Austin Homebrew This Sounds Like YOUR Accounting Mistake Not Mine!

[arkowa]

The mistake stopped becoming innocent when it was revealed that the OP had taken money from another customers gift cert

Morally, not the best situation. OP is in the wrong. I don't think anyone will argue that point. My point is from a business vantage: In the era of social networking and public relations, I would not have tried to recoup the loss. My focus would be on preventing this lapse from ever happening again.

 

[ArtVandelay]

But he didn't know it was someone's elses card.

Would this situation be different if he did not know the amount on the card to begin with? I think it would.

 

[mccumath]

I am still in awe at how some folks can justify this behavior. Just because he found a flaw in the system does not give him (or anyone else) the right to free credit. Not only did he KNOW that the amount of the GC was incorrect when he purchased the items, he stole the GC money from another HOMEBREWER. Not only does AHS have to try to make it right with the customer who actually had the $75 dollar gift certificate, but now has to deal with the customer that knowingly ripped them off. Also, it's not always about the dollar amount, you also have to figure in man hours of wasted time in trying to figure out the problem, making it right with the honest customer, spending time to e-mail about account information, etc. It always goes further than most people think.

So, anyone who has condoned this behavior on this thread, if this were to happen to you, I guess you would just say, "oh well" when your GC showed up as $0 dollars.

Yeah Right.

 

[mccumath]

Even from a business standpoint, I understand the reason that they are asking for the money. I'm not arguing with anyone about the fact that you should cut your losses, and fix a problem with the system, but I would do exactly the same thing.

Ask for the money. You get the money owed to you, then great! If the customer tells you to **** off, then that's cool too. The relationship there is already ruined, and there is not much from a business standpoint that you can do to fix that (see OP). Fix the problem, resume business as usual.

I am arguing that the OP was in the wrong for knowingly using the additional $35 dollar credit after unknowingly entering in the wrong GC number. Simple as that. Therefore, I believe he should pay up.

 

[tnance1337]

Being a retail manager for many years, I'm inclined to believe that the OP is clearly wrong for violating a fairly obvious moral.

The way I see it, if I were to "mistakenly" leave a cash register drawer open, and some un-ethical individual was to take $35 out of that register, knowing it did not belong to them, they would most certainly be charged with theft. The fact that I made a mistake and left the drawer open has absolutely no grounds.

How is this different? You took money knowing it did not belong to you. This isn't a "finders-keepers" sort of situation. You knew that money wasn't yours, yet you took it anyway. The owner of that money has every right to make his claim to retrieve those funds.

How can anyone justify theft, no matter what the situation is?

The "customer is always right" philosophy has led to some pretty poor behavior and habits when it comes to self-entitlement. Don't get me wrong, I am fully aware that my paycheck relies entirely upon the customer. Does this give the customer the right to blatantly abuse unsophisticated systems? Absolutely not. No matter how you slice it.

What a shame ... AHS will likely not recover the loss, as I'm sure this guy feels entitled, in some crazy stretch of his imagination.

 

[ReverseApacheMaster]

Disagree with OP thinking he's entitled to keep what he didn't pay for because the error wasn't caught right away but also disagree with AHS's lazy business practices here. AHS probably won't change their system going forward which means it's bound to happen again.

 

[emjay]

Being a retail manager for many years, I'm inclined to believe that the OP is clearly wrong for violating a fairly obvious moral.

The way I see it, if I were to "mistakenly" leave a cash register drawer open, and some un-ethical individual was to take $35 out of that register, knowing it did not belong to them, they would most certainly be charged with theft. The fact that I made a mistake and left the drawer open has absolutely no grounds.

How is this different? You took money knowing it did not belong to you. This isn't a "finders-keepers" sort of situation. You knew that money wasn't yours, yet you took it anyway. The owner of that money has every right to make his claim to retrieve those funds.

How can anyone justify theft, no matter what the situation is?

The "customer is always right" philosophy has led to some pretty poor behavior and habits when it comes to self-entitlement. Don't get me wrong, I am fully aware that my paycheck relies entirely upon the customer. Does this give the customer the right to blatantly abuse unsophisticated systems? Absolutely not. No matter how you slice it.

What a shame ... AHS will likely not recover the loss, as I'm sure this guy feels entitled, in some crazy stretch of his imagination.

This. It really doesn't matter if it was a mistake, or if the system is problematic.

If a cashier hands you an extra $50 while giving you your change, and you knowingly keep it, that's theft. If you go to your bank and the machine spits out double the amount of whatever you're withdrawing, it's supposed to be returned.

It's not a grey area. It's actually pretty cut and dry. Do I think AHS will ultimately pursue it further and try to force him to pay it back? Probably not, especially for $35. But the OP is still a total scumbag.

And the people saying that he might (or definitely will) have to deal with a guilty conscience must be high. He's not going to lose any sleep over this, I assure you. The only feeling he'll get from this is happiness (and possibly pride) that he got "free money", and indignance over the victim (AHS) having the gall to ask him to do the right thing.

 

[bottlebomber]

But he didn't know it was someone's elses card.

Would this situation be different if he did not know the amount on the card to begin with? I think it would.

Would the situation be different for you if you went to use your gift certificate card and found their was only $5 on it?

 

[mccumath]

Still nothing from DizzyPants. Im curious to see how he weighs in after all this discussion. I guess we will see...

