Bad CO2 in China?

[alecsf]

Hi All, and thanks for many happy hours of productive reading and guidance.

Over the weekend, bored, distracted and perhaps a little lethargic (RDWH4HB - I did, thanks), I ordered a 4L bottle of CO2 from Taobao.com (Chinese Ebay; I live in South China).

So far, I'm unable to get confirmation that this is 'Beverage Grade CO2'. (Yeah, I called the guy who owns the Taobao store. Apparently he was just following orders.) I've checked out and searched here on HomeBrewTalk, and here's what I've found:

1 - Most posters say that CO2 is CO2; don't worry about the provenance; "I'm still alive," etc.

2 - One poster (MarkNovak; Thanks Mark [Post 6 on the page]) says this:

________________________

All:
There is a HUGE difference in various CO2 QVL's (Quality Verification Levels - there are five).
ISBT (International Society of Beverage Technologists) has CO2 Guidelines for quality - this is what you want. Also CGA G-6.2 QVL I is Beverage Grade CO2 equivalent to ISBT.
"Food Grade" is QVL H. It is technically not Food Grade, it is Food Processing Grade.
Beverage Grade/Quality (ISBT/CGA G-6.2 QVL I) mandates many more impurities be removed that are not even checked in QVL H such as:
Benzene (yes BENZENE), ammonia, phosphine, much lower levels of sulfur and acetaldehyde both of which will affect taste, oil and grease and methanol.
You don't want higher levels of sulfur and acetaldahyde and you sure don't want unchecked benzene levels.
________________________

As far as I can see, nobody's really addressed Mark's issues with non-food-grade (or more properly, non-beverage-grade) CO2, EXCEPT the guys who use Welder's CO2 which, apparently, has its own purity requirements equaling / exceeding Food Grade or Beverage Grade CO2.

Beyond this, some posters have said that Food Grade CO2 is more about the gas bottle than the contents. IE the contents are the very same, but the gas bottle is glass-lined to prevent rust (WTF? is it OK for a 600+PSI CO2 bottle to rust away from the inside? In these temps, that's more like 800PSI if it's outside the fridge, and that's where these bottles get stored before purchase.) and contamination.


As far as I can see I have three options here:

1 - Bin the gas and the bottle, write off the loss (about 34 USD) or sell/give it to a fish-tank person (apparently they also need CO2; Who knew?!).
2 - Let the gas out of the bottle, refill the bottle and re-use it.
3 - Use the gas, and then refill the bottle, and learn to (Dr Strangelove!) stop worrying about the difference between CO2 (Food / Beverage Grade) and CO2 (other).

I'd be grateful for your thoughts.

Bear in mind, this is China, home of the Melamine Baby-Milk Scandal and many more...

Thanks in advance! Pics Below: (NB- Pics have not come out in the preview. One Cheer for the Great Firewall! Let's see if they survive the post...)

1 - The guts of my kegerator (only one beer on tap right now: English Hop Monster), carrying my original gas bottle (bought from a US-born currently China Based beer champion, Tim, who also built the kegerator. I know, I know, I should'a built it myself... I'm going to build one soon...). The gas bottle barely holds a KG. The ugly shelf is my own responsibility.

2 - My New Gas Bottle, as delivered today.

3 & 4 - The document that came with my New Gas Bottle, in case anybody here reads Chinese properly. Sorry. My Chinese reading ability (after 10+years) stretches to SMSs, Menus and Road Signs, but not technical documents.

Links I found to forums here:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f35/food-grade-c02-260588/
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f35/food...al-co2-199270/
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f35/co2-kegging-322631/
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f35/ther...al-co2-180925/
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f35/what...i-need-220097/

...all at
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f35/food-grade-co2-58297/index2.html

Any comments welcome, and thanks in advance for your thoughts...

Alec

 

[jahdub]

My thought is that CO2 is CO2. That said, I imagine there is much less concern of actually giving pure CO2 for non-human-consumption purposes. The CO2 is definitely the same, but who knows what else is in there.

 

[k1ngl1ves]

Put the tin foil hat down and walk away...

CO2 is CO2... unless it's not CO2. In that case, don't use it.


I'd be more concerned with China's air quality, that you breathe 24 hours a day, than a bottle of CO2.

Don't chew on the bottle though... it's probably lead paint. Lol!

 

[alecsf]

Thanks for the responses.

jahdub

The CO2 is definitely the same, but who knows what else is in there.

My concerns precisely.

k1ngl1ves

Put the tin foil hat down and walk away...

I didn't realize my webcam was switched on.

I'd be more concerned with China's air quality, that you breathe 24 hours a day, than a bottle of CO2.

It's [COUGH!] not so bad if you filter it through cigarettes.

Don't chew on the bottle though... it's probably lead paint.

Lead paint? Is it someone's birthday? Usually we chew discarded nuclear waste.

 

[fuzzy2133]

Tough call. I am willing to bet that what is inside will not kill you to use this one time. I would on the refill find a place that will sell you the proper CO2 since you have a concern (I would too being unfamiliar with China's regulations or how a shop operates). Be crappy to get find out you just got blended welding CO2.

FWIW the 2 places that I get my CO2 from have customers that need all different grades. They only have one massive bulk tank (more like a silo) that all CO2 fills from (welding, beverage and medical) and the price deference is in certification the CO2 meets the purity requirements.

 

[alecsf]

Thanks fuzzy2133.

I think what I'm going to do is drive to the nearest CO2 plant with the full bottle and ask their advice. What I'm expecting is to empty the bottle and refill it with beverage-grade CO2 (should cost about $10 plus the fuel for the round trip). If they won't do that, then I'm back to square one. Last time, they offered to sell me a 12L bottle for beverage grade at about $150, and I declined. Interesting to see what they say next weekend...

Some people have posted that the bottle (not the contents) is the difference between beverage-grade and other CO2, as the bev-grade bottles are glass-lined. I'm going to have fun trying to explain all this to the CO2 guys in Chinese.

 

[Monkeykler]

Thanks fuzzy2133.

I think what I'm going to do is drive to the nearest CO2 plant with the full bottle and ask their advice. What I'm expecting is to empty the bottle and refill it with beverage-grade CO2 (should cost about $10 plus the fuel for the round trip). If they won't do that, then I'm back to square one. Last time, they offered to sell me a 12L bottle for beverage grade at about $150, and I declined. Interesting to see what they say next weekend...

Some people have posted that the bottle (not the contents) is the difference between beverage-grade and other CO2, as the bev-grade bottles are glass-lined. I'm going to have fun trying to explain all this to the CO2 guys in Chinese.

What were the results on this?