Ballantine XXX from the 60s

[pulsarxp]

I am looking for a clone recipe for Ballantine XXX from the 60s. I know this discussion has come up in the past from time to time.

When I was in college back in the 60s I used to be in love with Balantine XXX Ale. It had a very distinctive aroma of pine trees. The word back then was the beer contained Juniper Berries.

A couple years ago I was thrilled to find some Ballantine XXX Ale on the shelf of a store in Wisconsin. (It was brewed by Pabst). The stuff was terrible. It tasted like Bud/Coors/Miller. It was not close to the Ballantine I grew to love in the 60s. This new stuff was nothing more then generic Falstaff.

I inqured about all this a couple years ago and was told an old Ballantine emplyee assured a list member there were no Juniper Berries ever used in brewing Ballantine XXX Ale. He said the aroma came from the hops they used. I never have ever smelled hops with an aroma like in the old 60s Ballantine XXX. I don't believe what I was told. I do know the recipe changed from time to time, so maybe at some later date the statement of no Juniper Berries used was true.

Does anyone on here have a clone recipe reflecting the Ballantine XXX Ale I remeber? I think others have gone down this road before me. I sure would like to hear from anyone who has come up with a recipe for this incredable beer.

Thanks,

Lee
Houston, TX

 

[bierhaus15]

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/ballentine-ipa-48302/

Never had the real stuff, but maybe this is a step in the right direction?

 

[BigEd]

Not exactly a clone but this might get you within shouting distance.

Category American Ale
Subcategory American Pale Ale
Recipe Type All Grain
Batch Size 5 gal.
Volume Boiled 6 gal.
Mash Efficiency 72 %
Total Grain/Extract 9.75 lbs.
Total Hops 3.0 oz.


7 lbs. American 2-row
.75 lbs. British Crystal 55°L
2 lbs. Corn Flaked
1 oz. Brewers Gold (7.00 %AA) boiled 60 min.
1 oz. Brewers Gold (7.00 %AA) boiled 30 min.
1 oz. East Kent Goldings (5.00 %AA) boiled 5 min.
Yeast : WYeast 1056 American Ale

Predicted American Pale Ale Compliance
Original Gravity 1.048 1.045 - 1.060 100 %
Terminal Gravity 1.011 1.010 - 1.015 100 %
Color 11.15 °SRM 5.00 - 14.00 °SRM 100 %
Bitterness 44.8 IBU 30.00 - 45.00 IBU 100 %
Alcohol (%volume) 4.9 % 4.50 - 6.00 % 100 %
100 % overall

 

[david_42]

Simcoe, Chinook, Mt.Hood, are all piney hops. However, they are modern hops and weren't around in the '60s.

 

[Revvy]

I was heading to bed when you asked this last night and didn't want to search my notes. On occasion we get asked for Bally or Falstaff beers. I can tell you based on months of research, there isn't much out there, in terms of clones or pseudo tribute recipes.

This is one xxx recipe I did manage to find,

Never having drak the original, I can't state the veracity of this recipe, nor at what periond of Bally's multiple recipe changes due to corporate takeovers and changes it is a clone of. It could be a clone of the early xxx, or could be from before they finally stopped production.

Ballentine XXX Ale All Grain

6-3/4 lb American 2-Row
1/4 lb Munich Malt
3/4 lb Cooked Rice
3/4 lb Flaked Maize
1-1/4 lb Crystal 20L
2 oz Williamette Hops 60 min.
2 oz Williamette Hops 5 min.
1 tsp Irish Moss 15 min.
Wyeast 1056 American Ale
3/4 cup Corn Sugar for priming

Mash grains for 30 minutes at 135 degrees F. Raise the mash temperature to 160 degrees F and mash an additional 30 minutes.
Sparge and collect wort. Bring wort to a boil, and add 2 oz Williamette hops. Boil 45 minutes. Add irish moss boil 10 minutes. Add 2oz Williamette hops and boil 5 minutes. Cool wort and pitch yeast.
First Fermentation 5-7 days
Secondary Fermentation 3-5 days. Drop temperature to 40 degrees F and condition an additonal 2 days. Bottle or keg. Age 3-4 weeks before serving.


