Weissbier Bee Cave Brewery Bavarian Hefeweizen

[Homercidal]

Ed, since you are on here right now do you have any insights for me, it was fantastic for 2 weeks and now pretty skunky. Is that just the way wheats are?

That is NOT the way wheats are. If it's skunky, that could indicate that it got light struck. Did you have the fermenter or bottles out in the sunlight?

Generally wheat beers have a short life, but they are not usually skunky, and by short life I'm talking tasting stale. 3 weeks is not too young, and definitely not too old!

Pay attention to how much sun or flourescent light the beer gets during and after fermentation. Also watch for oxidation after fermentation, especially during bottling.

 

[bergman1118]

That is NOT the way wheats are. If it's skunky, that could indicate that it got light struck. Did you have the fermenter or bottles out in the sunlight?

Generally wheat beers have a short life, but they are not usually skunky, and by short life I'm talking tasting stale. 3 weeks is not too young, and definitely not too old!

Pay attention to how much sun or flourescent light the beer gets during and after fermentation. Also watch for oxidation after fermentation, especially during bottling.

+1 - I just cracked open a bottle from a batch I brewed in March (sat at room temperature), and it was fine. Not as good as it was fresh, but definitely not skunky or undrinkable whatsoever.

 

[mcbethenstein]

Ok, here's the additional info. Plastic bucket fermenter and brown bottles. Both in our walk in pantry. There is an incandescent light in there that gets turned on a few times a day, but switched right back off. The temp in there is between 68-78 (depending on time of year). I'm pretty certain sanitation is not my issue. I did use .12 lbs of acid malt and .25 lbs aromatic malt as suggested in a franziskaner clone recipe.
The taste is not really skunky, but more sulphury and all the banana character died. It's still drinkable, barely though.

 

[mcbethenstein]

Anybody in the Milwaukee area? I could drop off a bottle for a taste analysis... I really can't pin this down and it's driving me nuts!

 

[EdWort]

I did use .12 lbs of acid malt and .25 lbs aromatic malt as suggested in a franziskaner clone recipe.
The taste is not really skunky, but more sulphury and all the banana character died. It's still drinkable, barely though.

Interesting. That will make a different beer.

That sulphury smell can come from yeast autolysis which can happen if you let a batch go on in the primary too long.

 

[CidahMastah]

Interesting. That will make a different beer.

That sulphury smell can come from yeast autolysis which can happen if you let a batch go on in the primary too long.

that would take a fair amount of time on the yeast thought correct? I mean I would think at least 3-4 weeks (I would think much more than that).

 

[bergman1118]

Autolysis gives more of an umami flavor (savory - think chicken noodle soup), and it's pretty difficult to achieve in most cases. I have left beers on the yeast cake for 3 months with no detectable autolysis.. I don't see how this situation would be that different. I could be wrong, but I'm doubtful that the yeast strain would make THAT much of a difference in how fast you get autolysis. I would bet money that 3 weeks won't get you autolysis, even with a hefe. But this is probably a conversation for another thread.. and there are many devoted to this topic.

 

[Diesel48]

Drinking the hefe right now. It appears darker than what it really is in the picture. Is a straw yellow color. I fermented with WLP300 because the LHBS does not carry Wyeast 3068 Weihenstephan. Comparing this beer to one I had at a bar I do not hardly have any banana flavor. Is this beer supposed to have a bit of banana? It came out really smooth but I thought there would have been a little bit more flavor from the yeast. I did not have fermentation control and it probably fermented with an ambiant temp of 72 or so.

 

[mcbethenstein]

So I took one of the questionable hefe's, and a fresh hefe to one of my LHBS (Brew & Grow) and had a few staff members taste it for me. One is their water specialist, and the other is a BJCP judge. The judge concluded that the fermentation temp must have been too high the first day (was over 80) and he was getting excessive phenols. The water guy said he could taste iron. The hard water in our region is notorious... So I am inclined to believe that it's a combination of the two. They both thought the recipe was well executed, and tasty though. I have a call into a guy at our municipal water utility, he is calling me back tomorrow with specifics on the profile of our water. So after I get this water figured out I will ferment lower (as I did with my new hefe) and try again.

 

[CidahMastah]

So I took one of the questionable hefe's, and a fresh hefe to one of my LHBS (Brew & Grow) and had a few staff members taste it for me. One is their water specialist, and the other is a BJCP judge. The judge concluded that the fermentation temp must have been too high the first day (was over 80) and he was getting excessive phenols. The water guy said he could taste iron. The hard water in our region is notorious... So I am inclined to believe that it's a combination of the two. They both thought the recipe was well executed, and tasty though. I have a call into a guy at our municipal water utility, he is calling me back tomorrow with specifics on the profile of our water. So after I get this water figured out I will ferment lower (as I did with my new hefe) and try again.

