Barneywine

[Nyrkki]

Here is my first attemp at a barleywine. The name derives of a philosophical paradox, which seems apropriate for a barleywine.

Grain bill:
7 lbs pale malt, SRM 3
4 lbs pale liquid extract, SRM 10
2,2 lbs munich malt, SRM, 9
1,1 lbs wheat malt, SRM 2
1,1 lbs light dry extract, SRM 8
0,4 lbs crystal, SRM 40
0,4 lbs cara-pils, SRM 3
0,2 lbs special b, SRM160

Hops:
1,49 oz. Magnum, 14,9%, 60 min
0,7 oz. Cascade, 7,7%, 30 min
0,88 oz. Cascade, 7,7%, 15 min
1 oz. Cascade, 7,7%, 5 min
0,7 oz. Cascade, 7,7%, 1 min
and 1,76 oz. Cascade for dry hopping

Yeast:
Wyeast London ESB ale 1968 (with a starter)

OG: 1,097
FG: 1,030
IBU: 70
IBU/GU: 0,72
ABV: 8,7
Color: 14,8

I intend to mash at 151 F for 90 min. Boil might also be 90 min, depending on how much wort I collect.
I was wondering whether I should add more bittering hops. I'm also unsure about the usefulness of the 30 min addition. The special malts are also something trouble me. Should I have more crystal malts, or toast lightlly some of the pale malt (like 0,4 oz)? I am also hoping to get the FG a bit lower. Any comments and critique are welcome.

 

[Ramitt]

found a pic for you label.

 

[ao125]

Barneywine... hah.

Color me amused.

Here is my first attemp at a barleywine. The name derives of a philosophical paradox, which seems apropriate for a barleywine.

What style of barleywine are you making? American or English. The grain bill really doesn't have to be complicated.

 

[Nyrkki]

Nice pic! I think that I won't be using it, since I draw my own lables, but thanks anyway. The name refers to Goldmans famous barn-facade case, but that is really beside the point...

I'm aiming for an american version. Big foot and old foghorn are some of my favourites. Do you think that my grain bill is too complex? The wheat and carapils are there for head and body. I think that some crystal malts are a must, and I've added munich to get a more maltty character since I use extacts in this one. Normally I do all grain, but I think that my system wouldn't be big enough to do 5 gal of 1,090 wort.

 

[wildwest450]

found a pic for you label.

NO WAY! When it comes to Barneywine, there can be only one...

 

[smiller]

My first impression is that the anticipated FG is a bit high, you may want to aim a bit lower (maybe around 1.020). As long as you mash that low and pitch a healthy slurry, that should be pretty easy to accomplish. Yes, I would also go with more bittering hops especially if you want to mimic Bigfoot. In addition, you could up your 30 and 15 min additions to around 1 oz each for more hop flavor, per Bigfoot. Maybe try to shoot for an IBU around 90. As for all the specialty malts, you could cut out the wheat and carapils and just use flaked barley for added body (~10% of the grain bill).

 

[Nyrkki]

Thanks for the comments!

I'll raise the magnum to 1,7 oz, and the 15 min and 30 min additions to 1 oz. That will give me 88 IBUs, with IBU/GU: 0,91. I'm not really aiming for 1,030 as my FG, and I suspect it to be lower. Brewtarget just gave that FG with this recepie, but I've found that it is not accurate at anticipating FG.

I'll look into the flaked barley thing. The wheat shouldn't create any haze at such a small quantity (7%)?

 

[Nyrkki]

So I intend to brew this tomorrow. I wanted to ask what you think about the wheat. Will my beer still be clear with such a small amout?

I will bottle this after 4 months or so, depending how the fermentation goes. Do you think that is enough time? I think it should be in a bottle for a few months atleast before consumption.

