Batch Sparge Volumes. Not Understanding Needed Volumes

[TheMagicHatter]

Hey gang. I'm finally going to be brewing my first all grain batch tomorrow. It's a pale ale recipe that has turned out incredibly well in my extract batches.

I've been playing around in Beersmith trying to understand my batch sparge volumes and can't seem to understand what it's telling me. I've searched the forums and others have had the same issue, but I still can't wrap my head around this.

My grain bill is 10.75lbs which will end up being about 13.44 qts/3.36gal of water for the strike water. So far so good, I think. Now I'll heat that water to around 168 degrees, dump it into my 10 gallon cooler and stir in the grains and allow it to sit for 60 mintues, correct?

Beersmith then tells me I need to batch sparge with 3 steps(posted below). Why 3 steps? Why can't I pour the entire volume of .19gal, 2.26gal and 2.26gal in at all one time, drain, then boil?

I'm trying to end up with around 5 gallons post boil.


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Type: All Grain Date: 1/6/2013
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.00 gal Brewer:
Boil Size: 6.52 gal Asst Brewer:
Boil Time: 60 min Equipment: Pot and Cooler ( 5 Gal/19 L) - All Grain
End of Boil Volume 5.98 gal Brewhouse Efficiency: 72.00 %
Final Bottling Volume: 4.60 gal Est Mash Efficiency 82.8 %
Fermentation: Ale, Two Stage Taste Rating(out of 50): 30.0
Taste Notes:
Ingredients


Ingredients
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
9 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 83.7 %
1 lbs Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM) Grain 2 9.3 %
12.0 oz Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 3 7.0 %
1.00 oz Magnum [13.70 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 4 45.5 IBUs
0.50 oz Cascade [7.30 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 5 6.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Cascade [7.30 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 6 2.4 IBUs
1.0 pkg American Ale (Wyeast Labs #1056) [124.21 ml] Yeast 7 -
1.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Dry Hop 21.0 Days Hop 8 0.0 IBUs

Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.056 SG Measured Original Gravity: 1.046 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.015 SG Measured Final Gravity: 1.010 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 5.3 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 4.7 %
Bitterness: 54.0 IBUs Calories: 151.6 kcal/12oz
Est Color: 7.4 SRM
Mash Profile

Mash Name: Single Infusion, Full Body, Batch Sparge Total Grain Weight: 10 lbs 12.0 oz
Sparge Water: 4.70 gal Grain Temperature: 72.0 F
Sparge Temperature: 168.0 F Tun Temperature: 72.0 F
Adjust Temp for Equipment: FALSE Mash PH: 5.20

Mash Steps
Name Description Step Temperature Step Time
Mash In Add 13.44 qt of water at 168.2 F 156.0 F 45 min

Sparge Step: Batch sparge with 3 steps (0.19gal, 2.26gal, 2.26gal) of 168.0 F water
Mash Notes: Simple single infusion mash for use with most modern well modified grains (about 95% of the time).

 

[Yooper]

It sounds like you didn't set up your preferences in Beersmith. Of course you can add it all at one time.

The easiest way to do this the first time is to mash in and described, then drain the mash tun after an hour. Measure those runnings, and then batch sparge with whatever you need for the boil volume.

For example, say you wanted to start with 6.5 gallons for the boil.

Say you have 10 pounds of grain. (To make my math easier- I"m away from a calculator). You'd mash in with 15 quarts (4.25 gallons) of 166 degree water for a 152 degree mash for 60 minutes (using 1.5 quarts/pound, a good figure).

Since the grain should absorb about .125 gallons/pound of grain, you should get out 3 gallons of first runnings.

That means you'd need 3.5 gallons to batch sparge. (3 gallons first runnings + 3.5 gallons batch sparging = 6.5 gallons in the kettle).

For your first time, have extra hot water on hand, even if you use Beersmith, just in case you find that you need it.

 

[tsjolin]

Short answer is you'll get better efficiency.

Each time you add water you'll want to stir it in good, recirculate the first runnings until its running clean. When you drain go slowish.

