Marmike600
Well-Known Member
dgr said:
Holy isht! That was funny!! I have seen some of that from guys at brew pubs. Been told that I don't know a single thing about beer or hops. I always just laugh and carry on.
"Beer Geeks" who don't brew
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Holy isht! That was funny!! I have seen some of that from guys at brew pubs. Been told that I don't know a single thing about beer or hops. I always just laugh and carry on.
I agree that homebrewing has CERTAINLY broadened my horizons and knowledge about beer, and the different flavors, aromas, origins, ingredients, etc.
However, do whiskey/scotch/bourbon aficionados make their own? Most do not as it is illegal to distill without the proper licenses. Do cigar aficionados grow their own tobacco, roll their own leaves, etc.? Not many that I have seen...
Homebrewing is somewhat unique in this aspect, but I don't think that necessarily means someone who doesn't personally brew beer can't be just as knowledgeable about beer as someone who does.
chuckrock
Member
Thank you for the welcome. I may or may not brew someday. I know I don't have the room to do so where I live at the moment. My apartment is too small. Luckily we have a new house coming in a few months.
You have plenty of room to brew- I brewed extract in my kitchen for about a year, and my place is 580sqft. Now we brew all-grain on the patio, and our sqft hasn't increased!
LandoLincoln
Well-Known Member
I'd explain how wrong you are, but you wouldn't understand it.
![Craft A Brew - Safale BE-256 Yeast - Fermentis - Belgian Ale Dry Yeast - For Belgian & Strong Ales - Ingredients for Home Brewing - Beer Making Supplies - [3 Pack]](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51bcKEwQmWL._SL500_.jpg)
All true statements, but just because a non-brewer doesn't know much about the process doesn't make them any less able to describe a beer and enjoy its subtle nuances, even if they don't give that description in terms of how it was brewed.
Also, I don't think my hostility is at all strange. I will get hostile any time people try put down others just because they're not part of some special club. I did compare it to racism only as a measure of how retarded and ignorant the attitude is, not saying it's in any way nearly as bad as racism.
What does that have to do with anything? Where you discuss an issue doesn't change anything about the discussion itself, except maybe the relative proportion of elitists participating in said discussion.
Why?
LandoLincoln
Well-Known Member
Because we're homebrewers, which make us better than them. Duh. Are you really a homebrewer? I think you're going to have to supply us with some credentials.
chuckrock
Member
Landolincoln said:
I think before you start insulting someone's intelligence and ability to comprehend things you should know who you are talking to. Otherwise you are just showing yourself to be a buffoon. I'd take a guess that I am one of the most educated commentors on this thread and certainly have the ability to understand any "theory" you might present. I don't say that to be arrogant or insulting to the other posters, but just as a fact of life.
This crowd is certainly more hostile than the beerforum crowd, where we welcome everyone without trying to insult them or make digs at them.
I have tasted nukebrewer's homebrews and they are fantastically delicious.
I don't think it's elitist to believe that actually studying about something and actually experiencing the making of it makes you better able to understand that something. That's just logical.
In this case, being good or experienced in tasting beer does not elevate one to knowing as much about the beer itself as someone whose actually brewed it. It just means you are good at tasting it.
That said, even someone who hasn't brewed can read all about brewing and have a fairly detailed knowledge of brewing. I wouldn't go so far as to say they know as much as everyone in the hobby though. Because assuredly there are brewers who brew with very little knowledge and there are even more expert brewers in the homebrewing hobby. And I know from personal experience that even with years of study and practice there is plenty left to be learned.
The bottom line is the question of whether we question the beer itself? It sounds like people are confusing "The Beer" with "Tasting Beer" and "Making Beer". They are not the same things.
In this case, being good or experienced in tasting beer does not elevate one to knowing as much about the beer itself as someone whose actually brewed it. It just means you are good at tasting it.