 

[smiller]

That small of a quantity of wheat shouldn't be a problem for clarity, especially if you toss in a whirlfloc tablet with 15 mins left in the boil. 4 months should be more than enough time; for my last barleywine, I did 2 weeks in primary with a healthy yeast slurry and I was already almost down to my FG. I aged it on bourbon-soaked oak cubes in the secondary for 2 months and I was easily down to FG when I bottled. I imagine I had hit it within a month of it being in secondary. You can age it as long as you want, just make sure there's not a lot of head space in the secondary to avoid oxidation.

 

[Nyrkki]

Thanks for the reply. I'll probably have half a gallon of headspace. I hope that is not too much. Otherwise I would have to brew a bigger, 6 gallon batch.

 

[Yankeehillbrewer]

I would personally cut out the Munich,Special B and Carapils. Then I would up the Crystal to at least a pound. I would also do a 2 hour boil to get some Caramelization from the kettle. I would also consider mashing at 148-149 as the London ESB yeast doesn't have a real high attenuation rate. That's a great yeast though, I use it in my Brown and Porter and it really made those nice beers as opposed to using an American strain.

 

[Nyrkki]

I actually brewed this today. I had 1,45 hr boil and got really nice caramelization in the kettle. This brew smells amaizing! I really like the color also.

Yeah and I mashed at 149. I figured that it would help to dry it a bit. I also mannaged to get my efficiency to exceed 80% which is very good for me. The hops absorbed a huge amount of wort however, so I will have some trouble to get a small enough fermenter to avoid extra headspace.

I thought about adding more crystal, but this was kind of a kitchen sink beer, and I was out of crystal. We'll see how it turns out.

 

[cmybeer]

This sounds like it all turned out well but now comes the hard part... the waiting.
I've got Denny's Old Stoner Barleywine sitting in my basement right now and it's only a month old and I already want to drink it...

I take it you hit your OG mark if not surpassing it with 80% efficiency. Mine was in the toilet for such a big beer but luckily I planned for lowered efficiency.

 

[Nyrkki]

Infact I got OG 1.112 for this one, and I expected 1.097. I had a 1 gallon startter and I'm now waiting for the primary to start. The waiting will be the hardest part, that is for sure. Luckily I have a few other projects, and no spare bottles, so I hope that I'm forced to condition this for several months.

 

[ao125]

Glug Glug Glug

 

[inthebackwoods]

The waiting will be the hardest part, that is for sure.

That is always that hardest part with these nice BIG brews. I have a barleywine that has been fermenting for a little over a month and I'm so tempted to keg it and force carb so I can drink it already. But, patience will pay off, so I'm going to let it sit for a while longer. At least I get to sample the flat / warm version once in a while. Still yummy!

 

[ao125]

There is a recipe linked in my sig to the last barleywine I brewed.

4 months in, it has nice minimal carbonation for a barleywine and great malt flavor.

Hang in there. I had to take all of mine and put it in a cooler in a closet so it would be out of sight, out of mind.

 

[Nyrkki]

The fermentation has really started. You can actually see the activity. A few hours ago the kraussen was about 0,5 inches high, now it is close to 2 inches. I guess the 1 gallon starter paid off. 4 months is a long time, hopefully I'll make it. By the way, when have you tossed in the dry hops? A week before you bottled it or when you racked it to secondary?

 

[smiller]

A gallon of head space shouldn't be bad for a month or two, but I honestly wouldn't wait four. Again, if it's just an issue of hitting final gravity, you should be able to accomplish that in 1 to 2 months. Something that would help this is leaving it in primary for about 2 weeks, so try that. Then go to secondary for 2 weeks to a month. Then you can age in the bottles (as long as you can pick some more up) for a few months before drinking it to clean up any off flavors, but the small head space and increased pressure in the bottles will help negate oxidation.

Add the dry hops between a week and 10 days before you plan to bottle. Once you bottle, definitely be patient, because a beer that big will take a while to carb.