 

[ronjonacron]

Also, it looks like that first step, the .019 gallons is probably a mash out. I personally skip that step, espcially when batch sparging.

If you want the beersmith to tell you the exact steps. Go to the mash options and change it to batch slarge no mashout. You probably have it set to double batch sparge. Which is the more efficiency friendly way.

 

[Beerthoven]

Yes, you can dump all the sparge water in at one time and then do one long drain to collect all your wort, provided you have enough room in your mash tun to hold all the water. This is how I do it, and I get 80% efficiency.

In Beersmith, select the "Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge" profile. In the window, there will be a line for Mash-In that shows you how much water and the strike temp to use for the mash. Beneath the window will be a line for the Sparge, showing how much sparge water you need. Click the button for Add Mash Step. A popup window will appear where you can specify the parameters for the new mash step. I usually name it Mash-Out, I set the step temperature for 168, the step time for 10 minutes, the rise time for 0 minutes, and (most importantly) the water to add should be equal to the amount of water that was listed in the sparge. Click OK, when you're done the sparge amount should be 0 gallons. The attached image shows what it looks like when I'm done.

 

[Yooper]

Yes, you can dump all the sparge water in at one time and then do one long drain to collect all your wort, provided you have enough room in your mash tun to hold all the water. This is how I do it, and I get 80% efficiency.

In Beersmith, select the "Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge" profile. In the window, there will be a line for Mash-In that shows you how much water and the strike temp to use for the mash. Beneath the window will be a line for the Sparge, showing how much sparge water you need. Click the button for Add Mash Step. A popup window will appear where you can specify the parameters for the new mash step. I usually name it Mash-Out, I set the step temperature for 168, the step time for 10 minutes, the rise time for 0 minutes, and (most importantly) the water to add should be equal to the amount of water that was listed in the sparge. Click OK, when you're done the sparge amount should be 0 gallons. The attached image shows what it looks like when I'm done.

Great info, with the screenshot! Thanks for that.

There are some "workarounds" like this that make beersmith much more user friendly, but I totally forgot about that one!

 

[TheMagicHatter]

It sounds like you didn't set up your preferences in Beersmith. Of course you can add it all at one time.

The easiest way to do this the first time is to mash in and described, then drain the mash tun after an hour. Measure those runnings, and then batch sparge with whatever you need for the boil volume.

For example, say you wanted to start with 6.5 gallons for the boil.

Say you have 10 pounds of grain. (To make my math easier- I"m away from a calculator). You'd mash in with 15 quarts (4.25 gallons) of 166 degree water for a 152 degree mash for 60 minutes (using 1.5 quarts/pound, a good figure).

Since the grain should absorb about .125 gallons/pound of grain, you should get out 3 gallons of first runnings.

That means you'd need 3.5 gallons to batch sparge. (3 gallons first runnings + 3.5 gallons batch sparging = 6.5 gallons in the kettle).

For your first time, have extra hot water on hand, even if you use Beersmith, just in case you find that you need it.

Thanks for the info, Yooper. What you've said makes complete sense to me outside of Beersmith. I've relied on it pretty heavily through my extract brewing so I believe that's why I'm thrown off with the AG stuff. As for profiles, I have no clue what in the hell I should have selected. After playing around, I didn't realize I could create my own equipment profile and after tweaking it, it looks a little bit closer to what you're saying. Suppose I'll just grip it and rip it tomorrow and see how it goes.

 

[GrogNerd]

there are these options too.

either on the DESIGN or MASH tab, click the box to the right of the MASH option

try checking all 3 of those boxes and 100% for the fill option

 

[TheMagicHatter]

Yes, you can dump all the sparge water in at one time and then do one long drain to collect all your wort, provided you have enough room in your mash tun to hold all the water. This is how I do it, and I get 80% efficiency.

