Weissbier Bee Cave Brewery Bavarian Hefeweizen

[tronnyjenkins]

Just pulled my first fully carbed pint of this...
New kegging setup, new temperature controlled fermentation fridge.
Used only DME and had to sub hops (can't remember the name, similar AA to HH)

One tasty beer!

 

[mccumath]

Tronnyjenkins,
Sounds pretty similar to what i have been up to! Just finished my temp controller, mounted to my fridge and installed a new keg setup!

How long has yours been sitting around? I kegged mine at 10 days, and force carbed the last 2. Still tastes pretty green, just wondering where you are at on time.

Thanks!

 

[tronnyjenkins]

I kegged five days ago after the ten days of fermentation was up. Since it was my first time kegging, I was a bit impatient so I tried the shake method. Basically I set it to 30 psi and disconnected the keg to shake it up for about 10 minutes. Naturally it needs to settle after all of that, so I left it in the fridge for a couple days. Then I burped the keg and dispensed at about 10 psi. It really sped things along, but after that first sample I set it to 14 psi and left it alone. It is really tasty now.

FYI... Next time I will do the 14 psi set it and forget it method and leave it for a week. I wasted lots of co2 playing around with it, but I wanted some instant gratification. Also, it did taste really different after being fully carbed.

 

[mccumath]

So I let this ferment for 10 days at 64-66 degrees, crash cooled in the keg for 2 days, then force carbonated for 2 days, and it has been in the keg (42 degrees), carbonated for 1 week. Followed the brewing guidelines of the OP to the letter, using the same ingredients except for the yeast (Safbrew WB-06 dry). OG 1.055, FG 1.014.

I have been sampling this every day for the last few days, and when first drinking it, I get a lot of nice wheat flavor up front, a little banana flavor (at least what I believe is banana), and then the aftertaste comes and has a strange, semi-bitter bite to it. Then it finishes with a super sweet, overripe fruit flavor (not appealing). Hard to explain. I guess I am still new to determining the flavors that some beers have, but I don't think it tastes like cloves (or any type of hefe I have tried in the past)... At no time did my beer show any signs of infection. I thought I understood what cloves in beer tasted like, but this does not taste like anything I have had in the past. Does my experience sound like the normal flavor profile for hefeweizen? I have looked at the BJCP guidelines for cat 15A Weizens, but it still does not answer my questions. What do you guys think? Sound appropriate for this style?

Sorry for the newbie questions, still learning the wonderful world of beer. Just trying to determine if there was a mistake on my part, or if that is the actual flavor profile of the beer/yeast itself.

 

[tronnyjenkins]

Well, having tried a weizen myself using a dry yeast, I can say that the results were not great. I contacted the company (mine was actually Fermentis) and they suggested-

"We found that adding some glucose helps, I have attached an article that describes a mashing procedure to increase the glucose/maltose ratio in the wort. This is a German process since they cannot add glucose directly to the wort. To increase the clovy flavor you really need to increase the concentration of the precursors (ferulic acid) a lower mashing temperature will help with this too."

I never ended up trying the method, or raising the fermentation temp as I had been told by someone else who used the dry yeast.

Another point of interest is that your bitter aftertaste flavor reminds me of my beers before I made a couple of improvements to my brewing setup. For a while I was using a thermometer I thought was accurate... guess what? It was reading about 8 degrees F high. So that means I had more fermentable sugars than I needed. That could have been part of it as well. My other addition it seems you have already tried. I have found that the fermentation temperature is of utmost importance if you live somewhere warm. I am in Houston and every brew I did before my temperature controller had that sharp taste.