 

[Nyrkki]

The waiting will just be twice as hard once it is bottled. 4 months is a long time, so I might heed your advice. I'll keep it in primary for 2-3 weeks and shift to secondary then. I'll see how long I'll keep it there, but I guess that it will age just as well in bottles as in the carboy.

 

[smiller]

Keep in mind that even if you age it to your liking in the carboy, a beer that big will still take 1 month+ to carb in the bottles. Heck, I had an imperial stout that took 4 months to carb. Unfortunately with OG's this high, you often still have to wait a long time once the beer is bottled.

 

[Nyrkki]

That is defiently something to keep in mind. Adding new yeast when bottling could help I guess, but if I'll bottle in 2 months or so, then it will not hurt at all to keep in the bottle for a long long time. I'll probably hide some bottles at my parents to safeguard them.

 

[cmybeer]

What's the reasoning behind big beers taking longer to carb up? I have one IIPA that is taking a while right now and am curious.

Do you have temp control for your fermentation Nyrkki? When I did my Barrleywine I had trouble keeping the temp down even though it was in the basement in a cold water bath.

 

[Yankeehillbrewer]

What's the reasoning behind big beers taking longer to carb up? I have one IIPA that is taking a while right now and am curious.

Do you have temp control for your fermentation Nyrkki? When I did my Barrleywine I had trouble keeping the temp down even though it was in the basement in a cold water bath.

It's the high ABV that slows the yeast down in carbing up the bigger beers.

 

[Nyrkki]

I do not have any means to control temperature, which is a major problem. The temperature inside the fermenter is 77 F, which is two grades more than the recommended temperature for this yeast. I guess the beer will be a bit fruitier than it should have been.

The kraussens volume was 1,5 gallons at its max. I've never had a fermentation this vigorous. Now it is starting to decline, though the waterlock bubbles every second.

 

[smiller]

I wouldn't worry too much, how warm is it in the room where your fermenter is kept? My last batch fermented really vigorously, and the temperature inside the fermenter was about 6 degrees warmer than the temperature of the room. After a couple of days, fermentation slowed and the temperature in the fermenter settled down.

 

[cmybeer]

From Wyeast website: "Ales produced with this strain tend to be fruity, increasingly so with higher fermentation temperatures of 70-74°F (21-23° C)."

I wouldn't worry too much about it though. You have a lot of hops and booze in that beer. Just know that it might be there.

After looking at the description on the website that ESB yeast has a "very high" flocculation level meaning you should probably swirl your carboy a few times a day once activity slows to keep the yeast in suspension and to avoid finishing overly sweet with a higher FG.

 

[Nyrkki]

The room temp is 71 F. Anyway, I don't think that a hint of fruit will be a bad thing in this beer.

Right now the fermentation is so vigorous that flocculation is not an issue. There is no yeast sediment at the bottom, and the yeast justs swirls around! Ones the fermentation subsides I intend to move the carboy a bit, so that the yeast won't flocculate. I will just have to be careful not to allow oxygen to get to the beer. London ESB doesn't have a too high attentuation, which means that any help that I can give the yeast will not go amiss.

BTW thanks for everyone for very insightful comments on this brew!

 

[smiller]

Just don't open the carboy (until you have to to transfer to secondary or check grav) and the risk of oxidation will be minimized. Sounds like it's going well!

 

[Nyrkki]

I took a sample today, since the fermentation subsided a few days ago. My SG reading was 1.020! I was expecting something like 1.030, but this is way better. I don't think it will get much lower than this, though the waterlock still gives a bubble every few minutes. According to my calculations the beer should be around 10.7 %.

The color is deep amber, maybe a hint darker than I thought it would be, but the LME had more color in it than I expected. Still the color is great. Cascade is prominent in the aroma.

The body is rich and quite thick. The taste is maltty and has a toffee/raisin like flavour which I love in barleywines. Thank god for special B! Bitterness is spot on. With dry hopping it will be amazing. It is not overly fruity, which was something I was worried about. Infact the modest amount of esters gives a great character to this beer. Alchol is well hidden behind the hops and malt. It is hard to imagen that this beer has over 10 % alcohol.

