Beer Gas & Pale Ale

[turbosl2]

I just swapped my setup over to a 75%N 25%CO2 setup. I also put a stout nozzle on. I just got the keg home (1/6), tapped it, turned the gas to about 25 PSI and its pure foam. I read running between 25-30 is ideal to force the beer through the small restrictor disc. I turned it down to 18 and it still seems very high and foamy. Do i have to run it this high or can i turn it down and still get that nice full bodied beer? I am not sure if its all foam from traveling or because its to high of pressure.
Any help is appreciated

 

[Brewerforlife]

What kind of beer? Guinness style or a reg. carbed beer 2.2-2.6+ vol.??

 

[Brewerforlife]

75N/25co2 blend is Stout gas or G-mix and is intended for use with nitro-infused beers, such as stouts. These blends won't work for regularly carbed beers (those with more than 2.0 volumes co2) Using this blend on normal carbed beers cause's it too lose carbonation in the keg, causing it too go flat, due too lack of adequate co2 head pressure too maintain the higher volumes need with normal beer, even at 40+ psi.

 

[turbosl2]

What kind of beer? Guiness style or a reg. carbed beer 2.2-2.6+ vol.??

Its a small microbrewery (mad jack) pale ale.

 

[LLBeanJ]

To make it work you will need to bleed off CO2 from the keg repeatedly until the carb level of the beer is much lower than it is now. A typically carbonated ale is waaaaayyyyy too carbonated to pour out of a nitro setup.

 

[Brewerforlife]

This may help: http://www.draughtquality.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/DQM_Full_Final.pdf

 

[Brewerforlife]

As LLBeanJ said, The only way too dispense this pale ale with this gas and faucet, is too bleed it off till your near 1.8-2.0 volumes. It will be a flatter, lower carbed beer, not the most desireable in a hoppy pale (imo).
I would probably hook the straight co2 back up and run this keg thru a standard faucet!!

 

[turbosl2]

hmm, this is not good. I have no CO2 anymore, this is it. How do i bleed the carbonation off quickly, i have a party tommorow. What pressure should i run the regulator at after i bleed it off?

 

[LLBeanJ]

If you're in a bind for time and you don't want to serve flat beer to your guests, you can drop the regulator pressure down to ~12 and remove the restrictor plate from inside the faucet nozzle and it should pour like a normal faucet. The downside is that since you're pushing with gas that is only 25% CO2, it will eventually go flat, but it should be fine to get you by for the party.

 

[Brewerforlife]

.

Even at 35F at 40 psi will be only 1.5 volumes


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[turbosl2]

i see, the whole idea for this change was to have a nice creamy beer ready for tommorow. I have turned the gas off and pulled the relief pin on the regulator to relieve pressure. I was aware of the tail end beer due to only have 25% CO2. Should i put a clip on the pressure relieft pin to hold it open overnight, or for a certain amount of hours. I have no idea what the carbination level is now to determine where i need to be.

 

[LLBeanJ]

You could clip it open, but you risk going too far and having flat beer that won't have any head on it, even when served on nitro at 30 PSI. Here's what I would do... Set the regulator to 30 PSI and leave the gas shut off to the keg. Purge the keg about once per hour and each time, try to pour some beer and if it still foams excessively, you're still not there yet.

Each purge cycle should go like this:
1) Purge the keg
2) Turn on the gas (you need to test it at serving pressure, I.e., 30 PSI)
3) See how it pours
4) If it still foams too much, turn off the gas and purge again, then wait an hour and do it all over. You'll know you're done when you can get a decent pour out of it. This will waste a bit of nitro, but if the keg is full, it won't be that bad.

Keep in mind, that even when the beergas setup is working properly, and the carb level is correct, you'll still get a lot of foam. I believe a proper Guinness pour requires two pours, the first of which is almost all foam, then a 100 second pause, followed by the finishing pour. This is consistent with how my nitro setup pours, as the glass is almost all foam after the first pour. Also keep in mind that nitro beers are about as close to flat as you can get without them actually being flat, so while you'll be drinking beer that has a nice creamy head from the nitro, the beer will essentially be flat like a Guinness. Are your guests going to be okay with that?