Ballentine XXX Ale Extract

1/8 lb Crystal 20L
1 lb Flaked Maize
3/4 lb Maris Otter
1/4 lb Carapils
4 lb Alexanders Pale Extract
1 lb Plain Extra Light Dry Malt
1 lb Rice Syrup
2 oz Williamette Hops 60 min.
2 oz Williamette Hops 5 min.
1 tsp Irish Moss 15 min.
Wyeast 1056 American Ale
3/4 cup Corn Sugar for priming Steep grains for 30 minutes at 155 degrees F. Remove grains and stir in extracts and rice syrup. Bring to boil. Add boiling hops and boil for 45 minutes. Add Irish Moss and boil for 10 minutes. Add finishing hops and boil for 5 minutes. Cool wort and pitch yeast. Ferment for 5-7 days at 70 degrees F. Secondary Fermentation 5 days at 65 degrees. Drop temperature to 40 degrees F and condition an additonal 2 days. Bottle or keg. Age 3-4 weeks before serving.

Bally's and Falstaff are intertwined in brewing history. Here is a great website on the story...

History of Falstaff Beer and the Falstaff Brewing Corp.

THere's some more discussion and info in this thread.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f14/beer-history-sites-58021/#post589609

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/falstaff-78030/

 

[niquejim]

This one is supposed to be close

Bob G' Recipes

Ballantine IPA Project Beer

A ProMash Recipe Report


BJCP Style and Style Guidelines
07-0 India Pale Ale, India Pale Ale

Min OG: 1.050 Max OG: 1.075
Min IBU: 40 Max IBU: 60
Min Clr: 8 Max Clr: 14 Color in SRM, Lovibond


Recipe Specifics
Batch Size (Gal): 11.00 Wort Size (Gal): 11.00
Total Grain (Lbs): 27.50
Anticipated OG: 1.075 Plato: 18.12
Anticipated SRM: 8.0
Anticipated IBU: 63.2
Brewhouse Efficiency: 80 %
Wort Boil Time: 90 Minutes


Pre-Boil Amounts
Evaporation Rate: 1.66 Gallons Per Hour
Pre-Boil Wort Size: 13.49 Gal
Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.061 SG 14.94 Plato


Formulas Used
Brewhouse Efficiency and Predicted Gravity based on Method #1, Potential Used.
Final Gravity Calculation Based on Points.
Hard Value of Sucrose applied. Value for recipe: 46.2100 ppppg
% Yield Type used in Gravity Prediction: Fine Grind Dry Basis.

Color Formula Used: Morey
Hop IBU Formula Used: TinsethTinseth Concentration Factor: 1.30

Additional Utilization Used For Plug Hops: 2 %
Additional Utilization Used For Pellet Hops: 8 %


Grain/Extract/Sugar
% Amount Name Origin Potential SRM
72.7 20.00 lbs. Pale Malt(6-row) America 1.035 2
14.5 4.00 lbs. Flaked Corn (Maize) America 1.040 1
7.3 2.00 lbs. Corn Sugar 1.047 0
5.5 1.50 lbs. Crystal 60L America 1.034 60

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.

Hops
Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
3.00 oz. Bullion Pellet 7.60 38.7 90 min
3.00 oz. Cluster Whole 7.00 23.7 30 min
2.00 oz. Czech Saaz Whole 3.28 0.8 2 min
4.00 oz. Czech Saaz Whole 3.28 0.0 Dry Hop


Yeast
US-56, WY1056 or WLP001


Water Profile
Profile: Burton On Trent
Profile known for: Strong Pale Ales
Calcium(Ca): 268.0 ppm
Magnesium(Mg): 62.0 ppm
Sodium(Na): 30.0 ppm
Sulfate(SO4): 638.0 ppm
Chloride(Cl): 36.0 ppm
biCarbonate(HCO3): 141.0 ppm
pH: 8.33


Mash Schedule
Mash Type: Single Step
Grain Lbs: 25.50
Water Qts: 36.00 Before Additional Infusions
Water Gal: 9.00 Before Additional Infusions
Qts Water Per Lbs Grain: 1.41 Before Additional Infusions

Rest Temp Time
Saccharification Rest: 148 90 Min
Mash-out Rest: 170 10 Min
Sparge: 180 40 Min

Total Mash Volume Gal: 11.04 - Dough-In Infusion Only
All temperature measurements are degrees Fahrenheit.

Notes
Upon racking to the kegs, add .25 ounce of med American toasted oak chips per keg, carbonate and let it age at cellar temps for 1 year. Then stand back and wait for Nirvana in the glass.

 

[Teacher]

That's the IPA. The XXX is/was a different beer, more of a generic pale ale.

 

[Revvy]

That's the IPA. The XXX is/was a different beer, more of a generic pale ale.

Yeah, I was just going to say the same thing...

That's a recipe for this;

He wants this;

 

[niquejim]

Yeah, I was just going to say the same thing...