My suggestions would be to make sure that your thermometer is accurate for mashing and fermenting, make sure the ambient temp around the fermenter is about 5 degrees lower than you are shooting for, and use a liquid yeast :rockin:

 

[mccumath]

Tronny,

Thanks for your suggestions. I was kinda bummed, but I am really not so sure I can gag any more of this down. Gave some away today, and if the guy likes it, he can have the rest of the 3.5 or so gallons that are left. I hate to see beer go to waste. I just recently purchased another thermometer that is "calibrate-able" for lack of a better term. Was wondering about my thermometer too. Guess great minds think alike. Also, I was going by the sticky thermometer on my primary, and it indicated 64-66 degrees, while my basement temp is around 62 degrees now that fall has arrived. I think I will have to scrap this batch for now, maybe try again. Otherwise, Hefe's may have to wait for when I have a better fermentation chamber.

Questions that is off topic a bit - what thermometer are you using? I have looked at several, and just picked up a round faced, non-digital, regular thermometer that can be re-calibrated (i.e. boil water, insert in water, loosen nut on back and re-tighten at boiling temp (which at this altitude is around 209 degrees, if I remember correctly).

Next up is a Blue Moon clone with White Labs liquid yeast. Have not used this yeast before (usually the activator wyeast packs), figured I would try something new. No more dry yeast from now on unless I have a yeast dilemma, for which I always keep some spare dry yeast around.

 

[STAD]

Ferment 10 days at 68 degrees then crash cool & keg.

I've been out of the brewing game for a while, and was wondering what happens after this is kegged. I am thinking about doing this as my first all-grain (good idea?). Anyway, a lot of these recipes seem to get kegged fairly soon. When does aging occur? Is it kegged and hooked up to CO2 at room temperature so that it can carbonate and age concurrently? I always thought beer needed at least 4-6 weeks to be drinkable.

 

[tronnyjenkins]

I have had to waste more than a couple batches... Brewing is a tough science when you lack the right equipment!
As to thermometers, I am still using the same one that reads 8 high. (Taylor Tru-temp from Target). I checked it with my Johnson Controls temp controller to make sure I am correcting it properly.
I have one of those little adjustable ones, but mine didn't have much of a range. My plan is to either buy a traditional lab type, or there are a couple more expensive ones suitable for brewing. I bet you will have better luck with the liquid yeast as long as your mash is on target- 62 ambient should work.


As to the kegging question- and I am NOWHERE near an expert on this- but, I've heard from some folks that Hefes are typically drank young. I don't think it would necessarily degrade or improve much if you waited 4-6 weeks.

 

[Hoosierbilly]

14.5 gallons wort + 3 smackpaks + no blow off tube = a learning experience

 

[Hoosierbilly]

forgot the pic

 

[Backslider]

I have a noob question, it's probably been answered in various forms many times in this thread but I'm too lazy to read all 67 pages. I got about 20 in before deciding to ask..

Anyway, here is my water profile. Can I brew this simply by diluting with 80% RO water or do I need to make some changes? This will be my third AG batch.


Before Dilution:
Na: 16
Ca: 52
Mg: 13
Cl: 25
SO4-S: 14
HCO3: 151


After Dilution:
Na: 2
Ca: 10
Mg: 3
Cl: 5
SO4-2: 3
HCO3: 30

I brew on the stove top and for AG I have an easier time doing 3.5g batches so this is based on 4g of RO and 1g of tap water.

I've pretty much jumped into AG brewing right off the bat, and there are a few things I'm having trouble getting my head around fully (water chemistry, pH) and would appreciate any pro input I could get. I'm a huge fan of a simple Bavarian Hefe and this looks tasty. Got everything ready to go for Wednesday but I want to be sure my water is acceptable.

Thanks all!

 

[JMass]

This is what I found on my computer for this Hefe. It must be what I used at one point.

Mash Water / Total water (ppm):
Ca: 68 / 53
Mg: 13 / 10
Na: 57 / 23
Cl: 200 / 93
SO4: 55 / 82
CaCO3: 5 / 5

RA (mash only): -51 (1 to 6 SRM)
Cl to SO4 (total water): 1.14 (Balanced)

 

[Backslider]

Does this look a little better?

