Aw D$%&, I forgot the Irish Moss!

[Gameface]

You can always filter which is what I do most people poo poo it, but in my mind, it does what others wait weeks for in about 2-3 minutes.

2-3 minutes?!?!? Filtering for me took at a minimum 30 min if everything went like a dream. Could often take more than 2 hours when trying to force 10g through a coarse and fine plate filter.

 

[millstone]

Basic Brewing did a podcast on the effects of Irish Moss and other fining agents, it was on 6/10/10.

tom

 

[kombat]

I have no real idea of what;whirlfloc, wlp002, irishmoss, *flocc?, or the gelatin you have spoken of are.

Whirlfloc is a product you add at the end of the boil. It causes proteins in the boil to coagulate and clump together, reducing the amount of proteins that would otherwise stay in solution right through until the first time the finished beer is chilled (where it would then precipitate as "chill haze," causing the beer to be cloudy). It's basically the same thing as Irish moss (which is cheaper).

WLP002 is a liquid yeast from White Labs.

Irish Moss is a kind of seaweed which is dried and crushed up, and added to the wort near the end of the boil. It does the same thing as Whirlfloc.

*flocc is not a thing I'm aware of. "Flocculation" describes a yeast's propensity to clump together, which causes it to precipitate out of solution faster (because the bigger clumps weigh more). A "low flocculating yeast" is one that will take longer to fall out of solution, resulting in cloudier beer.

Gelatin is the same kind of gelatin that is on the shelf at your grocery store. You mix it up and add it to the beer after fermentation has finished. It helps "pull" precipitates out of suspension, assisting in clearing the beer. To prepare it, sprinkle 1 tbsp of it into 1 cup of room-temperature water. Leave it for 20 minutes to "bloom." Then heat it up in the microwave, 15-20 seconds at a time, until it reaches 150-160° F. DO NOT let it boil. Then stir to ensure it's dissolved, and pour it into the beer. If you can cool the beer beforehand (i.e., move the fermenter into a refrigerator a day or two prior to adding the gelatin), it will be much more effective.

I end up with very clear beer, because I take measures at several points in the brewing process. I do the following:

• At the end of mashing, I use a grant and a pump to recirculate the wort back into the mash/lauter tun until it's clear. Then I switch the output of the grant to the boil kettle instead of recirculating. This means that once I've started drawing runnings from the mash/lauter tun, I don't have to close the valve while switching to the kettle, then re-open it, which can disturb the grain bed.
• I use a hop screen to contain my pellet hops during the boil.
• I use Irish Moss in the last 10 minutes of the boil.
• I chill extremely quickly, using a plate chiller, a pump, and a cooler full of ice water. I get my wort from boiling down to 65° F in about 6-7 minutes.
• I recirculate my wort from the chiller back into the kettle during chilling, instead of going straight to the fermenter. Then, once chilled, I rack the wort from the kettle to the fermenter using an autosiphon. This allows me to siphon the wort from the "top down," getting all the clear stuff first, then at the end, I can stop the siphon once I get to the break-rich dregs at the bottom.
• I leave my beers for 3 weeks to ferment and begin clearing.
• I cold crash in a fridge.
• I add gelatin and leave it for another 3-4 days.
• I keg my beers, so after a couple more weeks in the keg, the beer is crystal clear.

 

[Roadie]

Just reading this now but we went through a period where like 3 brews in a row we forgot the whirlfloc. Finally we would put the container next to the measured hops to be added to the BK so we wouldn't forget and that has seemed to work. You can tell a difference in brightness but not taste.

We've had good luck with the couple of beers where we used gelatin. I put in keezer for a couple weeks to carb up and usually toward the end of that period is when I add the gelatin. I wait about 3 days and then pour a couple of glasses down the drain and after that the beer is very clear. We are serving a few of our beers at a festival in 2 weeks and I have a PtY clone that I just added gelatin to yesterday as I wanted it to pour clear and it had a definite hop haze from the 4 separate dry hops over 4 weeks time. Hoping the gelatin doesn't strip away too much of the hop flavor but it was over the top hoppy (288 IBU in Beersmith) so could lose a little without much of an issue.

 

[ny101]

2-3 minutes?!?!? Filtering for me took at a minimum 30 min if everything went like a dream. Could often take more than 2 hours when trying to force 10g through a coarse and fine plate filter.

2-3 Minutes might have been a bit low but I can probably do 5 gallons in no more than 10 minutes.

