Saison BBD Saison Furtif

[jcbrewin]

Anyone see a problem with using 3724 instead of 3711 thays what I ordered by accident gonna try it either way saturday anytthing to do differant hopeing I won't ruin your great recipe thanks for any input guys

 

[nppeders]

the big difference is that 3724 is a finichy yeast where as 3711 will keep on chigging and chugging away. 3724 you have to keep extremely warm 80 degrees at least and still sometimes it stalls out for a week at a time around 1.020. Then with warm temperature it usually picks back up and continues, but many people use champagne yeast to finish the fermentation when 3724 stalls out. That being said...I produced a fantastic Saison last summer using 3724 fermenting in my attic. Probably my best Saison to date! Here's my post for that Saison on my Blog

 

[ChshreCat]

The 3724 will take longer and won't ever get your FG nearly as low as 3711 will. It'll make beer, but it won't be the same beer. Not quite as dry.

 

[Hitokiri]

If I wanted to slightly cut down the ABV on this brew, would it be best to cut out the sugar addition?

 

[ChshreCat]

If I wanted to slightly cut down the ABV on this brew, would it be best to cut out the sugar addition?

That would probably be the best way to do it with the least impact on flavor. Would be a little less dry, but the other aspects would be the same I think.

 

[Hitokiri]

Awesome, I'm going to give it a try this weekend. Thanks, Cat!

 

[Jublin]

I did a search on this thread, but couldn't find it..

As far as I know, my LHBS only has pacman wyeast, some others that aren't 3711. They do have a lot of WL yeasts though. Is there an equivalent to 3711 from WL?

If not, I can try to find it at other HBSs somewhat near me.

 

[ChshreCat]

Not really. It's pretty unique as a saison yeast. My LHBS can order any yeast they don't carry. Might ask if they can get it in for ya.

 

[Jublin]

Yeah, I'm going to look at the one in Salem. Their parent company (homebrewheaven) has it listed. You did a starter, correct? I'll be trying the extract version with a 3-3.5 gal boil.

This sounds like it'll be pretty damn good, so hopefully I can get it brewed in the next couple weeks while it's still hot out.

 

[ChshreCat]

Homebrew Heaven is my LHBS. All else fails... order it from them online.

 

[dale1038]

Have had this guy on tap for about 6 weeks now. Added 2 ounces Amarillo at flameout and 3 ounces Amarillo dry hop. I wasn't too happy with those additions at first but I'm really enjoying this beer now. I think next time I would make it as stated, but I wanted to try something different. It's still a good beer but you can tell the base beer would be better. Thanks for the recipe.

 

[jcbrewin]

made this on sunday i forgot a .5lb of LME an only used 4.0lb, was rushing gettin it in before flameout so i only hit right around 1.060 then brought it up tp 1.062 with DME hopefully i didnt screw up your great recipe, the 3724 yeast is chugging away heavy in my 90 degree closet smelling great an tasted good when we were getting are SG. only brought it up to 1.062 b/c i didnt have enough DME to get to 1.066 thanks cat for a great recipe gonna try to nail it the next time with 3711 and hopefully get that SG up!!!

 

[MrBlackjaw]

Is a starter necessary for this recipe and/or 3711 yeast?

Thanks.

 

[ChshreCat]

You should definitely use a starter... but I never do. ymmv

 

[nppeders]

I prefer to under pitch this yeast. I rarely do a starter and I prefer the ones that are fermented with only one smack pack, no starter. More funky, fruity flavors from the yeast being stressed!

 

[nppeders]

I tried this recipe and got a different result than others appear to have experienced. Admittedly, I made a couple of changes based upon what was available at the LHBS at the time, but the odd result seems to be from the yeast strain. Tell me what you think:

Had to use German pils instead of Belgian.
Hopped with Magnum and Saphir: 0.6oz Mag @ 60min, 1oz Sap @ 20min, 1oz Sap @ 1min.
4.2lbs XL DME @ 20min instead of the pale LME.
Left out the sugar because I prefer lower octane drink.
2L starter Wyeast 3711.
Fermented at ambient (68F-70F).

The odd result is that while I did not detect any such aroma in the starter, my beer has a dominant clove-like flavor that is strikingly similar to what you get from a german weissbier yeast strain.

Did anyone else pick up a clove-ish spice flavor? If so, maybe the hop schedule I used accentuated that. The pils wouldn't have had anything to do with it, I assume?

