer.
...half empty means theres not enough oxygen on top of that beer.

Hey, I'm a pessimistic Beer lover OK!
 

3rd and Long

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Yes, A full bottle would explode before a half empty bottle..

As far as the sweetness goes.. probably one of two things, either your fermentation didn't compelete due to the yeast being old (happens alot with kits), you can check this with a hydrometer. Or you could be tasting the priming sugar from when you bottled.

If you saw a vigorous fermentation then it's proably the latter and let the beer sit a few more weeks.
 

Sir Sudster

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Ah, Third and Long is also a pessimistic kinda Beer enthusiast. Thanks for a descent response. Can't seem to provide one at this point.
 

AHammer16

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The beer is sweet because the yeast in the bottle has yet to consume the sugars which carb. the beer. Let is sit. I know how hard it is to wait, i just finished my second batch and the first was soooo hard to leave alone. If you are literate then buy the complete joy of home brewing. You can find it on e bay and amazon for cheap. I got my second edition copy for $1.50, the book will answer all of you questions and help you to make better beer!!
 

bikebryan

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sudsmonkey said:
I agree with you, P. Air compresses more than liquid( more atoms in the liquid, I think) , the full bottle would go bang first.
Truthfully, the liquid portion won't compress at all. That is one reason why water is such a great conductor of sound.
 

AlaskaAl(e)

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AHammer16 said:
If you are literate then buy the complete joy of home brewing. You can find it on e bay and amazon for cheap. I got my second edition copy for $1.50, the book will answer all of you questions and help you to make better beer!!
I would think that it would be very difficult to read/post on this thread were he not.
 

justbrewit

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i do believe that it takes 9 day to carbonate the beer in the bottle, if you opened it after 5 days, thats why its sweet. this is at room temp mind you!
 

Orfy

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If the bottle is half full with the same amount of primer, doesn't that mean that the yeast will have more food and oxygen for the volume of beer therfore generating or having the capability to generate more CO2 therefore more presure?

I've read that half full bottles are more volatile.#
But there again you guys are probably right in reality.

:rolleyes:
 

Walker

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if you prime the whole batch before bottling, the proportions of yeast and sugar are the same in each bottle, no matter how full that bottle is.

Now.. recalling the intense physics I had to study in college....

With the same beer/sugar mixture in a full bottle, some CO2 will escape into the neck. It will eventually build up enough pressure to prevent further CO2 from coming out of the beer.

In a half-full/empty bottle MORE CO2 will be allowed to escape from the beer before the pressure in the airspace reaches the critical point at which it prevents further escaping of the gas from the liquid.

However, the pressure at which things stabilize will be the same.

As a scientist-type person with a lot of physics background, I honestly can't see why a half filled bottle would build up any more pressure than a full bottle. True, there will be more GAS in the half-filled bottle, but the pressure in each should be the same.

Prehaps the danger of a half-filled bottle (if this is even true) comes from the fact that MORE of the actual glass is exposed to the pressurized gas. In a full bottle, only the neck is exposed. The glass at the neck of the bottle is thicker than the rest of the glass. IN a half-filled bottle, the neck and part of the belly are also exposed to the pressure. The belly has thinner glass due to the whole process of blowing glass to expand it at the belly. More surface area exposed and the thinner glass of the belly might mean a higher chance of finding a weak-spot in the glass where a facture could occur.

This is my theory. Take it as just a theory.

edit: one more thing. Liquids are essentially NON-compressible. This is the fundamental thing that makes hydraulic systems work.

-walker
 

justbrewit

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i don't think that just because its half full or that there is less liquid there is more sugar. when you bottle the beer, you mix the sugar in the whole batch so every bottle should have pretty much the same amount of sugar in it. less liquid does not mean more sugar if its mixed in the whole batch
 

Walker

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yeah, you and I agree on this point justbrewit (but I think you were talking to orfy, right?)

ANyway, I retract part of my previous post. There WILL be more pressure in the half-full bottle.

Pressure on the liquid ias measured in force/area (ie; pounds per square inch, or newtons per square centimeter).

In a full bottle, you have something like 1 square inch of surface area on the liquid. A pressure of X lbs per suare inch will stop the CO2 from escaping from the beer.

In a half-full bottle, you have something like 5 or 6 square inches of liquid surface area. It will take 5 or 6 times the amount of pressure to stop the gas from escaping.

Ok.. I've convinced myself that a half-full bottle has more pressure built up in it, AND it has that pressure applied to thinner glass.

-walker
 

justbrewit

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i was talkin to every one, but i do agree with you. there is more surface area of glass to take the pressure with out having liquid to stop this. most of the time its the neck of the bottle that has the pressure and its thicker there. i think he did the right thing pouring this bottle out. better safe than exploding!!!!!
 