That said, even someone who hasn't brewed can read all about brewing and have a fairly detailed knowledge of brewing. I wouldn't go so far as to say they know as much as everyone in the hobby though. Because assuredly there are brewers who brew with very little knowledge and there are even more expert brewers in the homebrewing hobby. And I know from personal experience that even with years of study and practice there is plenty left to be learned.
The bottom line is the question of whether we question the beer itself? It sounds like people are confusing "The Beer" with "Tasting Beer" and "Making Beer". They are not the same things.
The elitist attitude always baffles me. Making beer is really easy. Its a 4 ingredient soup that you dump yeast in. Seriously, making toll house cookies is more difficult. The hardest part of home brewing is having patience. Sometime I feel like we need to get over ourselves.
LandoLincoln
Well-Known Member
Well, if you were a homebrewer, you'd be able to understand when people were just messing with you, but you are not one of the elite. Maybe one day you will be counted as one of us. I have my doubts.
LandoLincoln
Well-Known Member
Who has an elitist attitude? I don't see anybody with an elitist attitude in this thread.
This will certainly endear you to all of us. Seems to me you came over here looking for conflict.
*Edit - but whatever. I have no issues with non-brewers. That would be stupid. I was one once.
Ivypunx
Well-Known Member
No one said making beer is hard. Making Very good beer is a practiced skill. But making beer is not hard. People are saying that brewing beer gives you a better perspective on beer than some one who is just a craft beer geek will have. Its not saying that some one cant have a outstanding and trained pallet and be able to detect all kinds of subtle tastes in beer. However, after brewing you get a more trained and experienced opinion as to what adding different hops in different times and amounts can do. How different grains affect the beer in different ways. Brewing beer is the same with all the many metaphors people have posted on this thread. Insider information always gives you a better perspective.
I appreciate your well reasoned post. I think we agree that making beer is a skill but not one that is insurmountable to the average person. Where I disagree is that it is not really the act of brewing that trains your pallet. It is the act of tasting combined with the knowledge of ingredients that allows you to identify the details of the beers flavor. A brewer might taste more beers and therefore have more opportunity to train their pallet or they might have less opportunities than the guy who's hobby is solely focused drinking beers to educate his pallet. The metaphors go both ways. We can all identify the flavor of burnt toast without actually burning the toast.
To each his own. Clearly there is more than one way to be a beer geek.
I was on your side, until those two posts. You should try taking your own advice and not insulting someone's intelligence without knowing who you're talking to.
Nightshade
Well-Known Member
Let me switch it around for you. How insulted do you think the beerforum crowd would be if I posted this over there?:
"And you know what, i cant think of one reason why drinking beer would be more impressive than brewing a beer. It is a nice vice for some, enjoy jt....but it doesnt make you special or smarter. Unless you drank that anarchy ale or this black allagash i just finished....then you know nothing more than i can know. I think before you start insulting someone's intelligence and ability to comprehend things you should know who you are talking to. Otherwise you are just showing yourself how this is the story all about how my life got flipped-turned upside down. And I'd like to take a minute so just sit right there, I'll tell you how I became the prince of a town called Bel Air.
This crowd is certainly more hostile than the homebrewtalk crowd, where we welcome everyone without trying to insult them or make digs at them."
"And you know what, i cant think of one reason why drinking beer would be more impressive than brewing a beer. It is a nice vice for some, enjoy jt....but it doesnt make you special or smarter. Unless you drank that anarchy ale or this black allagash i just finished....then you know nothing more than i can know. I think before you start insulting someone's intelligence and ability to comprehend things you should know who you are talking to. Otherwise you are just showing yourself how this is the story all about how my life got flipped-turned upside down. And I'd like to take a minute so just sit right there, I'll tell you how I became the prince of a town called Bel Air.
This crowd is certainly more hostile than the homebrewtalk crowd, where we welcome everyone without trying to insult them or make digs at them."
Hi all, there's lots of opinions floating around, and as someone on the 'sister' forum who is interested in getting into brewing but currently lacks the time(or is supposedly too lazy, haha), I thought I'd add one more perspective.
