Automated/closed system HERMS layout

[wbarber69]

I was thinking more for a system you could use to continuously hop. I've seen some at a couple craft breweries on a larger scale and that's basically what they are.

 

[BayerischBier]

Eagerly looking forward to your solutions to these common challenges in brewery integration Elco Would be wonderful to see automated hoppers for hops.

Technically - wort is like fish - timed additions of food:
http://reefbuilders.com/files/ngg_featured/frozen-fish-food-feeder-8.jpg

http://reefbuilders.com/2013/11/25/automatic-frozen-fish-food-feeder-running-diy-project/

Should be simple to dial in with the controller/unit here discussed. Once BK is on boil just rotate the "hops disc" accordingly to schedule.

 

[day_trippr]

Beware of feature creep.

But I'd go with cheap servos unlatching gravity dump doors on pre-loaded bins over a chute. No calibration needed...

Cheers!

 

[mmmooretx]

I see Elkoe has done the announcement on his new system, looks like Jan. for first orders (manufacturer selections, changes, delivery issues were his impacts). The link to his announcement is below and it looks like he has some very clever implementations that will reduce wire stringing. I am looking forward to some more details so I can figure out how to retrofit my system.
I have decided to retire in August (20th) and am closing on a place in Arkansas that is close to my brothers retirement place. I will be shutting down my brewing until I finish my move as I am closing on my place in Arkansas on 16 Jan., 8 acres of land to play on. Hopefully that will give me plenty of time to build a more permanent brewery so I don't have to tear down each time. Not quite as nice as Elkoe's but not far off.
Anyway The system Elkoe has come up with looks very interesting I am interested in his valve control modules and am curious if they get the valve actuator power from the RJ12 connectors or if the modules need a power source.
Ah well Merry Christmas to all and a Happy New Year to all.

http://www.brewpi.com/introducing-brewpi-spark/

 

[wbarber69]

It's definitely time for elco to start an amazon page and get these units mass produced and start selling them in all relevant countries. I would love to be able to have this sourced and shipped locally. 195€ after shipping will be close to 300usd and that just ain't gonna be very feasible for my budget. Although it did cost nearly 400 once I finished just my control panel, but I was able to source parts on an as needed basis over time. Then new brewpi cost coupled with at least 5 automated valves and no less than 5 temp probes is gonna be a huge chunk of change for me. I see me building my own probes and stuff but still.

 

[Elkoe]

I am going to look into fulfillment via Amazon. Your calculations are exaggerated though:
Shipping to the US with FedEx is 27 euro, 125+27=152 euro, which equals 186 USD.

Unfortunately, shipping cannot be done much cheaper, because the export documents cost 16 euro. Combining orders with a friend is the best way now to reduce it.

mmmoortex: I am powering my ball valves from RJ12 connectors, they only need about 20mA of power.

 

[wbarber69]

My bad. I could have swore the blog had the price point at 195€ I see it's 125 my mistake. But still free shipping with prime would be awesome.

 

[BayerischBier]

"my HERMS has 6 temperature sensors and 12 ball valves, controlled by 6 dual ball valve controllers. These are all on the same OneWire bus"

you had me at "dual ball valve controller" ;-)
Please enlighten me !
About 30 years ago a German toy-train company (Maerklin) came out with one (two?)-wire-digital system to control signals, switches, and trainspeeds - Is this similar? --> digital encoding of control -> wire -> decoding in the controller with proper ID?
Maybe I need more coffee?

 

[day_trippr]

[...]About 30 years ago a German toy-train company (Maerklin) came out with one (two?)-wire-digital system to control signals, switches, and trainspeeds - Is this similar? --> digital encoding of control -> wire -> decoding in the controller with proper ID?

It's totally like that. One-Wire devices have quasi-unique IDs so commands are broadcast to every device on the bus and the "target" responds to its ID.

Maybe I need more coffee?

Wrong forum. You needed more beer...

Cheers!

 

[BayerischBier]

I get the one-wire idea when it comes to, i.e. sensors like DS1820 and controllers. I just having seen it the other way around (controller-->one-wire-valvecontrol) in the context of homebrewing stands.

It's totally like that. One-Wire devices have quasi-unique IDs so commands are broadcast to every device on the bus and the "target" responds to its ID.

Prost

 

[wbarber69]

I get the one-wire idea when it comes to, i.e. sensors like DS1820 and controllers. I just having seen it the other way around (controller-->one-wire-valvecontrol) in the context of homebrewing stands.