Ca: 85
Mg: 3
Na: 3
Cl: 69
SO4: 95
CaC03: 25

RA: -37
Cl to So4 1:1.37 (Balanced)


I'm a noob, just figuring all this stuff out with help from you guys of course. Sorry if this should be posted somewhere else -

Also, this only matters in my mash water, correct? Using RO water to sparge would be ok?

This is with the same 80% dilution with RO and adding 1.25g of gypsum and 1g of Calcium Chloride to 2gallons of mash water. As I said I'm really new at this, so if I'm completely wrong and going to brew schlack or something please let me know!

 

[bergman1118]

I would highly recommend using the EZ Water Calculator, if you aren't already:

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...w_ognpNWppQnHECbA&sig2=hppmw6yXjzWZimqDBaW4LQ


I would recommend bumping up your Mg to between 10-20 ppm. It can be important for yeast metabolism, apparently acting as a co-factor in some yeast fermentation reaction.

Usually to get the ppm you want you need to treat all of your water the same.. myself, I usually add the salts to the mash, and then to the boil (usually you're adding more to the boil, depends on what you're using to calculate salt additions). My beers haven't suffered as a consequence of this approach.

If you are really concerned about your sparge water, get a pH meter and see what your runoff pH is. It should be below 5.8 to avoid tannin extraction, but I've heard a little higher is fine (somewhere around 6).

I think you'll be fine with RO water to sparge, personally.. my tap water is soft, but the pH is a little above 7 (something like 7.4). When I made this beer, I didn't treat it (and generally I don't, other than to add Ca, Mg, and adjust the Cl:SO4) and I ended up winning third in the wheat category at a local competition. Now, your water's residual alkalinity will affect how the mash will resist changes to pH - I can't remember what mine is, but I believe it's such that the high pH of my tap water doesn't affect the mash pH too drastically. Neither I nor anyone else has detected harsh tannins in my beer, so I don't worry about it.

To each his own.. but unless you know what you're doing with your water (which isn't too hard with some understanding), sometimes it's best to leave it alone and RDWHAHB.

 

[Backslider]

I've been using John Palmer's spreadsheet, pretty much the same thing.

If I use a yeast nutrient doesn't that contain everything yeast need to be happy? I was aware that magnesium was important for good fermentation, but I thought a nutrient addition would take care of this.

What I will most likely do is determine the additions needed for the full 5 gallons, and maybe just build from RO. I do 3.5 gallon batches - after grain absorbtion and boil loss I end up fermenting about 3.5ish gallons.

Would it be ok to make all my additions to 5 gallons of RO water to bring it to spec before even starting to brew?

Thanks for the advice, sorry if this is an inappropriate place for this conversation. I have very hard water and don't think it would make good pale beers without some changes.

 

[bergman1118]

If you're using yeast nutrient, the magnesium shouldn't really matter. Depending on which nutrient you use, it should have some magnesium sulfate in it. I think calcium is more important anyway, but I don't have the reference to back this up.

Yeah, your best bet is to treat all of your water the same - mash water, sparge water, and any top up water you may use (sounds like none in your case).

 

[Tizzomes]

I opened my first bottle tonight and was awesome! At a week and a half the carb level was good but will only get better.I got a hint if banana at first then honey at the end.
This was my first all grain batch and DAM what a deference. Definitely a easy drinkin brew anyone could enjoy.

Thanks

 

[Backslider]

Thanks for the help bergman. I brewed last night, just hitting the point where everything goes flawlessly (my 3rd AG batch, 5th batch all together.)

Been fermenting about 9 hours and already bubbling away. Smells delicious to me already.

I finally ended up going with

Ca: 51
Mg: 5
Na: 42
Cl: 90
SO4: 109

RA: -40

I already think this is going to be my best beer yet - hope to confirm that in a few weeks.