In Beersmith, select the "Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge" profile. In the window, there will be a line for Mash-In that shows you how much water and the strike temp to use for the mash. Beneath the window will be a line for the Sparge, showing how much sparge water you need. Click the button for Add Mash Step. A popup window will appear where you can specify the parameters for the new mash step. I usually name it Mash-Out, I set the step temperature for 168, the step time for 10 minutes, the rise time for 0 minutes, and (most importantly) the water to add should be equal to the amount of water that was listed in the sparge. Click OK, when you're done the sparge amount should be 0 gallons. The attached image shows what it looks like when I'm done.

there are these options too.

either on the DESIGN or MASH tab, click the box to the right of the MASH option

try checking all 3 of those boxes and 100% for the fill option

View attachment 152245

Thank you both for the incredibly helpful information. I knew Beersmith was a powerful little program, but had no idea I could do something like this. The recipe is starting to look a bit better and easier to understand, then again, I'm likely over thinking the whole process as it is!

 

[acidrain]

Don't forget, you need to know your boil-off rate.

 

[TheMagicHatter]

Started first thing this morning and am currently mashing. I'm finding that "the best laid plans of mice and men often go astray" very quickly. I had everything planned out lastnight as to how much water I would add to my mash tun, what the temps would be, yada yada yada and found out that even when heating the water to 172 then adding the grains, at 75 degrees, that this wasn't a high enough temperature for my mash tun to hold without cooling. Once the grains were added I was down to 149 degrees and had to add more water to bring the temperature up. Ended up mashing in at 152 with about 4.25 gallons of water. Time to make some adjustments. Even with a heavy blanket over my cooler, it's already dropped to 150 in just 30 minutes. But, I'm going to ride it out.

 

[Yooper]

Started first thing this morning and am currently mashing. I'm finding that "the best laid plans of mice and men often go astray" very quickly. I had everything planned out lastnight as to how much water I would add to my mash tun, what the temps would be, yada yada yada and found out that even when heating the water to 172 then adding the grains, at 75 degrees, that this wasn't a high enough temperature for my mash tun to hold without cooling. Once the grains were added I was down to 149 degrees and had to add more water to bring the temperature up. Ended up mashing in at 152 with about 4.25 gallons of water. Time to make some adjustments. Even with a heavy blanket over my cooler, it's already dropped to 150 in just 30 minutes. But, I'm going to ride it out.

Next time, preheat the cooler by using 180 degree water (higher than that will warp the cooler- trust me on that!) and then covering it with the hot water for 15 minutes. You'd be shocked at how much heat that cooler sucks out of the water. Then drain, and THEN add your 172 degree water (or whatever your strike temperature is- for me, it's usually about 166).

Then, the cooler will hold heat within a degree for an hour. At least, most coolers will. The key is the 15 minute preheating with hotter water first.

 

[Crazytwoknobs]

You'll only need a few quarts of the hot water to preheat the mash tun, not the whole volume. At least that's what I do.

 

[GrogNerd]

I drain my preheat water and throw it back into the boil kettle for the strike water

 

[jwalker1140]

What I do is heat my strike water ~15 degrees hotter than my mash temp and add it to my cooler for 15 minutes before adding my grain. On my system I've found that the water will drop ~5 degrees during the 15-minute preheat period and then it will drop another ~10 degrees once I add the grain.

So, if my mash temp is 150, I would heat my water to 165, add it to the cooler until it drops to 160 (about 15 minutes) and then add the grain, mix well, and it should read ~150. No need to move the move the water back and forth this way.

I lose about 2 degrees over 60 minutes so I usually target a strike temp 1 degree over the recipe and finish about 1 degree under. Also, I've found it's easier to lower a temp that's too high than it is to raise one - just leave the lid off, stir and/or add some ice cubes.

 

[TheMagicHatter]

Thank you all very much for the suggestions when it comes to pre-heating the mash tun. I'll keep that in mind for my next brew, which I might do this coming weekend just to get the process ingrained, no pun intended, in my brain.

I ended up missing my OG by only a few points, at 1.053. I was shooting for 1.056, so I'd say that's a win. Within 8 hours I had signs of bubbles in the airlock, so I'll at least end up with some sort of alcoholic beverage! Now as far as drinkability goes, that has yet to be seen.

 

[Denny]

Keep in mind that Beersmith is a tool to help you brew, not instructions on how to brew.

For batch sparging info, check out www.dennybrew.com