Maybe it's the difference between plate filters and cylindrical ones?! I use 9-3/4" Pentek Pleated Cellulose-Polyester ECP1-10 which, according to the datasheet, can do about 10 gallons per min. I tend to do it little slower, since my fittings don't take ~1 psi that well.

 

[kombat]

I have a PtY clone that I just added gelatin to yesterday as I wanted it to pour clear and it had a definite hop haze from the 4 separate dry hops over 4 weeks time. Hoping the gelatin doesn't strip away too much of the hop flavor but it was over the top hoppy (288 IBU in Beersmith) so could lose a little without much of an issue.

A couple comments here.

Firstly, adding gelatin to the keg will clear the beer, but only if you don't move the keg. Once you move the keg, you disturb the sediment at the bottom and it mixes back up into suspension. If you want/need to move the keg, and you want the beer to be clear, then you have to rack it to another keg after letting the gelatin clear it.

Secondly, unfortunately, yes gelatin does indeed strip away hop flavour and aroma. If you're making a big, hoppy beer, and you want clarity, then you need to cold crash and add gelatin before adding the dry hops. Ideally, you would rack the beer to another vessel after clearing it with gelatin, but before adding the dry hops. Yes, this will impart some "hop haze" to the beer and it won't be perfectly clear, but that's to style for IPAs/Double IPAs, and it's a necessary aspect of a really hoppy beer.

Thirdly, the IBU level has nothing to do with hoppiness. IBU is a measure of bitterness, not hoppiness. Dry hopping adds hop flavour and aroma, but no IBUs (additional bitterness) whatsoever. Gelatin will not strip away bitterness (thus, your IBU level will remain the same), but it will strip away the hop flavour and aroma imparted by dry hopping.

In short, if you're making a big, hoppy beer to be transported and served on-site, and you want it as clear as possible, then the ideal sequence would be:

• Ferment for 3 weeks
• Cold crash for 2 days
• Add gelatin, leave refrigerated for 3-4 more days
• Carefully rack beer to another fermenter, leaving behind as much sediment as possible
• Allow beer to warm back up to room temperature (since hop oils are more soluble at warmer temperatures)
• Dry hop for 7-10 days
• Cold crash again for 2-3 days
• Rack to a keg, again leaving behind sediment (i.e., pellet hop gunk), begin carbonating

That's as clear as you can get a hoppy beer, without sacrificing hop flavour and aroma by filtering or adding post-dry-hopping gelatin.

 

[rekoob]

If that's the only thing you have to worry about with your beer, awesome.
Keg, add CO2, wait, drink.

 

[nick_crank]

Whirlfloc is a product you add at the end of the boil. It causes proteins in the boil to coagulate and clump together, reducing the amount of proteins that would otherwise stay in solution right through until the first time the finished beer is chilled (where it would then precipitate as "chill haze," causing the beer to be cloudy). It's basically the same thing as Irish moss (which is cheaper).

WLP002 is a liquid yeast from White Labs.

Irish Moss is a kind of seaweed which is dried and crushed up, and added to the wort near the end of the boil. It does the same thing as Whirlfloc.

*flocc is not a thing I'm aware of. "Flocculation" describes a yeast's propensity to clump together, which causes it to precipitate out of solution faster (because the bigger clumps weigh more). A "low flocculating yeast" is one that will take longer to fall out of solution, resulting in cloudier beer.

Gelatin is the same kind of gelatin that is on the shelf at your grocery store. You mix it up and add it to the beer after fermentation has finished. It helps "pull" precipitates out of suspension, assisting in clearing the beer. To prepare it, sprinkle 1 tbsp of it into 1 cup of room-temperature water. Leave it for 20 minutes to "bloom." Then heat it up in the microwave, 15-20 seconds at a time, until it reaches 150-160° F. DO NOT let it boil. Then stir to ensure it's dissolved, and pour it into the beer. If you can cool the beer beforehand (i.e., move the fermenter into a refrigerator a day or two prior to adding the gelatin), it will be much more effective.