 

[turbosl2]

I appreciate the info, I have been purging every hour. Should I shake it up to build carbonation? Sometimes after an hr there is just a little puff. I suspect some of the foam has to do with the keg not aclimating to my kegorator temperature, I just got it home 5 hrs ago, it was chilled but not sure how much

 

[LLBeanJ]

Shaking would probably help speed things up.

 

[turbosl2]

Ok I will do that

 

[turbosl2]

Still no good. I been bleeding and shaking. Turns out if I reduce regulator pressure to 11psig it pours fine, but doesnt seem like alot on nitro in the beer.

 

[LLBeanJ]

The stout faucet requires high pressure and some carbonation to create that distinctive creamy head. However, too little carbonation and there'll be no head and too much carbonation will result in foam city. In my experience there's a very fine line that divides success from failure with a beergas setup and it can take some time to dial in. Keep bleeding any purging, you'll get there. If it's going slow, clip it open and let it outgas overnight.

 

[turbosl2]

Ok, I will pop it open overnight.

 

[LLBeanJ]

Also, the beer can not absorb nitro. It's only there to push the beer at high pressure. The pressure, combined with slight carbonation and the restrictor plate in the faucet are what creates the creamy head. The purpose of the 25% CO2 is to maintain what little carbonation is in the beer without overcarbing it. At 30 PSI at any given temp, the level of carbonation will be equivalent to 7.5 PSI of 100% CO2 at the same temp (.25 x 30 = 7.5).

 

[turbosl2]

That makes sense, I am learning alot here, why when I set the regulator to 11 or 12 does it pour nice? Without the nitro head. Does nitro require that much more pressure to drive it out?

 

[turbosl2]

I am going to close the relief and try this again

 

[turbosl2]

Seems to be better, beer is def flatter, still tastes good. I tried regulator at 22 psig ans first glass all foa, second glass 80% foam. At 22psi its not very creamy. I keep shaking thevkeg but its really not bleeding alot like before. Although I am not really picking it up and shaking, just rocking back and forth.

 

[LLBeanJ]

Sounds like you're making progress, since the beer is getting flatter.

That makes sense, I am learning alot here, why when I set the regulator to 11 or 12 does it pour nice? Without the nitro head. Does nitro require that much more pressure to drive it out?

Basically, yes. Now that the beer is lower in CO2, it will pour nice through the stout faucet at 10-12 PSI but you need to push it quite a bit faster, 25-30 PSI, to create the head and it's still too carbonated to do so without excessive foaming. It can be hard to tell right off, however, when you've got the carb level right, as the initial pour should be almost all foam, though it should take a bit short of 2 minutes to consolidate at the top of the glass. If it takes longer, then still too much carbonation is in the beer and you need to keep purging.

Watch this video and notice how the first pour is basically a glass full of foam, but then it consolidates into a nice thick head after a short time...

 

[kal]

To make it work you will need to bleed off CO2 from the keg repeatedly until the carb level of the beer is much lower than it is now. A typically carbonated ale is waaaaayyyyy too carbonated to pour out of a nitro setup.

+1.

When I first set up my two nitro taps with 70/30 beer gas, I took a keg of Irish Ale (homebrew) that I had carb'ed and was serving with C02. It was a fairly low carb level but I still only got nothing but foam through the nitro tap. I warmed it up to room temp to de-gas and had to even stir it a lot to get the C02 out. Then things started to pour right.

So when I make something that's going to go on beer gas I stopped pre-carb it at all with C02. I just hook it up to the beer gas and wait as there's already some residual CO2 from fermentation.

I'm about 5-6 kegs into using the nitro taps and now I am starting to pre-carb just a little bit: I have a 6-keg conditioning fridge at just above freezing. It has a 5# CO2 tank in it that I can use to pre-carb all my beers that are served on 100% CO2 - if it's a nitro beer I'll just leave the gas hooked up for 3-5 days instead of the usual ~2 weeks it takes to completely carb. This helps lower the lag time between the time the nitro keg gets put on tap and when it's ready to pour perfectly. This is really the only thing I don't like about nitro: I don't have a way to immediately put a new keg on tap when one blows (like I do with kegs served with CO2). I suppose I could put another 5# tank/regulator/hoses in the conditioning fridge but that would eat up a lot of room...

Kal

 

[turbosl2]

I appreciate the advice from everyone. The beer worked out all day today. I think a stout would be alot better but this will do for now.