I'm far from an expert, but have been enjoying craft beer as a hobby from a consumer standpoint for over a decade. I admittedly know little about the intricacies of the many different processes/ingredients for the unlimited different styles out there, although I appreciate and respect all of them.
In my opinion brewing can only further your current knowledge on beer, everything from the process to finished product. The act and experience of doing is always very powerful when learning a subject. I truly agree with this philosophy, but I disagree with - a consumer only's knowledge, experience, and opinion being worthless.
I find it hard to believe someone knows more about beer in totality than I because they brewed one batch of beer(maybe they do though?). Someone who has brewed the same or similar IPA and only that for a decade will no doubt have a lot of knowledge on that one style within a style, but are they a pro in regards to all beer(maybe the beer isn't even good, or maybe it's fantastic!)? Should the head brewer at one of the best craft breweries around tell all of you that your opinions aren't worth a d@mn because you don't have access to the same ingredients and products, or do you really think your opinion should still matter?
My personal opinion is beer is brewed to be enjoyed, whether consumed by a master brewer or grateful consumer. Everyone who enjoys the hobby has their own experience, thoughts and opinions from the extremely limited to the craft geniuses. I'm no beer genius, but I love a good brew and gladly enjoy one with anyone willing to pull up a chair.
For anyone with different opinions, fine by me - to each their own...
I'm far from an expert, but have been enjoying craft beer as a hobby from a consumer standpoint for over a decade. I admittedly know little about the intricacies of the many different processes/ingredients for the unlimited different styles out there, although I appreciate and respect all of them.
In my opinion brewing can only further your current knowledge on beer, everything from the process to finished product. The act and experience of doing is always very powerful when learning a subject. I truly agree with this philosophy, but I disagree with - a consumer only's knowledge, experience, and opinion being worthless.
I find it hard to believe someone knows more about beer in totality than I because they brewed one batch of beer(maybe they do though?). Someone who has brewed the same or similar IPA and only that for a decade will no doubt have a lot of knowledge on that one style within a style, but are they a pro in regards to all beer(maybe the beer isn't even good, or maybe it's fantastic!)? Should the head brewer at one of the best craft breweries around tell all of you that your opinions aren't worth a d@mn because you don't have access to the same ingredients and products, or do you really think your opinion should still matter?
My personal opinion is beer is brewed to be enjoyed, whether consumed by a master brewer or grateful consumer. Everyone who enjoys the hobby has their own experience, thoughts and opinions from the extremely limited to the craft geniuses. I'm no beer genius, but I love a good brew and gladly enjoy one with anyone willing to pull up a chair.
For anyone with different opinions, fine by me - to each their own...
this.They are just lazy beer geeks....
i enjoy spending the time to actuall brew the beer. it's just like car nerds- you can hand over a chunk of cash and someone will hand you a sweet car... or you can build it yourself. there's a certain satisfaction to the craft that some people just don't care about. they're only concerned with the end product. i consider myself a brewing nerd and a beer nerd. i like the process and the result. beer geeks who don't brew just want to drink different beers
Not to go all wikipedia-y on this thread, but ...
"A snob is a person who believes in the existence of an equation between status and human worth.[1] In other words, a snob values another person primarily on the basis of the level of social rank that such other person holds in society. This implies that a snob judges who is allowed into the snob's circle of acquaintances and friends primarily on the basis of the status of such candidate. One is consequentially highly likely to lose a snob's affection and attention soon after one has lost one's status.
The term snob is sometimes also used for a person who believe that some people are inherently inferior to him or her for any one of a variety of reasons, including real or supposed intellect, wealth, education, ancestry, power, physical strength, class, taste, beauty, nationality, fame, extreme success of a family member or friend, etc. Often this form of snobbery reflects the snob's personal attributes. For example, a common snobbery of the affluent is the belief that wealth is either the cause or result of superiority, or both.[citation needed]"
The word geek is a slang term originally used to describe odd or non-mainstream people, with different connotations ranging from "an expert or enthusiast" to "a person heavily interested in a hobby", with a general pejorative meaning of "a peculiar or otherwise dislikable person, esp[ecially] one who is perceived to be overly intellectual".[1]
Although often considered as a pejorative, the term is also often used self-referentially without malice or as a source of pride. Its meaning has evolved to connote "someone who is interested in a subect (usually intellectual or complex) for its own sake."
