Auto siphon w/hop sock = Lots of Air!!

[Richard-SSV]

Today I was racking my IPA from the fermenter to a keg using an auto siphon with a hop sock on the end and It was pretty much a disaster. I had dry hopped using hop pellets without a hop sock. The guy at my LHBS suggested using a hop sock on the auto siphon to help filter out the dissolved hop pellets.... not a good idea!

I kept getting LOTS of air coming through the siphon hose. I looked down in the keg and it just about looked like a pot of boiling water because there were so many air bubbles in the beer. I took the hop sock off of the auto siphon and then it worked perfectly from then on.

I racked the beer into the keg with some priming sugar. After sealing it up I hit it with Co2 at 20 psi, released the pressure from the keg and repeated. I did this 3-4 times and then left the Co2 in the keg on the last one. I'll be conditioning the beer in the keg at room temperature for 2-3 weeks.

Will the Co2 I pumped in help to remove some of the oxygen that got in the beer during racking?

 

[annasdadhockey]

I'm guessing it was not oxygen(or plain air), that it was just CO2 that was in suspension in your beer. When going thru the hop sock, it came out of suspension and looked like you were sucking air. Think about it, if the end of your racking can was completely submerged in the beer, where would the air come from? My bet is that you will be just fine.

 

[thelorax121]

Same thing happened with me the first time I dry hopped with loose whole cones. LHBS owner told me the same technique, and I had the same results and an incredibly frustrating siphoning session. In the end I left about a gallon of beer in the secondary, but in spite of my concerns, the beer turned out fantastic, and though I polished the batch off in about two months, at that time I experienced no off flavors from oxidization

 

[wildwest450]

Strange, I use a 5 gallon paint strainer on my auto-siphon to transfer all my beers, and no bubbles to date.

 

[troutab81]

Strange, I use a 5 gallon paint strainer on my auto-siphon to transfer all my beers, and no bubbles to date.

I just had the same exact experience. Although I know I am not getting the best seal where the hose meets the cane itself...I have to hold it down sort of like a clamp. Took off the hop sock and oila, worked fine... concerned over my IPA as it was a $60 batch!

 

[greenbirds]

I also use a 5 gal paint strainer bag on my 3/8" auto-siphon to rack my dry-hopped beers. I use 5/16" ID hose -- that is key to make sure you have a tight seal up top.

Also, you must have the little black racking cane tip attached to increase suction surface area, or else the tip of the auto-siphon will clog or possibly cause bubbles in your line, as I explain below...

I'm guessing it was not oxygen(or plain air), that it was just CO2 that was in suspension in your beer. When going thru the hop sock, it came out of suspension and looked like you were sucking air. Think about it, if the end of your racking can was completely submerged in the beer, where would the air come from? My bet is that you will be just fine.

Possible, but I don't think this to be true. When there is a flow restriction (hop debris slowing down flow of wort to auto-siphon entrance), I believe air can be drawn down through the auto-siphon housing, past the racking cane seal (it's not a super tight seal), and subsequently up into the cane/tubing to fill the vacuum being caused by the clog.

 

[smizak]

I also tried a nylon hop bag or the Autosiphon tip on my first dry-hopped beer. Disaster, lost over a gallon of beer.

What I do know is 1.) Only dryhop with pellets 2.) Zip tie a sanitized nylon hop bag over the end of the hose in the bottling bucket. I lightly cinch a stainless 1/2" clamp just on the end to have something to hold the bag on. Leave plenty of bag free after the hose end, tie it just at the top of the bag. Works awesome along with careful racking, catches any free straggling hop pieces that make their way into the siphon.

 

[danger831]

can you put the sock on the outlet side or the keg side of the siphon that would trap any thing you suck up inside the sock you would also be able to utilize the entire surface area of the sock and you wouldn't be creating a pressure drop do to the restriction of the sock on the intake side which is what is probably causing the co2 to come out of solution.

 

[greenbirds]

I should also note that paint strainer bags and hop socks are not created equally. I originally tried a nylon hop sock, and it did in fact clog. In my experience, the nylon paint strainer bags are thinner have a courser weave than hop socks, possibly preventing the siphon loss.

 

[Jebu1788]

Zombie thread...

I was wondering if anyone had reports about what happened. I used my hop bag as a strainer today, and lots of air bubbles formed. They were forming, I think, as the beer passed through the bag even when it was fully submerged.

Time will tell for sure, but did this turn into cardboard beer for anyone? I tried to keep bubbling down to a minimum, but there was sure a whole lot more than I wanted.

 

[Calichusetts]

I also tried a nylon hop bag or the Autosiphon tip on my first dry-hopped beer. Disaster, lost over a gallon of beer.

What I do know is 1.) Only dryhop with pellets 2.) Zip tie a sanitized nylon hop bag over the end of the hose in the bottling bucket. I lightly cinch a stainless 1/2" clamp just on the end to have something to hold the bag on. Leave plenty of bag free after the hose end, tie it just at the top of the bag. Works awesome along with careful racking, catches any free straggling hop pieces that make their way into the siphon.

I tried this but there was so much hop debris coming through into the bag that it was impossible to get a nice whirlpool and mix the priming solution with the beer...I got three left and have only had one that was not carbed but it didn't even do that good of a job, LOTS of hop particles in the beer. It took over a week in the fridge and a flawless pour (leaving about 25% in the bottle) to get a clear beer.

I am going to try it over the siphoning end but I am also going to dry hop in a bag from now on.

 

[Revvy]

Why is it the whenever someone sees a bubble in an autosiphon line, do they assume it is oxygen and NOT co2? Did you repeatedly lift the bottom of the autosiphon above the liquid line while it was flowing? If you kept it in the beer, then what was being disgorged out of solution was MORE LIKELY co2.