I recently did a rebrew on a hefe at 62-64F with regular pitching rates instead of going higher. I am much happier with the ending results. If you can, try going in that range. I plan on redoing Ed's hefe, but with the lower ferment to see how that goes as well.

 

[EdWort]

Just remember that fermentation temps can be as high 10 degrees over ambient since the process generates heat. I ferment in buckets and tape the Love controller sensor to the side of the bucket so it is positioned in between the two buckets in my chest freezer. I also have a couple of long 2x2 pieces of wood that the buckets sit on so there is air flow underneath as well.

During active ferment, the ambient temp of the chest freezer hits about 60 degrees when the side of the bucket is 68.

 

[johnnybrew]

Ed - brewed this up again (second time in the past year) and just kegged it last night. I controlled my mash and ferm temps much better this time around and am blown away by the flavor profile from the sample I snagged for the FG reading. Great frickin summer Heffe. Thanks for posting the quick links to your other recipes in your signature... I plan to work my way through those. Prost!

 

[mistercameron]

The only disappointing part of my brew is the lack of head retention (and of course no lacing), even with clean rinsed glasses. Could the fact that the beer has cleared be part of that, or is it more something in the mash? It's been bottled for about 3-4 weeks now, and ambient temps got pretty high into the mid 80s inside last week. Otherwise mid 70s. Everything about the beer tastes great and I have no complaints there.

Thanks!

 

[mrfocus]

I have to thank Ed for this recipe. Brewed it up for the second time, just kegged it after 8 days in primary and the FG sample I took was simply delicious.

I just want to emphasize how important temperature control on this brew is. I have a thermometer in my fermentation room with a probe that you can take a second temperature with. I stuck it to the side of my fermentation bucket and for the first 40 hours it was hovering around 75F (24C) while the room was at 68F (20C)!

 

[ugaant]

I brewed this on June 19, and bottled on July 2. It has a really complex taste for such a light and refreshing beer. Thank you for sharing your recipe and techniques.

 

[EdWort]

I have to thank Ed for this recipe. Brewed it up for the second time, just kegged it after 8 days in primary and the FG sample I took was simply delicious.

I just want to emphasize how important temperature control on this brew is. I have a thermometer in my fermentation room with a probe that you can take a second temperature with. I stuck it to the side of my fermentation bucket and for the first 40 hours it was hovering around 75F (24C) while the room was at 68F (20C)!

Yep, fermenation temps can be different from room temp as much as 10 degrees Farenheit.

This is why I tape my Love Controller temp sensor to the side of the bucket and place the other bucket right next to it. The temp of the Fermenteezer can be sometimes 10 degrees colder than the bucket, but it is cool to watch after a few days as the set temp and the ambient temp come together, letting me know the first phase of fermentation is almost done.

 

[Dgonza9]

LHBS didn't have Hallertau. They suggested I sub Saaz. Now that I check the hops substitution chart, this isn't listed as a sub for Hallertau. Too bad as they did have Tetnanger.

You guys think Saaz will work well in this beer? Seems like a decent choice, but I'd like to better understand what will be different with this substitution before I do it.

Thanks.

 

[EdWort]

I would go with Tettnager before Saaz. Basically, you want a light German Noble hop for Hefe's, preferably one from Bavaria which is why Hallertau is used. Tettnanger is from Baden Wurtenburg and is a bit stronger, so watch your AA's on it.

 

[Dgonza9]

I would go with Tettnager before Saaz. Basically, you want a light German Noble hop for Hefe's, preferably one from Bavaria which is why Hallertau is used. Tettnanger is from Baden Wurtenburg and is a bit stronger, so watch your AA's on it.

Unfortunately, I already have the Saaz and I don't fancy a trip back to the homebrew store just to get the Tetnanger.

I know the Saaz will be different, but it should still be mild and a bit spicy, no?

Unless you really think it's a mistake, I think I'm going to go with the Saaz. I need to brew this beer before a trip on Monday.

 

[EdWort]

If you are going with Saaz, I would toss in 1/2 oz. at 45 minutes and be done with it (for 5 gallons).

My zwei pfennigs.

 

[Haputanlas]

I brewed this a couple weeks back with 2-row rather than pils. Just kegged today and already tastes phenomenal. I can already tell it will be my best Hef yet. However, all of my recent beers have significantly improved due to my Ranco temp controller and chest freezer fermentation chamber.

Thanks Ed

 

[dcHokie]

Ed, drinking one of these Hefes right now and it is fantastic, really tasty. This is the third Hefe I've brewed and your recipe (& process) resulted in a beer that is leaps and bounds beyond my first two attempts at the style. I'll be brewing this one again, thanks for the recipe and cheers!

 

[Haputanlas]

Wow, one of the best Hefs I've ever had. Just tasted this for the first time and I'm really impressed.

