Batch and Fly sparging. Whats the difference?

[Homercidal]

I batch sparge. Fly spargering is simply wrong.

 

[The Pol]

I fly sparge because that is howe my system is set up, and it is hands off. I dont have to transfer water, stir, drain... and repeat or whatever. I turn on a pump and open 3 valves, walk away, 30 mins. later is it complete. The HLT is dry, the MLT is dry and my BK is full. I mean, it is hands off.

 

[Denny]

From what I've read, I think it was Bobby M, it's worth about another 3%. Not much but I'm consistently getting 85-90% and like that consistency. If I got 75% every time I would be happy too--it's only a few dollars anyway. The beer is good and that is the whole point.

I consistently get 85% with a single sparge. Another 3% isn't worth the time or effort for me.

 

[Denny]

and produces better tasting beer.

I've judges a LOT of beer, and I don't think I've ever said "That one tastes like it was fly sparged"!

 

[Bobby_M]

I consistently get 85% with a single sparge. Another 3% isn't worth the time or effort for me.

No argument here.

 

[The Pol]

Well, one aspect that keeps getting missed is that regardless of whether you batch or fly sparge, your results can be affected by this... boxers or briefs? Granny panties or thong? There are a lot of variables and we are missing some major ones here.

 

[SpanishCastleAle]

Well, one aspect that keeps getting missed is that regardless of whether you batch or fly sparge, your results can be affected by this... boxers or briefs? Granny panties or thong? There are a lot of variables and we are missing some major ones here.

Boxer-briefs with comfort-soft waistband are clearly superior.

 

[Whiskey]

Boxer-briefs with comfort-soft waistband are clearly superior.

Agreed.

The real question is shoes or sandels. Sandles are much more comfortable, but hot wort is like napalm, I speak from experience.

 

[The Pol]

Hot wort on your feet? What sort of hillbilly spills wort all over? How unprofessional.

 

[Whiskey]

Hot wort on your feet? What sort of hillbilly spills wort all over? How unprofessional.

But it smells so good baked onto the driveway.

 

[brrman]

nopants...

 

[SpanishCastleAle]

But it smells so good baked onto the driveway.

Haha, not if you had my dog around. He's the quicker-picker-upper.

 

[wildwest450]

For me, fly sparging is better because it is easier, gives higher efficiency, produces more consistent results (especially with higher gravity brews), and produces better tasting beer. That doesn't mean it is right for everyone.

I'm not going to debate fly vs batch they are both fine ways of making beer. But please be so kind as to tell me how one way of rinsing grains makes "better" beer than another??

 

[The Pol]

I'm not going to debate fly vs batch they are both fine ways of making beer. But please be so kind as to tell me how one way of rinsing grains makes "better" beer than another??

Glad you asked, I am wondering the same thing.

 

[Scooby_Brew]

I tried both batch and fly sparging and I have to say that fly sparging is way better, easier and more efficient then batch sparging. I use a simple manifold to shower hot water onto the mash, very similar to the manifold I use to filter the wort out of the cooler:
http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/2585/0629091831.jpg

 

[SpanishCastleAle]

It depends! Just because batch sparging works better with your equipment doesn't mean it'll work better on someone else's. And just because fly-sparging works better on my equipment doesn't mean it'll work better on someone else's.

I use a simple manifold to shower hot water onto the mash, very similar to the manifold I use to filter the wort out of the cooler.

That manifold is just showering water on top of...water (or wort). A shower isn't even necessary there, the couple of inches of water above the grain prevent the grain bed from being disturbed.. Some just ladle it in with a saucepot...works fine.

But trust me on the comfort-soft waistband.

 

[Homercidal]

It's an interesting read in some of the brewing books I've got. Although I really don't understand how one is different than the other, except for the potential to compact the grain bed, but I think that is a potential for either. Also channeling of water can be a concern...

I wish I could comment on the underwear thing, but the only time I forgot to check my efficiency is the day that I wore my thong while brewing. Sorry.

 

[The Pol]

It depends! Just because batch sparging works better with your equipment doesn't mean it'll work better on someone else's. And just because fly-sparging works better on my equipment doesn't mean it'll work better on someone else's.


That manifold is just showering water on top of...water (or wort). A shower isn't even necessary there, the couple of inches of water above the grain prevent the grain bed from being disturbed.. Some just ladle it in with a saucepot...works fine.

But trust me on the comfort-soft waistband.

True true... no shower needed if you have 1-2" of water above the grain bed... just water on water. I dont sprinkle, just a 1/2" return line to pour the water in at the water surface.

The sprinkling thing is just perpetuated by the HB books, which also recommend 1-2" of water above the grain bed during the sparge... apparently they never really thought about the sprinkling then being a non issue in that case.

Consider this as well. If you arent using a rotating sort of sparge arm, you arent even sprinkling the water evenly, again defeating the supposed purpose of sprinkling water, right? You just keep sprinkling it in one area, and not in others.

 

[Chosenwon]

I fly sparge because that is howe my system is set up, and it is hands off. I dont have to transfer water, stir, drain... and repeat or whatever. I turn on a pump and open 3 valves, walk away, 30 mins. later is it complete. The HLT is dry, the MLT is dry and my BK is full. I mean, it is hands off.