That's a recipe for this;

He wants this;

Oops
I've never had either so I guess I missed that

I do know that Ballantine used a special hop oil that they produced, which could be why the hop flavor was unusual in their beers

 

[Revvy]

Oops
I've never had either so I guess I missed that

I do know that Ballantine used a special hop oil that they produced, which could be why the hop flavor was unusual in their beers

It's one of those regional pre-MBC Corporate takeover stories that has always fascinated me.

This is a good article if you haven't read it. It actually tracks the breweries and recipe changes over the history of the name.

The late, great Ballantine. Modern Brewery Age, March 27, 2000 by Greg Glaser

 

[Revvy]

niquejim, re-reading the opening paragraphs of that article;

Mention the name Ballantine to beer lovers, especially beer lovers with more than a few flecks of gray in their beards, and more often than not they will begin to rhapsodize rapturously about this famous ale. You'll hear stories of old bottles mysteriously and wondrously discovered and tasted; tales of long-discarded techniques employed by the original brewers; accounts of the slow, steady decline of the beer's greatness as it passed from brewery to brewery, the result of corporate takeovers.

Beer writers often praise Ballantine. Michael Jackson, writing in the August 1980 British beer journal, "What's Brewing," described Ballantine IPA as "wonderfully distinctive ... an outstanding American ale unique in its fidelity to the East Coast tradition of Colonial ales." More recently, in the February-March 2000 "Celebrator Beer News," Fred Eckhardt wrote, "Ballantine IPA would be a good choice for the greatest and most enduring American brewing triumph of the early and mid-20th century." Pat Baker stated in an interview, "Ballantine IPA was just such a beautiful looking beer. It had a deep amber color and a sparkling head. And of course the hops were just monstrous. It was one of those beer tasting experiences that just stays with you."

Got me thinking I might want to try brewing the ipa recipe you posted....

 

[Revvy]

Here's info on the IPA changes;

Through all these moves, Ballantine ales constantly changed character. The brands most often brewed were Ballantine XXX and Ballantine IPA, the latter being the most widely loved and praised. In Newark, Ballantine IPA was a strong, 7.5% abv amber ale with great hop bitterness (60 International Bittering Units or IBUs) and a powerful hop aroma. This aroma came from hop oils distilled from Bullion hops at the brewery and added to the storage tanks. These tanks them-selves were unique, in that they were made of oak. Ballantine IPA was aged for a full year in the wood, a technique unheard of today except for the most artisanal microbrewery. The woody character found in Ballantine IPA was as important to the beer's profile as were the hop oils. The Newark brewery also produced a special ale named Ballantine Burton. This extra strong beer, perhaps 10% abv, was aged an amazing ten years in wood and bottled sporadically as holiday gifts to brewery employees and friends. The labels created for these bottles would sta te the date the beer was brewed and bottled and the name of the recipient.

When Ballantine moved to Rhode Island, the IPA aging was first lowered to nine months, then six and finally to five. Oak barrels were replaced by wax-coated cyprus, according to Bill Anderson, Narragansett's master brewer in the early 1970s. Hop oils continued to be used for a while, with a distillation unit on premises, but this process was later abandoned. Overall IBUs for the IPA dropped to 50, then 45. Bullion hops were used at first, but were later changed to a blend of Brewers' Gold and American Yakima. The IPA was dry hopped in storage tanks after the hops were put through what Anderson called a hammer mill. "We ground them to a consistency that was a cross between corn flakes and sawdust," he remembers. The strength of the beer remained constant during most of the Narragansett years, at 7.5% abv, but Anderson says this was later reduced to 6.7%.

And XXX

I couldn't find anyone to provide notes on Ballantine when it was brewed in Milwaukee, Tumwater or San Antonio, but I did speak with Dan Melideo, master brewer at Pabst's Lehigh Valley plant, Ballantine's present home. Melideo says that today Ballantine XXX, the only Ballantine in production, finishes with a strength of 5.45% abv (a far cry from the original) and is hopped to a bitterness of about 22 IBUs (again, much lower than in the past). And the hops have changed again. Melideo uses Cascade hops in the boil and also in storage to dry hop the beer. Aging in wood remains a thing of the past. Jim Walter, VP of Business Administration for Pabst, explains that Ballantine XXX is marketed primarily in the northeast corridor with some sales in the Mid West and West Coast. He says that in the future Pabst may also see a market develop for Ballantine IPA.

