Automated HERMS system

[blackheart]

After some more wiring, testing, soldering etc, we are nearly 100% done with the build and ready to start testing!

Their is good news/bad news so lets start off with the good news....

We wired all the status lights on the control panel, Here is everything lighting up and working correctly! pretty cool looking.

And here we are testing BrewTroller, which appears to be working great so far.

The good news is that nearly ALL of the valves, switches, and status lights work correctly, that being said, some are still being a little bit fidgety.

First issue is valve 5 works... but after it opens it sounds like its trying to close and open again or like it doesnt know its open... like a broken automatic door that closes, opens slightly, then closes again... this only happens when we open the valve, and we tested the contacts for shorts, used a different wire and switch etc, its definitely the valve... Also, the valve 5 status LED isnt working, but we havent fully investigated that yet as the valve is acting funny regardless.

Second issue, when programing the valve configurations, the brew troller is unable to auto control valve 8. We can manually turn on valve 8, but testing reveals that the signal from the BT never reaches the relay board, let alone the switch. Not sure how to further trouble shoot this.

Third issue, the temperature probes are not working at all. We have multiple probes from brewers hardware, we have had them working with an arduino and a 1-wire code before. All connections have been tripple checked. When plugging the sensors, or just one sensor, into the BT4.0 1-wire board the LED on the USB board turns off and when rebooting with the 1-wire board in and connected to the sensors it only displays the LCD I2C address and never makes it into the BT menu. Also, after sensor is plugged in the controller becomes non responsive. When removed, it starts working again. We tripple checked for shorts etc, tried different combos of sensors yet got the same results each time.

Those are all of the Brew Troller related issues...

One other issue we had was with one of our pumps in the manifold. One pumps great, the other not so much. Funny part is, the pump thats not working great is our water pump that has only been used on the HLT. So, fairly certain that its not clogged but we havent checked. It is making a higher pitched noise than the other pump which is making a lower pitched rumble when pumping. Both pump, however one is a trickle.

If anyone can help us trouble shoot any of these issues it would be a big help. Thanks!

 

[blackheart]

Also, here is the illustrator file for our control panel layout, including guide lines etc.

http://db.tt/CDhctmA

Please note, you must format the line color and width when doing laser cutting etc. All lines left thicker to make it easier to print out a template, I recommend using 2 sheets of tabloid paper if your printer can handle it... or else you may have to use 4x 8x11 sheets.

 

[bkloos]

The pump, are you testing it dry? One of my pumps screams when run dry, while another sounds fine (NEVER RUN THEM DRY!). Try circulating some fluid through it and see if the high pitched noise fades away.

The rig is looking GREAT! Very nice work on the controls.

BK

 

[blackheart]

Thanks, we spent a long time designing and planning everything. We are happy with the progress so far.

The pumps were never run dry. We tested with about 3-5 gal in each vessel. Really not excited to try disassembling everything to find the problem but it may be the only way to go...

 

[blackheart]

Found a thread about pump impeller size. Ordered larger impellers... so I will take a look when they arrive. https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/can-i-upgrade-typical-march-pump-hf-213577/index7.html

 

[diatonic]

It seems to me that with 12 motor operated valves in the rig, it's probably worth having a spare on hand. I would hate to have one fail and have it hold up brewing.

Can't wait to hear how the first few batches go, after you get the kinks worked out. Love this rig.

 

[Layne]

What a baddass build!

 

[Chuginator]

The only pics of a Brewtroller I've ever seen are the ones you've posted (and thanks again - this thing is sheer controller porn). You're testing for a signal at the switch, but how about the screw terminal? Any chance insulation from the wire is crimped in the terminal so it's not making contact?

 

[Monster Mash]

The more s**t you have the more s**t goes wrong. My system is automated but not with a computer and I still have a few glitches to deal with every once in a while.

Last month my 12vdc power supply blew a fuse rendering my float switch useless... Luckily I keep spare power supplies laying around.

 

[blackheart]

The more s**t you have the more s**t goes wrong. My system is automated but not with a computer and I still have a few glitches to deal with every once in a while.

Last month my 12vdc power supply blew a fuse rendering my float switch useless... Luckily I keep spare power supplies laying around.

Yes... If we had 3 gravity fed kettles with analog temp gauges and manual valves and a plate chiller I'm sure brewing would be a no brainer. However thats not what we are trying to do, make it low tech and simple.

The whole purpose of a semi-automated brew system thats computer controlled is the fine detail in which we will be able to analyze the brewing process and tweak temperatures and times to be able to brew better and more consistently. Then, instead of worrying about HOW the equipment works we will be concerned with what is going into the beer and be able to make subtle changes like move the mash temp up a degree or two, and be able to measure the results, knowing they are accurate.

For about $100 in parts or so we could convert the entire system to manual operation tomorrow with some teflon tape.... but again, thats not the point is it?

 

[Chuginator]

Any more progress, guys? Did you get your bugs worked out?

 

[blackheart]

We had some initial issues but were able to straiten everything out. The first batch was a success with about 80%+ efficiency. We have yet to brew in auto mode and are brewing in manual mode until we feel confidant in the system configuration and pumps etc.