El Pistolero

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Have to disagree with you on your physics just a bit...a half full bottle mean more volume (6 ozs vs less than .5 oz) so less pressure. It would be virtually impossible for a half full bottle to explode, and it would certainly happen a long time after all the full bottles exploded.

The reason you don't keep a half full bottle is that they end up tasting like crap.
 

Darth Konvel

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I'm confused. Does the CO2 in solution in a normally full bottle of beer exert no pressure against the walls of the bottle? I can understand how a larger headspace would result in a higher pressure equilibrium, but I don't see how the system as a whole (both headspace and liquid) is not exerting the pressure evenly within the bottle.
 

Walker

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El Pistolero said:
Have to disagree with you on your physics just a bit...a half full bottle mean more volume (6 ozs vs less than .5 oz) so less pressure. It would be virtually impossible for a half full bottle to explode, and it would certainly happen a long time after all the full bottles exploded.

The reason you don't keep a half full bottle is that they end up tasting like crap.
You are free to disagree, but I'm pretty sure I've got a solid theory here. :)

the less surface area in a full bottle means less pressure needed to achieve the required pounds-per-square-inch that stops gas from coming out of the beer.

The half-full bottle has more surface area, so more total gas pressure is requires to achieve the same force-per-square-inch that stops gas from escaping.

Bah.. whatever.... i was good at physics, but hated it. That's why I focused on electricty. :D
 

Walker

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I think we should all just agree that full bottles are better and stop trying to be physicists. :D

Bottle is half full?
Bottle is half empty?
I say the bottle is too damn big.

It's all justbrewit's fault for bringing back an old thread. :)

-walker
 

El Pistolero

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The pressure is even across the entire surface area of the bottle...that holding liquid and that not holding liquid. Respectfully, you do not have a solid theory.

By the way...I'm not guessing here.
 

Walker

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well.. i don't want to argue about it. part of your rebuttal actually matches with my second post and we are in agreement on it, but..... whatever.

cheers.

-walker
 

justbrewit

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yup, its my fault. i just knew that it took 9-13 days to carbonate. thats all i really wanted to say!!

blame it on me, every one else does!! haha
 

Darth Konvel

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Either way, I wouldn't worry about bottle bombs unless you know you added too much priming sugar, or didn't give the bottling bucket an occasional stir.
 

Orfy

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Liquid and Gas will be at the same pressure even if the liquid is less compressible, all parts of the bottle will have equal force applied.

But it is the CO2 that generates the pressure, so the higher the amount of CO2 by weight the greater the pressure.


Any way I'm miffed. I just opened a 12oz test bottle of Cider after 6 days and there is no CO2...bummer!!!!!
 

Walker

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yes, I was wrong about force applied to the glass. it's even all over.

and, yes, I agree with you about the CO2 creating the pressure.

there are at least 4 laws of physics at play here (Henry's, Avogadro's, Boyle's, and Charles').

-walker
 

Pumbaa

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This almost sounds like something that actually needs to be tested. I cant do it at home or SWMBO would kick my ass, maybe I'll set up something in the basement of the firehouse to check it out, only problem is this time of year it gets awefully cold down there, no heat in the basement
 

Orfy

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Surely it would be easy to do if you had the kit, water, sugar ,nutrient and two vessels with gauges on. One nearly full one half full and wait.

I aint got the kit. (Yet)
 

Walker

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Pumbaa said:
This almost sounds like something that actually needs to be tested. I cant do it at home or SWMBO would kick my ass, maybe I'll set up something in the basement of the firehouse to check it out, only problem is this time of year it gets awefully cold down there, no heat in the basement
I'm thinking more along a laboratory experiment. A couple of barometers in the bottles will remove all doubt.

the problem will be finding small barometers, but I think I can ghetto-rig something to show relative pressure instead of absolute pressure.

-walker
 

Walker

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orfy said:
Would that be big bottles or little barometers?
rubber stopper in each bottle. put a small amount of water in a single rubber tube and attach it between the bottles. Let this tube dip down in between.

You will have a water level that comes up each side of the hose evenly when the pressure is balanced. If that water starts to move toward one of the bottles, then the pressure from the other bottle is greater.

Kind of like an airlock of sorts, except you have competeing forces on each side.

-walker
 

Sir Sudster

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Well, since this thread has been resurrected I would like to explain my previous statements. I don't like half empty bottles mainly because I believe they should be empty. I strive most every night to bring mine to this very level regardless of pressures exerted upon me. If a bottle is half empty I firmly believe there is not enough air in the bottle. I take it upon myself to do the right thing and empty it. Buuuurrrpp! nother one bites the dust.

Thank you Gentlemen.
 

justbrewit

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yeah, you'll fine i'm good at bringin back old posts!! i just learned about this site about a week ago, so i'll be goin through all of the old posts that i can find and researching!!
 

Darth Konvel

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Egad, I didn't even notice the age of the original thread :eek:

I like the idea of the tube running between the bottles. Nice and simple.
 
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