Barrel-Aged Question(s)

[Gytaryst]

I'm planning to do a barrel-aged Imperial

According to BJCP, an Imperial Stout is 8% to 12% abv. some BA stouts are 14.5% to 15% abv. Barrel aging doesn't increase abv by THAT much. Just curious. .

 

[mac_1103]

Do you live anywhere near a craft distillery? Maybe they would sell you a used barrel. Probably a lot bigger than you want though.

I've never used chunks or staves, only chips. I've shied away from spirals because the conventional wisdom is that they have too much surface area for small batches and the chances of extracting a lot of tanins are high.

There was a thread on using oak chips here not too long ago.

 

[hottpeper13]

A couple of years ago I read a TQ bulletan from the MBAA and the average was .5% abv increase. You could find out at packaging by weighing a sample and heating it to 170* for 10-15 min then re-weighting. When you get the barrel it might need to be rewetted with a good whisky,and abv my be higher.
The abw measurement is one of the lab type checks we can do. a 100 gram scale(hops and salts,everyone has one) and a 50 ml beaker (Halloween jello shots),thermometer,and a heat source.
I was able to empty the barrel with a siphon and rack my beer on top of the huge puddle in the bilge, prowlly more then .5% increase.

 

[BrewMan13]

I crunched the numbers on one and it increased the abv only like 0.3%. Started with an "unseasoned" barrel, kept adding bourbon until it stopped absorbing it. All together I added 1.5 bottles of bourbon, and had less than a pint left when I added the beer.

 

[mac_1103]

Started with an "unseasoned" barrel, kept adding bourbon until it stopped absorbing it.

What size barrel?

 

[BrewMan13]

What size barrel?

I wanna say like 13gal

 

[Gytaryst]

So in other words, if a BA Imperial Stout claims to be 14.5% or 15% abv, then most likely the beer was 14% to 14.5% going into the barrel?

I'm not as concerned with the final abv as I am with the flavor, complexity, body and mouth feel. Some of the best BA stouts I've tasted seemed to be in the 13.5% to 14.5% range. They had that chewy, syrupy, oily characteristic I want.

 

[BrewMan13]

So in other words, if a BA Imperial Stout claims to be 14.5% or 15% abv, then most likely the beer was 14% to 14.5% going into the barrel?

I'm not as concerned with the final abv as I am with the flavor, complexity, body and mouth feel. Some of the best BA stouts I've tasted seemed to be in the 13.5% to 14.5% range. They had that chewy, syrupy, oily characteristic I want.

Possibly. A lot depends on how "wet" the barrel was, as well as it's size, etc; that was just what mine worked out to be. I'm a stickler for being accurate, so I found an equation for calculating the final abv when 2 different concentrations are blended. I think it raised it from 13.9% to 14.2% having a bit under a pint of bourbon still in the barrel.
And actually this beer got surprisingly good attenuation, so it's not as thick as one might think.

 

[JAReeves]

Federal law also has limitations for how much ABV can be added through the use of tinctures, residual alcohol in barrels and such, when the beer is for sale. I think it's .5% max or something. That does not apply to homebrew, of course, but that may be why it seems to be a consistent % increase from a barrel when we are talking about the beers we buy in the store.

 

[Gytaryst]

Federal law also has limitations for how much ABV can be added through the use of tinctures, residual alcohol in barrels and such, when the beer is for sale. I think it's .5% max or something. That does not apply to homebrew, of course, but that may be why it seems to be a consistent % increase from a barrel when we are talking about the beers we buy in the store.

I didn't know there were Federal laws regulating it, but I suppose it's good that someone regulates it.

The way I understood barrel-aging; it's done merely to pick up the flavors and characteristics of the barrel and whatever residue from the previous contents, and not necessarily to increase abv. As I said, BJCP states that an Imperial Stout is between 8% and 12%, but a lot of BA stouts are listed as 13.5% to 14.5%. Having never attempted to brew a BA stout, I wasn't sure how that higher abv was being achieved. If the beer is going into the barrel at 14% and coming out at 14.3 or 14.5%, then in my mind that is "barrel-aging." If it was going in at 11% and being boosted to 14.5% by simply adding bourbon, that seems more like blending to me, and not "aging." You can drop a shot of bourbon into a glass of beer for that result.

I appreciate the responses. Now I need to keep researching on how to get a stout to finish at 13% or 14% abv without being over attenuated and dry. From what I've gathered so far, the keys are; pitching a super healthy, substantial amount, of yeast, maximum aeration in the wort, adding yeast nutrient, and possibly yeast vitalizer.

 

[hottpeper13]

One of my best brews of this style was fermented with TYB Belgian Dry yeast, STA-1 POF+. It took a 1.124 wort to 1.019. This yeast produces a lot of glycerin and the beer had a mouth feel of a much lower attenuated beer.
This yeast can have the phenolics manipulated by temp control and when the majority of fermentation is done at 68* then taken to 74*-76* to finish not much Belgianyness come thru all those dark flavors. It was brewed in 2018 and my cousin has 2 bottles left(was 3) he shared at Christmas time and it is so mellow now. When it was first tapped (1 year from brew day and 8 mo in a barrel) it was hot. Took 2 years to mellow into what I called my pinnacle beer,still the best one yet.
It went into the just emptied (2 hrs) barrel with quite a bit of whiskey in the bilge at 13.8% so I posted 14.5 % on the kegs and bottles.

 

[Gytaryst]

One of my best brews of this style was fermented with TYB Belgian Dry yeast, STA-1 POF+. It took a 1.124 wort to 1.019. This yeast produces a lot of glycerin and the beer had a mouth feel of a much lower attenuated beer.
This yeast can have the phenolics manipulated by temp control and when the majority of fermentation is done at 68* then taken to 74*-76* to finish not much Belgianyness come thru all those dark flavors. It was brewed in 2018 and my cousin has 2 bottles left(was 3) he shared at Christmas time and it is so mellow now. When it was first tapped (1 year from brew day and 8 mo in a barrel) it was hot. Took 2 years to mellow into what I called my pinnacle beer,still the best one yet.
It went into the just emptied (2 hrs) barrel with quite a bit of whiskey in the bilge at 13.8% so I posted 14.5 % on the kegs and bottles.

THAT sounds like exactly what I'm looking for. I love imperial stouts and I love big Belgians, but I don't want that Belgian funk in a stout.