Brewing the next batch on thursday, in the mean time, transferring and kegging beer is keeping us busy. More updates to come soon.

 

[Chuginator]

Right on!

I'd love to see video of that in auto mode. Hell, I'd even settle for pictures.

 

[EvolvedBrews]

Excellent work!!! Cant wait to see it in person this summer!!! Awesome Job Blackheart!!!

 

[twanger1994]

Great Information

 

[adamshifflett]

Blackheart,

First off, thank you so much for sharing your information. You two plus as well as alot of other folks here on the boards are just awesome. The wealth of information is amazing. Alot of specifics were provided for the fluid and gas sides of this build. I was wondering if you could provide some information on the electrical side. I've been looking through digi-key to try and piece together some of the items in your control box and I'm at a loss. I'm a 10 year naval officer (nuclear submarines) with degrees in mechanical and aerospace engineering. Needless to say my weak point is the electrical side. I understand the theory but I don't really know what parts are available out there and how they interact. I realize that you have some schematics out there and they help out with the flow paths but could you explain/link some of the specific pieces so that I could do some more research.

Thanks in advance and I hope the brewing has been good lately!

 

[blackheart]

Blackheart,

First off, thank you so much for sharing your information. You two plus as well as alot of other folks here on the boards are just awesome. The wealth of information is amazing. Alot of specifics were provided for the fluid and gas sides of this build. I was wondering if you could provide some information on the electrical side. I've been looking through digi-key to try and piece together some of the items in your control box and I'm at a loss. I'm a 10 year naval officer (nuclear submarines) with degrees in mechanical and aerospace engineering. Needless to say my weak point is the electrical side. I understand the theory but I don't really know what parts are available out there and how they interact. I realize that you have some schematics out there and they help out with the flow paths but could you explain/link some of the specific pieces so that I could do some more research.

Thanks in advance and I hope the brewing has been good lately!

Think of electricity like water and you will doing just fine. You dont need to know how all the parts work, just what they do and what they need to do their jobs.

As far as parts go, their are a few systems, like brew troller, that have almost all of the pieces you need already. Also check out theelectricbrewery.com who has a step by step guide, with parts lists and links etc. Between those two places you should have everything you need.

You should be getting most of your parts from Automation sites as this stuff is closer to factory automation than general electronics.

Basic idea of all of this electricity stuff is to send the correct voltage to the devices you want to turn on/off when you want them to turn on/off. So you need your supply of voltage, usually 120v ac, 24v ac, 12v dc, etc. If you have electric heating elements it could be 220v ac etc.

To get 220v and 120v ac is easy as you already have the outlets. The 24v and 12v etc require a power supply or transformer to lower the voltage.

Once you have the voltage, use relays as "valves" to control the flow of voltage. Typically you will have a positive and negative voltage for everything. You only need to splice in a relay into the pathway of one of the wires to control the flow of electricity to a device.

In my case, I am using the brewtroller. This sends out 12v signals to power relays that then allow whatever voltage is connected to them to flow or not flow. This isolates the sensitive and low powered electronics from the high voltages they control.

From there you just add on and expand. Add LEDs to display output status. Add switches to manually over ride the computer control etc. Much of the wiring is identical. So if you can understand how to control one device then you can apply that to the other devices.

 

[crazyirishman34]

With the din rail mounted relays. You just need to connect the load to one and the rest use a jumper to pass the current to the rest of them?

 

[ralex999]

Fabulous thread guys and this is been going on for how many years?

 

[Squeeky]

When I win the lottery, I'm going to duplicate something similar. Thanks for doing all the hard work for me. Hell, I might just build it and put it on my resume Write off as a business expense!

 

[Rustyred5]

Does any one know anything about the relays used in this system? i would like to know the specs of the relays on the din rail. and maybe some suggestions on what to buy. Im trying to build Kals Electric Brew system with brewtrollers automation.

 

[crazyirishman34]

you can find those DIN mounted relays at automationdirect.com

 

[Maltose]

His relays are from Open Source Control Systems (Brewtroller)

http://www.oscsys.com

The terminal blocks and breakers are mounted on DIN and can be found at automationdirect.com

 

[Rustyred5]

Thank you Maltose.
That would explain why i can not find relays that look like terminal blocks. my electrical knowledge is very basic. But i guess i'm back to reading more. i have to figure out how to use the relay board. because i don't understand how to take 12v dc to start an ac pump.

 

[crazyirishman34]

It doesn't. He is using the one relay to control the second relay. So the relay that is controlled directly by the brewtroller is supplied with 24v that in turn is connected to one that controls 110v going to the pump.

 

[WWB]

I just joined and saw this post was from 2009.

Were is you system now and are you selling them or other brewing systems.

If so send me links and pricing.

Thanks

WWB

 

[ricksox]

Why is this thread not a sticky? This was an awesome read.

 

[Chuginator]

I'd like to hear how Blackheart is coming along. Hopefully profitable and kicking heiny!

 

[Maltose]

Updates?

 

[hypergolic]

Does anyone know where they got their enclosure from? Thanks

edit: Nevermind I found them on ebay.