Prost

Most one-wire devices can be either a sensor or an actuator. The ds2413, for example, can do both. Or rather has 2 io on chip and either io can be a sensor or actuator. You can control 2 devices or watch their gates for signal or have 1 io activate and the other read it's state.

 

[Elkoe]

Most one-wire devices can be either a sensor or an actuator. The ds2413, for example, can do both. Or rather has 2 io on chip and either io can be a sensor or actuator. You can control 2 devices or watch their gates for signal or have 1 io activate and the other read it's state.

Yep, we are using DS2413's to drive SSRs and DS2408's to drive ball valves via an H-bridge.

Oh and we just released a new store at store.brewpi.com.

There you can buy some of the stuff you can see in this thread, other stuff is still being manufactured (pumps, valves, and pump and valve controllers).

I also have a youtube video how the stuff is installed in a kettle here:

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAyFOD09QOk[/ame]

 

[wbarber69]

Will there be any talk about how dreadfully easy it is to build your own one-wire devices using one-off parts. Like actuators for heaters or fans or lights using ds2413 boards and relay boards.

 

[Elkoe]

Will there be any talk about how dreadfully easy it is to build your own one-wire devices using one-off parts. Like actuators for heaters or fans or lights using ds2413 boards and relay boards.

Feel free to start a thread on our new forum.

We will also be offering these boards in about a month, with the RJ12 connectors so it is easy to connect. They won't be expensive.

 

[wbarber69]

But in reality you hook a rj12 jack up to an adafruit ds2413 breakout board and it just became anything you need it to be.

 

[aangel]

I'd love to see a comparison of false bottom and Elkoe's mash coil as far as extraction efficiency goes. Elkoe - this stuff looks awesome! I certainly hope you eventually offer NPT and/or triclamp connected parts in the future!

 

[diatonic]

I thinking of redoing some stuff in my rig around this platform. How are you handling volume measurement in automated brewing?

 

[day_trippr]

But in reality you hook a rj12 jack up to an adafruit ds2413 breakout board and it just became anything you need it to be.

Do they sell one that doesn't depend on parasitic power?

Cheers!

 

[wbarber69]

Yeah I believe the chip itself can run both ways. These are just adafruit breakout boards that do run on parasitic power. Haven't had any problems with them working on pp but I've found its just easier to put the arduino in the fridge as opposed to trying to run everything out the back through a long wire. Which reminds me I need to remake this backpack with an etched pcb o see if I can resolve the issues I was having. Which, I believe we're related to the crappy hookup wire I had at the time.

Edit: then there's also the ds2408s+ that I'm also working on that that will be able to run up to 8 devices off one chip. Ds2413s are better suited for things like SSRs or if implemented properly, an all in one (sensor and actuator) door switch/light combo.

 

[Rex071]

Hi Elkoe,
can you tell me what is the diameter of the stainless steel wire, what is the diameter of the thread and what is the distance between these threads in your LauterHelix? Thanks in advance.

 

[Elkoe]

The DS2413 are always parasite powered. They do not have a VCC pin.

We have DS2408 code on the repo, we use it on the valve controller. We have not coded using for general outputs yet.

The thread is in such a way that it fits perfectly in a 1/2" BSP or NPT female thread. I don't have the specifics at hand, but is that a sufficient answer to your question?

 

[wbarber69]

I was going to say. Male bsp threads will fit in a female npt fitting. Sometimes a little more Teflon is needed.

 

[BeerGrylls]

I do watch the progress at Elco's community forum (https://community.brewpi.com) and there isn't anything completed on the software side. However, he's in progress building an enclosure for the control unit for the motorized pumps. It's good progress but slowly coming along. I am watching intently since I've been building my new brewhouse. I haven't bought the brewpi or spark yet, since I want to be sure this will actually materialize before I drop cash on it versus something else (like a Kal).

 

[BeerGrylls]

Preordered the spark photon today which is supposed to be shipping in June. Found that Elkoe is now testing PWM support here on the Brewpi, so there is progress being made on doing brewery control.

 

[KipIngram]

Morning. It's been a while since this thread was active, but I'm pursuing a project like this and at the moment am planning to follow this design. But I have a question.

In my earlier thinking I'd laid out my own system in a way that used only one PID controller and temperature sensor - the sense point was always the output of the HERMS coil, and during sparging I had sparge water passing through there. So I could control my mash temperature during mashing and my sparge water temp during sparging.

The downside was that both of my pumps carried wort at times - I didn't have a water only pump.

So, in the BrewPi HERMS design, how do we control the sparge water temperature during sparging? The only way I see to automate that is to switch to a different temp sensor for the PID controller.

Thanks,
Kip