Preach it!

 

[The Pol]

Preach it!

Some systems arent built this way though, and some volume calculations are not this accurate. I used to end up with a gallon or so left in my HLT or MLT or both when I had reached my pre-boil volume in my BK. It wasnt hands off.

I just kept track of the #s so that I could turn it on to sparge and walk away. When I get back the pump is running, the tanks are empty and I flip the switch to boil. Again, only because I built/planned it that way.

 

[SpanishCastleAle]

The sprinkling thing is just perpetuated by the HB books, which also recommend 1-2" of water above the grain bed during the sparge... apparently they never really thought about the sprinkling then being a non issue in that case.

Recently I've been thinking that much of reason for 'tiered' systems was fear of HSA...however HSA has been all but debunked. But I digress...

 

[flyangler18]

nopants...

Correct, kilt FTW.

Before this thread devolves even deeper into inane drivel and the pertinent technical conversation get completely and totally buried under six pages of crap , I think the chosen method of sparging is dictated by the brewer's system. I don't have a sculpture or brewstand to facilitate a fly-sparge, so I choose to batch sparge with 80% as my baseline efficiency.

With any method there are tradeoffs:

-fly sparging necessitates a mashout to cease further enzymatic activity during the lengthier process, preserving the wort profile as the brewer intended.

- batch sparging isn't quite as 'set it and forget it'.

YMMV, as always.

Recently I've been thinking that much of reason for 'tiered' systems was fear of HSA...however HSA has been all but debunked. But I digress...

How so? Your statement intrigues me.

 

[bob1852]

I turn on a pump and open 3 valves, walk away, 30 mins. later is it complete. The HLT is dry, the MLT is dry and my BK is full. I mean, it is hands off.

geez - you might as well just go buy commercial beer then. I kid, I kid.

I like the hands on part of batch sparging personally.

 

[The Pol]

geez - you might as well just go buy commercial beer then. I kid, I kid.

I like the hands on part of batch sparging personally.

I used to love hands on brewing... I kept messing it up, so I engineered myself out.

 

[Scooby_Brew]

There is another thing about fly sparging - no need for a giant cooler, especially when brewing 10 gal batches.

 

[wildwest450]

There is another thing about fly sparging - no need for a giant cooler, especially when brewing 10 gal batches.

Dude this thread is not about the virtues of fly or batch sparging, please re-read the op. He simply asked the difference between the two.

 

[Homercidal]

Batch spaging is better!

Here is the culprit! Get him!

 

[SpanishCastleAle]

How so? Your statement intrigues me.

To add more inane drivel I was thinking that one of the main reasons for tiered systems was so you could move the wort around from vessel to vessel without pumps and would avoid HSA because you weren't splashing it around. It's a fairly gentle transfer. But it takes work to set it up in the first place and it takes work to get all the liquor up to the top tier.

But since HSA isn't a concern, a little splashing won't hurt and it may be less work overall to just move the wort from vessel to vessel by ladling/pouring or other method that causes a little splashing...thus eliminating or reducing the need for tiers in the first place.

fly sparging necessitates a mashout to cease further enzymatic activity during the lengthier process, preserving the wort profile as the brewer intended.

Help a non-batcher understand...how does a mashout preserve wort profile in fly but not in batch? I assume by 'profile' you mean 'fermentability' and I agree that a mashout to some degree (imo >160 is enough...we're only trying to denature the beta-amylase right?) will 'lock-in' the fermentability even though the alpha-amylase is still working...even @ 170 F. Or is it mostly just a matter of time-spent-sparging? I'm at a rolling boil well within an hour of starting the vorlauf so in my case fly-sparging isn't that much lengthier of a process.

 

[flyangler18]

Help a non-batcher understand...how does a mashout preserve wort profile in fly but not in batch? I assume by 'profile' you mean 'fermentability' and I agree that a mashout to some degree (imo >160 is enough...we're only trying to denature the beta-amylase right?) will 'lock-in' the fermentability even though the alpha-amylase is still working...even @ 170 F. Or is it mostly just a matter of time-spent-sparging? I'm at a rolling boil well within an hour of starting the vorlauf so in my case fly-sparging isn't that much lengthier of a process.

As a batch sparger, I hope you'll accept my hack hypothesis.

Because the rate of the sparge is ostensibly slower with a fly/continuous sparge at conversion temps, it is possible that beta - amylase can continue working on the wort. The mashout denatures the enzymes, 'fixing' the fermentability so to speak.

By heating the sparge water to 185° (or whatever it takes to get the grainbed to 168°), a batch sparger is, in effect, conducting a mashout with the sparge infusion.

 

[Yambor44]

Here is a pretty comprehensive run down of both sparge procedures along with some pros and cons... good read.

Batch vs Fly is as rediculous as Aluminum vs Stainless, Pellet vs Leaf, HERMS vs RIMS or Chill vs No Chill. None of them, really matter or make that big of a difference. You will probably screw something up that is simple, that would contribute more to a difference in your final product than any of these differences combined.

People like thier soap boxes... but none of the above make an appreciable difference in your beer. Do what fits your style or your system. After all, this is just a hobby.

Sparging Methods | Brewer's Friend

Rob,

Great link! Lots of good tools and info there. Thanks.

Rob (also)