 

[Backslider]

One more question:

I brewed almost a week ago. During the first couple of days of fermentation my temps were at 61, after major bubbling died down I moved it to a 68-69 area.

After 5 days I'm still getting some sulfur smell, although it's definitely died down. I've read that this is common with Weihenstephan yeast but thought the sulfur smell would diminish after a couple of days.

Reason for concern? If the smell doesn't settle out should I bottle anyway?

 

[tgleaso]

I am sure this is a pretty noob question Looking at the recipe I see german wheat and german pils. I cannot to seem to locate those specific grains at least on midwest supplie sand an few other sights. Can i get a little help on this one please?

 

[mistercameron]

I am sure this is a pretty noob question Looking at the recipe I see german wheat and german pils. I cannot to seem to locate those specific grains at least on midwest supplie sand an few other sights. Can i get a little help on this one please?

If you are intent on doing all German ingredients, keep looking. Otherwise, sometimes you just have to make due with what what you have access to.

 

[bergman1118]

Backslider - this is totally normal. I bottled while it still smelled like sulfur and it was fine. Beers in bulk (I.e. in your fermenter) will smell different than an individual bottle, taking off the yeast cake will help, and conditioning mellows out the sulfur aroma, if there is any after you bottle.

 

[EdWort]

I am sure this is a pretty noob question Looking at the recipe I see german wheat and german pils. I cannot to seem to locate those specific grains at least on midwest supplie sand an few other sights. Can i get a little help on this one please?

Like mistercameron said, you can make the Hefe with domestic malt and it will be fine, but fresh German malt makes the best authentic Hefeweizen.

Both www.austinhomebrew.com and www.brewmasterswarehouse.com have German malts.

Some German brands are weyermann, durst, and bestmalz.

 

[mcbethenstein]

Continuing on the "how your beer changes in the bottle" mindset... Does anyone have any notes on how your hefe tasted at bottling then how it tasted after conditioning? I am on my 5th & 6th batch (a consecutive 3 gal batch brew day) trying to really figure out how to get the best hefe. Last night we bottled both, and even though the airlock blowoff was very banana-y there was very little of that flavor in the samples. Both samples were very grainy, and almost metallic, color was great, and after the CO2 cleared away, the nose was pleasant. I know we drank samples at bottling, but I don't remember how they compared to the final product in the past. I have a short memory. A perfect hefe is my unicorn.... I keep chasing it, but just when I think I've got it, it slips away.

 

[EdWort]

I keg mine and I wait for about 10 days after hooking up gas at 12 psi and I get a wonderful banana nose from it from the beginning to weeks later. It's best after the CO2 has worked its magic AFTER being carbonated. I can tell the difference between a "green" hefe and one that is mature and ready for quaffing.

 

[althea]

Checkt out this link: http://www.brewmasterswarehouse.com/brewery/6783aced/bee-cave-brewery

It's all queued up as a recipe to order. You'll just need to get priming sugar and anything else that you may want. I have the Dunkelweizen in the primary right now.

The IPA is good too, I've had really good luck with his recipes.

 

[mcbethenstein]

Ed, what type of water do you use? I am using a solid recipe, water is one of my factors that I have been changing.

 

[EdWort]

Ed, what type of water do you use? I am using a solid recipe, water is one of my factors that I have been changing.

I use my filtered tap water that comes from Lake Travis. It makes good beer for me.

 

[mcbethenstein]

I use my filtered tap water that comes from Lake Travis. It makes good beer for me.

Do you add any additions to your filtered water? I'm using RO filtered tap water, and have tried the recipe with only gypsum, and this last one was with CaCl, as Gordon strong recommends in his brewing better beer.

 

[EdWort]

Do you add any additions to your filtered water? I'm using RO filtered tap water, and have tried the recipe with only gypsum, and this last one was with CaCl, as Gordon strong recommends in his brewing better beer.

I will sometimes add Fivestar 5.2 buffer to my mash when I remember, but that is it.