Before joining Pabst in China, Alan Kornhauser was a brewer at Portland Brewing in Portland, Oregon. While there he wanted to recreate the Ballantine he knew and loved from years ago, and to introduce this re-creation to West Coast beer lovers, unfamiliar with the old ale. He says he brewed the best version of Ballantine XXX he could in 1996. The beer, originally named Summer Ale, is now called Portland Pale Ale in some parts of the country, and Kornhauser's Oast Ale in the Pacific Northwest, where it is available from April through August. Kornhauser wanted to use hop oils just as was originally done in Newark and Rhode Island, and he built a still to extract oils from Oregon-grown Brewers' Gold hops. Not completely satisfied with the results, he sent a batch of hops to England where he knew of an established hop distillery. The hop oil returned to Oregon was blended with the oil he extracted and used in his ale. The result is a 4.7% abv ale with about 28 IBUs and a highly aromatic fragrance from the hop oi ls. In comparing it to his benchmark, Ballantine XXX, Kornhauser says that for flavor it rated eight on scale often, but for hops it was a perfect ten. "The burp after a few sips was all hop oil," recalls the proud brewer. The Narragansett-brewed Ballantine IPA was the model Kornhauser used when he developed Woodstock IPA for Portland Brewing, a beer in year-round production. Woodstock is a 6.3% abv ale with 45 IBUs (no hop oil, but plenty of dry hops) and a noticeable woody flavor from Kornhauser's "secret oak aging process."

Sigh.....

It's safe to say that bottles of the old, original Ballantine IPA, the Newark and even the Rhode Island versions, are not to be found today. If any exist, the beer would have aged into something completely different, as have old bottles of Ballantine Burton. With regrets, none of us can taste this highly lauded ale. With Pabst's Ballantine XXX being brewed so differently from the original, it's hardly fair to compare it with the older version. The most that diehard beer lovers can do is read the reviews of the past, talk with any gray-beards they can find who tasted the original Ballantine ales and search out microbreweries such as Portland Brewing Company who brew hoppy ales. Those are our best chances of getting even the slightest handle on the late, great ale they called Ballantine.

 

[BigEd]

Pulsarxp, rest assured that the Ballantine did not contain any juniper. The old XXX is a beer I fondly remember and if you brew my recipe in the earlier post I think you will be pleased. I have seen the other posted recipes for the IPA previously and while I cannot say it with 100% surety, I seriously doubt there were Saaz hops in the Ballantine Ales. I don't see anyone in my area in this thread but to those in the Southern New England vicinity I will bring a sample of the IPA recipe in https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/ballentine-ipa-48302/ to Blackstone Valley Brewing Supplies in Woonsocket, RI this Saturday afternoon. Bill Anderson, the former Brewmaster at the Falstaff/Narragansett Brewery in Cranston, RI, sampled the beer from that recipe and said it was the closest he had to the old Ballantine IPA. I'm not claiming it's the world's best recipe but it's pretty damned good.

 

[niquejim]

Pulsarxp, rest assured that the Ballantine did not contain any juniper. The old XXX is a beer I fondly remember and if you brew my recipe in the earlier post I think you will be pleased. I have seen the other posted recipes for the IPA previously and while I cannot say it with 100% surety, I seriously doubt there were Saaz hops in the Ballantine Ales. I don't see anyone in my area in this thread but to those in the Southern New England vicinity I will bring a sample of the IPA recipe in https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/ballentine-ipa-48302/ to Blackstone Valley Brewing Supplies in Woonsocket, RI this Saturday afternoon. Bill Anderson, the former Brewmaster at the Falstaff/Narragansett Brewery in Cranston, RI, sampled the beer from that recipe and said it was the closest he had to the old Ballantine IPA. I'm not claiming it's the world's best recipe but it's pretty damned good.

I doubt that there were Saaz hops also, but as I also doubt that any of us can make there own hop oil, they may have been a good replacement

 

[Revvy]

Pulsarxp, rest assured that the Ballantine did not contain any juniper. The old XXX is a beer I fondly remember and if you brew my recipe in the earlier post I think you will be pleased. I have seen the other posted recipes for the IPA previously and while I cannot say it with 100% surety, I seriously doubt there were Saaz hops in the Ballantine Ales. I don't see anyone in my area in this thread but to those in the Southern New England vicinity I will bring a sample of the IPA recipe in https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/ballentine-ipa-48302/ to Blackstone Valley Brewing Supplies in Woonsocket, RI this Saturday afternoon. Bill Anderson, the former Brewmaster at the Falstaff/Narragansett Brewery in Cranston, RI, sampled the beer from that recipe and said it was the closest he had to the old Ballantine IPA. I'm not claiming it's the world's best recipe but it's pretty damned good.

If you read the bits that I posted you would have noticed that in the article it stated;

This aroma came from hop oils distilled from Bullion hops at the brewery and added to the storage tanks.