That said, the strain is a champ and fermented out fully and quickly. Also, the grain bill is excellent on this recipe. The wheat malt is a nice touch and is just noticeable. I can't comment on the hops since I went far afield from the OP's recipe on that. My saison is a good beverage, but it doesn't taste much like what I think a saison should be because of the dominant clove flavor. Next time I will try to get a more balanced and nuanced flavor profile. Maybe I will try hopping as described.

I'd say you get that clove flavor mainly because of the temperature you fermented at. Many Witbier, and Hefe yeast when fermented low give you more clove then Banana. Weird thing is, 70 degrees us low for this yeast. Ferment higher next time...80-85 if possible. You will be rewarded with a fruity, peppery, and some clove.

 

[nppeders]

I guess it's time for me to brew this recipe finally. Might as well.....right? I have a low gravity Saison Brett right now. A medium gravity spiced saison with rose hips, coriander, and star anise...I guess I need a higher gravity version hanging around as well. Gotta brew me some Saison's while the weather's still warm in MN!

I'll let you know what I think once I get er done!

 

[manthedan]

Hey All,

This is going to be my first brew. I'm a newcomer to the world of home brewing and have been doing my homework the last couple of weeks. I've read J Palmer's How to Brew and have been watching a lot of videos via youtube on people different takes and tips on brewing. I'm a big fan of Saisons (my favorite being Saison Du Lente from The Bruery) and wanted to try out your recipe ChshreCat.

I had a few questions about my brew.

1.) The perle hops I got from my LHBC have a 6.5% alpha acid measurement. This is significantly lower then the 8.2% used by OP. Should I increase the amount of my Perle hops to equal out to 10.2 IBU @ 60 min and 3.7 IBU @ 10 min?

2.) Fermentation temperature: I'm located in the San Francisco Bay Area and temperature fluctuates from 80s during the day to mid 60s in the evening. I know that the 3711 yeast works better at warmer temperatures and wanted to know the best way to keep my fermentation carboy (clear plastic) at a warmer temperature. I have a heat pad that I can wrap around the carboy and place a cardboard box around it with some padding to keep it heated at night. Would that be necessary?

3.) Once I've bottled after 7 days in secondary; how long before should I wait before I crack a bottle and enjoy my tasty concoction?

 

[ChshreCat]

Hey All,

1.) The perle hops I got from my LHBC have a 6.5% alpha acid measurement. This is significantly lower then the 8.2% used by OP. Should I increase the amount of my Perle hops to equal out to 10.2 IBU @ 60 min and 3.7 IBU @ 10 min?

I don't worry too much about the AA values most of the time. You should be fine, but if you're worried you can add a little bump to the 60 addition. Don't worry about the 10 minute changing the 10 minute. The AA won't make a difference there.

2.) Fermentation temperature: I'm located in the San Francisco Bay Area and temperature fluctuates from 80s during the day to mid 60s in the evening. I know that the 3711 yeast works better at warmer temperatures and wanted to know the best way to keep my fermentation carboy (clear plastic) at a warmer temperature. I have a heat pad that I can wrap around the carboy and place a cardboard box around it with some padding to keep it heated at night. Would that be necessary?

Stability is more important than keeping it warm. What I'd do is put your fermenter in a big basin of water. I like to use those party tubs you can get for a few bucks to ice kegs in. Fill that up with room temp water. That will give you thermal mass that will keep the temps level. Won't let it get too cold at night.

3.) Once I've bottled after 7 days in secondary; how long before should I wait before I crack a bottle and enjoy my tasty concoction?

Give it three weeks, then put one bottle in the fridge for 48 hours before trying it. If the carbonation seems right and the flavor is good, put a few more in. Always give them at least 48 hours in the fridge before you open them and only put a few in at a time. Only putting a few in at a time won't make the beer better... but it'll keep you from drinking them up too fast.

 

[Dannost]

Glad you liked it. If you used 3711, I think they still had a little work for the yeast to do, but since you're kegging it I don't see that as being a problem if it's a few points high.

If the only difference between the two batches was the sugar, it'll be interesting to hear your opinion on how that changes it. There's some folks on here who swear by no sugar additions with the 3711 yeast, so this would be an interesting test. I was considering trying my recipe with less/no sugar as well.