So - beer geek = good. Beer snob = bad.
"A snob is a person who believes in the existence of an equation between status and human worth.[1] In other words, a snob values another person primarily on the basis of the level of social rank that such other person holds in society. This implies that a snob judges who is allowed into the snob's circle of acquaintances and friends primarily on the basis of the status of such candidate. One is consequentially highly likely to lose a snob's affection and attention soon after one has lost one's status.
The term snob is sometimes also used for a person who believe that some people are inherently inferior to him or her for any one of a variety of reasons, including real or supposed intellect, wealth, education, ancestry, power, physical strength, class, taste, beauty, nationality, fame, extreme success of a family member or friend, etc. Often this form of snobbery reflects the snob's personal attributes. For example, a common snobbery of the affluent is the belief that wealth is either the cause or result of superiority, or both.[citation needed]"
The word geek is a slang term originally used to describe odd or non-mainstream people, with different connotations ranging from "an expert or enthusiast" to "a person heavily interested in a hobby", with a general pejorative meaning of "a peculiar or otherwise dislikable person, esp[ecially] one who is perceived to be overly intellectual".[1]
Although often considered as a pejorative, the term is also often used self-referentially without malice or as a source of pride. Its meaning has evolved to connote "someone who is interested in a subect (usually intellectual or complex) for its own sake."
So - beer geek = good. Beer snob = bad.
It would seem we got way off track from the original point of the thread. The OP made it clear, after a clarifying post, that:
I'll concede the point that brewing may give one a better understanding of beer than the geekiest of non-brewing beer geeks, but that's not what the OP was saying. What I get from that post is that the OP thinks non-brewers should somehow be limited in how they choose to enjoy they beer that was, ironically enough, brewed for the very people the OP is referring to.
chuckrock
Member
First, very funny end to the reversal.
But i came in here and was immediately told i wasnt capable of understanding something. That is pretty hostile.
Anyway, i wasnt looking for any conflict but i stand by my point that just having brewed beer doesnt make someone smarter than another who only drinks it.
chuckrock said:
For reference, typically only the debate threads on this forum get hostile (and that section comes with a disclaimer). The whole site is moderated pretty closely. This just seems to be a galvanizing topic.
On point #2, I think there are a whole lot of "despair" posters that cover your point nicely. My favorite is "Persistence - there's no end to what you can't accomplish if you try hard enough." Doing doesn't mean doing it right (ask any master plumber, electrician, etc. about the hack jobs they see from DIYers). However, there's a limit to what people can understand when that understanding is purely academic. This goes for brewing and non brewing beer geeks alike. Until you've done hop and malt experiments, tried specific yeast comparisons, etc. there is a limit to comprehension.
None of that has a lot to do with enjoying a good beer - ability to smell and taste is like being able to hear music vs. being tone deaf. You can be a solid brewer but have crappy taste, people rag on BMC but they make billions, etc.
TheSmithsEra
Well-Known Member
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LOL!!!! this thread is getting more ridiculous every day. We got people quoting definitions out of a dictionary, quoting the thread starter for relevance and we have people arguing about the right to post on here.
Yes I don't think you should be arguing with brewers about brewing if you're not a brewer, but I only have one bottle of homebrew left!!!!! So who cares!!!
Yes I don't think you should be arguing with brewers about brewing if you're not a brewer, but I only have one bottle of homebrew left!!!!! So who cares!!!
I think it started pretty ridiculous.
You should check the funny things people say about beer thread -I swear that 3 full pages were devoted to quitting smoking.
Good times!