Palmer actually says that the subs for bullion if you can't find it is;

Brewer's Gold, Northern Brewer

Other sites say this about bullion

Appropriate for English Ales and heavier German Lagers. Not recommended for finishing or flavoring but very useful as a base bittering hop. Typical alpha acid 11.6%

And for Chinook, Eroica & Bullion are subs.... it's odd that evidently a purely bittering hop was used for aroma and flavor as well...But who knows with hop oils.

But the article I posted gives some clues to at least get the numbers right..

But again BigEd, the OP is looking for XXX NOT the Ipa....But your IPA recipe looks great

 

[Teacher]

while I cannot say it with 100% surety, I seriously doubt there were Saaz hops in the Ballantine Ales.

In my Ballantine research I came across an interview with an old guy who had worked at Ballantine in New Jersey. I'm pretty sure the hop used in late addition was Spalt, maybe Sterling...but it was definitely what we would (at least now) consider a typical lager hop.

 

[Revvy]

And by the way, Saaz has been used in beers since 1918.....I can't find an actual first brew date for the IPA, except that it was in the "early in the 20th century,) so it's not THAT far fetched that Saaz could have been used in that time period....

 

[Revvy]

In my Ballantine research I came across an interview with an old guy who had worked at Ballantine in New Jersey. I'm pretty sure the hop used in late addition was Spalt, maybe Sterling...but it was definitely what we would (at least now) consider a typical lager hop.

+1

Sterling and Saaz are often subs for each other....

Teacher, have you ever browsed through the Ballantine Ale falstaaf/Ballantine tribute page?

 

[Schlenkerla]

And by the way, Saaz has been used in beers since 1918.....I can't find an actual first brew date for the IPA, except that it was in the "early in the 20th century,) so it's not THAT far fetched that Saaz could have been used in that time period....

Exactly - It still a noble from Czechoslovakia. I'd guess its been used a lot longer.

1004 AD - Records don't exactly say 1004 but indicate ~ 800 years of use.

History of Saaz


Its very likely to have been used. I'm guessing it was just about any kind of noble hop that was readily available and cheap.

 

[Revvy]

Exactly - It still a noble from Czechoslovakia. I'd guess its been used a lot longer.

1004 AD

History of Saaz


Its very likely to have been used. I'm guessing it was just about any kind of noble hop that was readily available and cheap.

That's really freaking cool I tried googling "history of saaz" and didn't come up with that chart...only the wikipedia under hops said 1918's..

How'd you find that nifty chart? I've never seen a "google timeline" before.

 

[Schlenkerla]

That's really freaking cool I tried googling "history of saaz" and didn't come up with that chart...only the wikipedia under hops said 1918's..

How'd you find that nifty chart? I've never seen a "google timeline" before.

I don't know. I had too look through several websites to find it, most of which were travel websites. I just stumbled across the thing.

BTW - I got a job yesterday or word that an offer was pending.... waiting for the offer this morning.

 

[Schlenkerla]

Revvy - Use the google, show options look for a blue + sign.

You get a sidebar with "Timeline" in the list.

 

[Schlenkerla]

Heres another... works good!!!!

History of Hallertauer

 

[Revvy]

Oh cool!!

And congrats on the job!!!!

It's really neat to see so many people interested in Ballies this time around, I think this has more people involved than any other time a thread about the brewery has come up. Like I said earlier, their story has always fascinated me (as does brewery history in general) and it sucks that I never got to taste the Ales.

If any one is interested, I have a bunch of Ballantine ads in my old vintage beer ad thread. https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f5/more-vintage-beer-ads-72778/

 

[Schlenkerla]

Looky what I gotz!!!

​

 

[Revvy]

Looky what I gotz!!!

Sweeeeeeeet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[XXguy]

That kind of pretzel-looking logo is what I remember about Ballantine as a kid. My one uncle used to love the stuff.

Thanks for the history lesson guys - I'm liking these historical brew recipes... gives me a chance to have a taste of history in person!

 

[niquejim]

Looky what I gotz!!!

​

If that was a 1964 bottled Burton Ale I would be far more jealous

 

[chuggs]

Dang...I didn't know it came in Aluminum cans. I figured the taste you're looking for is due to the fact it was canned in steel cans.

Take a RING...
and then another RING...
and then another RING...
You've got three RINGS...
Ballentine...

(Can't remember the rest of the words to the jingle...God am I old, or what?)

 

[SpanishCastleAle]

Never heard of Ballantine but what a great thread to learn about it. Sounds like they really went to great lengths to make the best beer they could until bean-counters got their way. Gotta respect that.

Regarding the hop oil...I piddled with distilling some hops/water and you def get some strong aroma in this 'hop water'. Here's a quick description and pics of the kluge-still.. Don't know if this would do anything for this beer but thought I'd post it anyhow.