Bubbles forming doesn't necesaary equate with AIR BUBBLES forming, unless you actually introduced air into the intake at the bottom of the autosiphon, there should be no air actually in the fluid.

 

[Burgs]

I screwed this up about as badly as one could trying to siphon through a hop sock and the beer tasted great in the end, so I wouldn't worry about this one little step ruining anything.

I think the problem with the hop socks is that they're so flimsy, they get saturated and just cling to the sides of the autosiphon. I can see how strainer bags would be better for this purpose.

 

[Bobby_M]

If you want to test if it's really air leaking in from the seal between the larger and smaller tubing, just pour a small amount of bottled water down the larger tube. That would make it impossible for air to leak through the seal. If you still have bubbles forming, check the seal between your hose and racking cane. The added resistance of the filter bag could pull air there. If the bubbles are for sure not coming from there, then it's CO2 coming out of solution due to the pressure drop on the carboy side of the siphon.

 

[greenbirds]

If you want to test if it's really air leaking in from the seal between the larger and smaller tubing, just pour a small amount of bottled water down the larger tube. That would make it impossible for air to leak through the seal. If you still have bubbles forming, check the seal between your hose and racking cane. The added resistance of the filter bag could pull air there. If the bubbles are for sure not coming from there, then it's CO2 coming out of solution due to the pressure drop on the carboy side of the siphon.

Great idea to test that theory.

 

[Jebu1788]

Why is it the whenever someone sees a bubble in an autosiphon line, do they assume it is oxygen and NOT co2? Did you repeatedly lift the bottom of the autosiphon above the liquid line while it was flowing? If you kept it in the beer, then what was being disgorged out of solution was MORE LIKELY co2.

Bubbles forming doesn't necesaary equate with AIR BUBBLES forming, unless you actually introduced air into the intake at the bottom of the autosiphon, there should be no air actually in the fluid.

I suppose I mis-spoke. I actually wasn't sure if they were air bubbles or not, but I think I have reasons to believe they were not CO2 bubbles. This was the second time I racked the beer, and the first time, no CO2. It has been about 4 weeks since brew day, and I've never had bubbles form like this any other time I've moved beers around. The one time I had CO2 was with apfelwein, and they were much smaller and fizzy, unlike these bubbles. The only difference in method I can account for is dry-hopping and using a hop bag to strain.

Further, if I gave the auto-siphon a couple of pumps, for whatever reason, it would pump clear of bubbles for several seconds. My guess was that this was either cavitation somehow caused by the hop bag or air being sucked in from a loose seal with the siphon rod (the hose was fine).

Since I did not know the reason, or do any tests with water and hop bags after I racked the beer (perhaps I should have), I figured I'd ask to see if anyone had any experience with this phenomenon and what the results were. I will test the seal between the large ans small tubes later tonight via the method described above.

 

[greenbirds]

...I will test the seal between the large ans small tubes later tonight via the method described above.

Any results?

 

[Jebu1788]

Any results?

Oh yeah, forgot to report back.

I did try it out with just water, and whether or not I had water poured into the larger tube, no bubbles formed. Seems like my racking cane is ok...

I've used the cane again for beer (no bubbling), and noticed that if there's any leaking at the small/large tube contact, it allows a small amount of beer (enough to create a seal) UP into the large tube rather than air in.

Haven't tried the beer since bottling, so no word on whether it is cardboard or not, but it seems that since the phenomenon I experience had bubbles forming at the base, it is at least consistent with cavitation, but I'm not so convinced. It just seems strange, and it doesn't help this is something I know almost nothing about.

 

[DeafSmith]

I have had the same problem with a bag on the end of the autosiphon clogging, so I changed my method - now if I am racking to a bottling bucket, I line the bucket with a jumbo size grain bag (got mine from AHS), fold the excess over the top and secure it with a bungee cord around the outside of the bottling bucket (I boil the bag to sanitize it). After racking into the bucket, I just lift the bag out and the hop pellet residue is contained in the bag. If I am racking to a keg (my usual practice now), I cold crash first and everything settles to the bottom.

A couple of things I have found helpful when using autosiphons:
* Clean the autosiphon immediately after use and store the parts separately to prevent the gasket on the cane from becoming deformed
* I use 3/8 inch ID silicone hose on my 1/2 inch autosiphon - it works much better than vinyl - easy to get on and off and forms an airtight seal with no hose clamp needed - plus it can be sanitized by boiling.

 

[GMP428]

If you want to test if it's really air leaking in from the seal between the larger and smaller tubing, just pour a small amount of bottled water down the larger tube. That would make it impossible for air to leak through the seal. If you still have bubbles forming, check the seal between your hose and racking cane. The added resistance of the filter bag could pull air there. If the bubbles are for sure not coming from there, then it's CO2 coming out of solution due to the pressure drop on the carboy side of the siphon.

bobby_m is right. the majority of your problems are coming from air flowing around the gasket of the smaller tube of your autosiphon. the way to fix this while racking is to pour some wort down the larger tube. that way wort, rather than air is flowing around the gasket and up your racking cane. you might have to refill the larger tube a couple of times because it will eventually suck all the wort down and begin to start sucking air again.

 

[Jebu1788]

bobby_m is right. the majority of your problems are coming from air flowing around the gasket of the smaller tube of your autosiphon. the way to fix this while racking is to pour some wort down the larger tube. that way wort, rather than air is flowing around the gasket and up your racking cane. you might have to refill the larger tube a couple of times because it will eventually suck all the wort down and begin to start sucking air again.

But with my cane, beer actually is pulled up into the tube, creating the seal around the smaller tube's gasket you've just told me I need to create. This is not the problem, and I've been over this.