Well the keg with the sugar is on tap. It finished out at 1.005 for an ABV of 9%. I opened a saved bottle from the half without the sugar to do a comparison. The taste was only slightly different. The sugar batch was just a little bit drier and a touch warmer, letting you know there is some alcohol there, but by no means hot and no fusels. Both cleared well revealing a perfect orange color.

I preferred the slightly sweeter batch without the sugar, but the stronger batch is great for a nightcap. This recipe will be brewed again. Thanks again.

 

[manthedan]

Thanks for the advice ChshreCat, I placed the fermenter in a waterbath for temperature stability and it's chugging along quite nicely today.

I didn't sparge with enough water because I thought I had TOO much water in my boiling pot. I ended up with 3.5 gallons when I poured from my kettle and into my fermenter. It may have altered the utilization of the hops a bit but I will have to wait and find out what effect it will have on the taste of the beer.

I did however hit my O.G. spot on at 1.067.

 

[ChshreCat]

The IBU's are pretty low on this brew, so don't worry about the utilization as that only counts for bittering hops. The hops really don't have a central of a role in his beer as they do in other styles. You want enough bitterness to keep it from being too sweet, and then enough flavor and aroma to complement the yeast, but not cover it up.

 

[manthedan]

It looks like the yeast has started to slow down but it's only been about 5 days since brew day. I roused the yeast a bit and am waiting to see if the activity picks up. The first 3 days it was chugging along like a machine with plumes of yeast moving around the fermenter. The yeast now is floating around in suspension, and I'm seeing a bubble come up every 12 seconds or so instead of every 3-4 seconds as i was seeing before.

Would adding the lb of sugar be too early at this point? I don't want to jump the gun in adding the simple sugars yet. The krausen level looks like it has dropped a bit

 

[starrfish]

I'd add it now... I usually add it at initial fermentation, since it's a pretty small amount overall.

 

[ChshreCat]

This one works fast and furious, so it's probably finishing up. This is a good time to add the sugar. Go ahead and take a hydrometer reading when you do, just to see where it's at.

 

[starrfish]

Tweaking this recipe a bit after last 2 versions.

Bringing alcohol down a bit... too tasty on tap!

5lb Belgian Pale
4.25lb german pils
.75 20L crystal
.75 Tort Wheat
1lb light belgian candy sugar

1 oz sterling 60 min
1 0z strisselspalt 20 min (2.6AA)
1 oz Strisselspalt 10min (1.9AA)

OR FWH strissel (worked well On last)

1068 OG
1007 FG (hopefully no lower)
7 SRM

7.9% ABV

slightly courser crush efficiency since was way high last 2 times & bringing up mash temp a bit, same yeast. may also do a BIAB with this one. would be happy in the mid 7% range. been doing well with clarity on low srm beers lately.

 

[ChshreCat]

Tweaking this recipe a bit after last 2 versions.

Bringing alcohol down a bit... too tasty on tap!

I've been thinking about trying to do the same. I'm drinking one as I type this and it's far too dangerous. I wanna drink 3 or 4 of these at a sitting and I just can't do that and maintain a productive lifestyle.

 

[manthedan]

Went ahead and added the sugar tonight. My measured gravity today was 1.006. You weren't kidding when you said 3711 was a work horse!

I couldn't help it and sneaked a taste from my gravity sample and it is well on its way to being an amazing drink.

Thanks ChshreCat, lots of good karma to you!

 

[starrfish]

I've been thinking about trying to do the same. I'm drinking one as I type this and it's far too dangerous. I wanna drink 3 or 4 of these at a sitting and I just can't do that and maintain a productive lifestyle.

LOL! I hear ya!

Give a FWH on this if you haven't already.. got some good results.

New 10 gallon mash tun is way efficient so I need to start playing with crush. My last was so smooth but way way high on ABV! 2 in short order made me one with the couch!

also I've used strisselspalt on all mine and wow! It works great! as it's the traditional french hop.

should be doing this again soon while I still can get some hot SC days!

 

[TallyPatriot]

Looking forward to brewing this beer soon. Here in Florida it's harder to ferment in the traditional ale range (68-72) without a fermentation chamber. As a result my last few cream ale batches had some bad off-flavors, compared to my winter brews. I'm going to measure the temperature in the garage and see if I can ferment in there (probably 90+) or bring it in the 76 degree house and wrap a sleeping bag around the fermenter. I'll post some pics when its done.