As mentioned before, the only thing I changed was that I used 2 row instead of the pils.

 

[monkeydan]

Worst brew day in my short career as a homebrewer...

Stuck mash, had to dump everything into a spare fermenting bucket and filter through a mesh bag in order to sparge. The wort seriously looks like mud. It's brown and you can't see through it :-(

My pre-boil gravity was the same as my post-boil gravity. This isn't even possible but the two samples were exactly the same temperature and the reading was exactly the same for sure. No idea what I'm doing wrong here.

Couldn't get my wort down to pitching temp, it's reasonably hot here in the UK at the moment and so I had to pitch a few degrees higher than I would have liked.

My ATC-800 temperature controller decided to stop working, so I opened it up and started f***ing about with it BEFORE I went on the internet to check the instruction manual or try and figure out what the problem was. It turns out a flashing light just means there is a 3-minute compressor delay and there's actually nothing wrong with it.

I don't think this one is going to turn out OK. There is a distinct tannic bitterness to the hydrometer sample I tasted. The wort was probably brown due to grains getting into the boil after my stuck sparge.

Bleugh.

 

[ekjohns]

one possible reason for no gravity change is the hotter the sample the lower the reading. I have heard you shouldnt even take a reading till the sample is under 80F, and the readings are really only spot on if its at 60F

 

[JMass]

That's too bad. Maybe based on your by-line it's time to go pro!

I'm not picturing how grains could have gotten into the boil based on your description. My issues with tannins have been with oversparging. I use a fly sparge method. Did you not use rice shells? If you look at the other photos of this beer, you'll see that it is a darkish yellowish cloudy beer - not really light straw colored as I recall.

If your OSG is within range, at least that should be OK.

 

[Boleslaus]

I'm getting ready to brew this on Sunday. Bought the ingredients last night at my LHBS. I went with soft red wheat and weihenstephan yeast. Can't wait to drink this based on the reviews. I've been craving a simple, delicious hefeweizen for a while now.

 

[monkeydan]

one possible reason for no gravity change is the hotter the sample the lower the reading. I have heard you shouldnt even take a reading till the sample is under 80F, and the readings are really only spot on if its at 60F

Hmmm... the samples were over 80F but not by that much and I adjusted for the temperature. I usually let them cool down to room temp before I confirm the reading but I was all over the place today!

That's too bad. Maybe based on your by-line it's time to go pro!

I'm not picturing how grains could have gotten into the boil based on your description. My issues with tannins have been with oversparging. I use a fly sparge method. Did you not use rice shells? If you look at the other photos of this beer, you'll see that it is a darkish yellowish cloudy beer - not really light straw colored as I recall.

If your OSG is within range, at least that should be OK.

I couldn't find rice hulls anywhere, in the UK some people use oat husks to do the same job but I didn't bother getting any. I will next time I just read posts from a lot of people who seemingly never get stuck sparges (even with 60-70% wheat) so I thought 'why bother?'

I do think I may have oversparged. Also when I was trying to fix the stuck sparge something I read advised me to stir the mash as this might fix it. The wheat is kind of powdery and I think when I stirred it, the particles were so small that they found their way into the boil. The first runnings looked fine, it was when I sparged that it got stuck.

I did hit my OG thanks to the lb of DME I added at flameout!!

Anyways, I will learn from this experience and hopefully it will make me a better brewer. Not much I can do about it now except hope for the best! Fingers crossed it will end up similar to everyone else's attempts as I was super-psyched to try the recipe...

 

[mcbethenstein]

Where did you take your preboil gravity reading from. Was it well mixed, and the reading taken after all the sparge/wort was collected?

On a personal note... Even though I am still not satisfied with my version of this brew (water too hard, and leaving a harsh taste) I won 1st place weizen at the inaugural germanfest homebrew competition in milwaukee. I have my new RO system installed and will be brewing this again in about a week to test out the difference water makes with this brew. So even with the completely wrong type of water and using yeast harvested from a spent batch (not top cropping) this is a stellar recipe!

P.s. To avoid a stuck sparge I use a handful of hulls and I pull a hop sock over my false bottom as an extra layer of filtration. No stuck sparges yet, but I'm being proactive about it.

 

[Dgonza9]

P.s. To avoid a stuck sparge I use a handful of hulls and I pull a hop sock over my false bottom as an extra layer of filtration. No stuck sparges yet, but I'm being proactive about it.

I also use a grain bag over my copper manifold. I think it makes stuck sparge essentially impossible, though I take other precautions as well. I highly recommend this technique.

I'm just crash cooling my Hefeweizen and it already tastes pretty nice. I set the fermentation chamber to 60 to get more clove flavors and it worked great. I I was fermenting in a sanke with a rubber coating on it so I figured the temp might spike and kept it a bit lower.

Great recipe.