Now that I've tasted this the waiting will be all the more harder. I'll keep it for at least 2 weeks on the yeast cake, then a month in secondary, then bottle and try not to drink everything before winter.

This is one of my best beers this far. Maybe I should brew a new batch soon, or at least before I run out of this batch.

 

[sweetcell]

What's the reasoning behind big beers taking longer to carb up? I have one IIPA that is taking a while right now and am curious.

high-alcohol beer is a stressful environment for yeast. as alcohol % rises, yeast starts to die off - essentially choking on their own waste by-products (alcohol). some manage to hang in there, go dormant, etc. by the time you add your bottling sugar there just isn't as much active yeast in there as there was at the peak of fermentation, or in a post-fermentation lower-gravity beer. the yeasties that are left will get around to digesting your bottling sugar eventually. they'll just need more time, since there are less of them to get the job done. that's why you might add new yeast before bottling an aged high-gravity beer: to make up for the lack of primary yeast.

one thing that i've found that helps with carbonation is to occasionally turn the bottles upside-down and gently swirl to get the yeast back in suspension. this increases the chances that the yeast will encounter sugar molecules.

 

[Nyrkki]

I bottled this earlier this week. FG had dropped lower than expected, so it has 11,5-12 % of alcohol. I dryhopped it with about 2 oz. cascade.

After sampling this from the fermenter my expectatitons have risen. This is probably one of the best beers I've made. Lots of malttyness and caramel flavours. The bitterness is just a bit harsh, but this will mellow out, and even if it doesn't I don't mind. The hop flavour is similar to Nogne Imperial IPA and quite close to their barley wine. The dryhopping will probably enhance the hop aroma, which it will need if I mannage to store some bottles for a few years.

I'll post some comments after I've opened the first bottle. Hopefully that won't happen before August...

 

[steveh01420]

So how did your brew come out? I just had a Nogne IIPA #100 and I want to try making one, your recipe looks good.

 

[Nyrkki]

Can't believe I didn't post earlier on the results. The beer came out fantastic. It's been six months in bottles now and still has a decent hop punch. Adding more dry hops could improve this beer, though I think it is really really good as it is. I'll open a bottle tomorrow so I can give proper critique and maybe a pic, as I'll be working late tonight.

 

[Nyrkki]

Well I opened a bottle and I'm sipping it right now. The color is very deep amber and it is quite clear. Head is made from very very small bubbles and carbonation is low as it should be. The head laces it self nicely. Aroma is dominated by cascade citrus, caramel and deep malty flavor. The body is thick enough to give an impression of a high abv brew but still surprisingly quaffable. Flavor-wise I pick caramel, dark toffee, raisins, cascade, oranges and black currant and raspberry leafs. I love the black currant leaf flavor. Dank. It is quite fruity, and the cascade emphisizes this. The beer is quite dry, maybe even too dry for the style, but together with the hop bitterness it makes this beer very drinkable.

This is a really well balanced beer, with a decent hop punch and bitterness to even out all the caramel flavor. The bitterness is spot on. Not too harsh, but able to kill the malty sweetness. There is almost no notes of alcohol, but at warmer temps you can persive it. My GF, who usually is not a fan of high abv beers, estimated the alcohol at no more than 6%, which is half of the actual alcohol content.

Over all I am very pleased with the beer. This is clearly my best high abv brew and apart from my belgian Wit the beer that has been most praised by my friends. When I'll brew this again I'll probably skip the wheat (endangers stability of the beer and makes it too cloudy) and up the dry hops. I might also try to raise the FG with some caramel malts in order to sweeten it up but I really like this slightly drier version of an american barleywine. I will let most of the batch age more as the it hasn't harmed it yet. The yeast choice is spot on, and really allows the malt to shine through.