I end up with very clear beer, because I take measures at several points in the brewing process. I do the following:

• At the end of mashing, I use a grant and a pump to recirculate the wort back into the mash/lauter tun until it's clear. Then I switch the output of the grant to the boil kettle instead of recirculating. This means that once I've started drawing runnings from the mash/lauter tun, I don't have to close the valve while switching to the kettle, then re-open it, which can disturb the grain bed.
• I use a hop screen to contain my pellet hops during the boil.
• I use Irish Moss in the last 10 minutes of the boil.
• I chill extremely quickly, using a plate chiller, a pump, and a cooler full of ice water. I get my wort from boiling down to 65° F in about 6-7 minutes.
• I recirculate my wort from the chiller back into the kettle during chilling, instead of going straight to the fermenter. Then, once chilled, I rack the wort from the kettle to the fermenter using an autosiphon. This allows me to siphon the wort from the "top down," getting all the clear stuff first, then at the end, I can stop the siphon once I get to the break-rich dregs at the bottom.
• I leave my beers for 3 weeks to ferment and begin clearing.
• I cold crash in a fridge.
• I add gelatin and leave it for another 3-4 days.
• I keg my beers, so after a couple more weeks in the keg, the beer is crystal clear.

Thank ypu so much for the breakdown! Very helpful#

 

[NickTheGreat]

I just did my first beer with moss. Going to rack soon.

Question--should the wort have looked different during the boil? I mean, should there have been a big wad of sludge that came out of suspension? Maybe I'll have my answer when I rack, but the wort (and now beer) looked no different than the non-mossed stuff I've always made.

 

[SquidPope]

I'll definitely be using Irish Moss the next time I make the ale that's sitting in my fridge now; the first bottle I poured looked suspiciously like beige milk

 

[Roadie]

A couple comments here.



Firstly, adding gelatin to the keg will clear the beer, but only if you don't move the keg. Once you move the keg, you disturb the sediment at the bottom and it mixes back up into suspension. If you want/need to move the keg, and you want the beer to be clear, then you have to rack it to another keg after letting the gelatin clear it.



Secondly, unfortunately, yes gelatin does indeed strip away hop flavour and aroma. If you're making a big, hoppy beer, and you want clarity, then you need to cold crash and add gelatin before adding the dry hops. Ideally, you would rack the beer to another vessel after clearing it with gelatin, but before adding the dry hops. Yes, this will impart some "hop haze" to the beer and it won't be perfectly clear, but that's to style for IPAs/Double IPAs, and it's a necessary aspect of a really hoppy beer.



Thirdly, the IBU level has nothing to do with hoppiness. IBU is a measure of bitterness, not hoppiness. Dry hopping adds hop flavour and aroma, but no IBUs (additional bitterness) whatsoever. Gelatin will not strip away bitterness (thus, your IBU level will remain the same), but it will strip away the hop flavour and aroma imparted by dry hopping.



In short, if you're making a big, hoppy beer to be transported and served on-site, and you want it as clear as possible, then the ideal sequence would be:

• Ferment for 3 weeks
  
• Cold crash for 2 days
  
• Add gelatin, leave refrigerated for 3-4 more days
  
• Carefully rack beer to another fermenter, leaving behind as much sediment as possible
  
• Allow beer to warm back up to room temperature (since hop oils are more soluble at warmer temperatures)
  
• Dry hop for 7-10 days
  
• Cold crash again for 2-3 days
  
• Rack to a keg, again leaving behind sediment (i.e., pellet hop gunk), begin carbonating
  

That's as clear as you can get a hoppy beer, without sacrificing hop flavour and aroma by filtering or adding post-dry-hopping gelatin.

Thanks for your comments on my post. When we transport our beers to the event we will get there and set up a few hours before the start of the event and that should allow the sentiment to settle back down. The gelatin was to settle out the hop haze created FROM dryhopping. I did 4 separate dryhops each for 4-7 days and this created the haze in the beer that was relatively bright before I started it. I figure it would strip away some aroma but it had a very high hop aroma to begin with so think I'll be ok. And yes I dryhopped at 70 degrees. The IBU's came from the pound of hops and 17 - 5 m/l hop shots not from the pound of hops used in dryhopping.


Almost Famous Brewing Company

 

[kombat]

Understood. It just seems counterproductive to me to do a big dry-hop, then use gelatin to strip out all the hop aroma/flavour you just added.

You cannot have a crystal-clear beer with a huge hop aroma. The hops add a slight haze to the beer. This affects flavour, but not in the same way as chill haze (proteins) or residual yeast (as in a hefeweizen). In the case of an IPA, the haze translates directly to huge hop flavour and aroma. As I said, it's to style. It's *supposed* to be a little hazy, as long as it's hop haze, and not chill haze or residual yeast.

 

[Durhamite]

I forget my whirfloc about 50% of the time. After a few weeks in the keg at serving temp, pretty much all of my beers are basically crystal clear.