 

[SailorTodd]

I can't believe someone could get so incensed about a simple courtesy email asking him to call them about a screwed up order. It's not like they automatically charged his credit card an extra $35 a month and change later. The defamation of AHS by OP was completely uncalled for. He owes AHS and this community an apology (and AHS $35).

 

[mccumath]

He owes AHS and this community an apology (and AHS $35).

I especially like this part!

 

[bigbeergeek]

...waiting...

...for free money...

 

[mccumath]

You too huh?

 

[Coffee_Creek]

AHS has received 100 fold in free advertising, they win!!!!!!!!
Never ordered from them before but I will now.

 

[mccumath]

AHS has received 100 fold in free advertising, they win!!!!!!!!
Never ordered from them before but I will now.

Exactly. I have looked at their site a few times, but have not ordered from them. I will sure take another look when I need to place another order!

You are welcome AHS! Never even ordered from you, but sticking up for you!

 

[Airborneguy]

I'm seeing a serious lack of ethics within the HB crowd... Make your dads proud!

Hunter

I see too many people on this forum who force their own "morals" on everyone else. You see no way in which this could have been an oversight on the buyer's part? You pour over every receipt you get and never make a mistake? I know I've left things in my cart I didn't mean to purchase, missed mistakes on receipts (just two days ago I did that one), and even walked out of supermarkets with extra things I forgot to put on the belt. I'm no thief, but I didn't go running back into the supermarket to pay for a $1.50 item that might not have ended up on the 2 foot long receipt, accidentally.

I'm surprised, ultra-morals or not, that not many people see the possibility for an honest mistake here. Must make your father proud. (I know I make mine very proud, even to this day, btw.)

 

[Airborneguy]

I am arguing that the OP was in the wrong for knowingly using the additional $35 dollar credit after unknowingly entering in the wrong GC number. Simple as that. Therefore, I believe he should pay up.

How do you know that the bold word applies?

 

[Airborneguy]

The way I see it, if I were to "mistakenly" leave a cash register drawer open, and some un-ethical individual was to take $35 out of that register, knowing it did not belong to them, they would most certainly be charged with theft. The fact that I made a mistake and left the drawer open has absolutely no grounds.

How is this different?

It's different in more than a few, very important, very illegal ways which make your scenario not similar to the OP's one single iota.

You knew that money wasn't yours, yet you took it anyway.

How do you know this? A frequent theme of moralists is that they do not believe in mistakes. I pointed out another one right above this. I guess working in a field where I'm not allowed to make assumptions has made me very sensitive to catching them. I avoid making assumptions because the percentage of correct assumptions I see in life tends to be small.

 

[Zamial]

I have no idea how hard AHS will push this issue but I know that in my state there are "failure to pay for goods/services rendered" laws. Meaning that if I take a taxi/ eat a meal and do not pay, I go to jail with a large fine.

AHS has always done right by me as a vendor and IMO it would suck to never be able to take advantage of the great deals they have to offer. I am willing to bet that you could, over the course of a year or less, save more than $35 on orders.

Personally, I would have just called them up to clear the situation up. You then could have posted up the story of how it "all worked out".

 

[BigUgly]

I see too many people on this forum who force their own "morals" on everyone else. You see no way in which this could have been an oversight on the buyer's part? You pour over every receipt you get and never make a mistake? I know I've left things in my cart I didn't mean to purchase, missed mistakes on receipts (just two days ago I did that one), and even walked out of supermarkets with extra things I forgot to put on the belt. I'm no thief, but I didn't go running back into the supermarket to pay for a $1.50 item that might not have ended up on the 2 foot long receipt, accidentally.

I'm surprised, ultra-morals or not, that not many people see the possibility for an honest mistake here. Must make your father proud. (I know I make mine very proud, even to this day, btw.)

So if your supermarket sent you an email asking for you to do the right thing and pay the $1.50 for said item, you wouldn't do it?
If yes, then drop it; you're on the same page as me.
If not, I'm sure your father is proud.

I'm not FORCING anything on anyone. I was just pointing out that it's a shame how people can have this happen, accident or not, and then proceed to spit in the face of the supplier asking for an honest gesture...

Hunter

 

[usfmikeb]

Anyone that uses a gift card online checks to make sure that it worked correctly. It's safe to say that he knew he was getting more value than $40. Are those assumptions? Yes. But they're quite realistic.

 

[SailorTodd]

I see too many people on this forum who force their own "morals" on everyone else. You see no way in which this could have been an oversight on the buyer's part? You pour over every receipt you get and never make a mistake? I know I've left things in my cart I didn't mean to purchase, missed mistakes on receipts (just two days ago I did that one), and even walked out of supermarkets with extra things I forgot to put on the belt. I'm no thief, but I didn't go running back into the supermarket to pay for a $1.50 item that might not have ended up on the 2 foot long receipt, accidentally.

I'm surprised, ultra-morals or not, that not many people see the possibility for an honest mistake here. Must make your father proud. (I know I make mine very proud, even to this day, btw.)

For my part the issue isn't that he stole from AHS or anything. It was a simple mistake on OP's part, or even possibly on the part of AHS. But to lose it over a polite and courteous email, trying to defame the company that's just trying to make an honest living like any small business owner would, is absolutely uncalled for.

Does he deserve to be called a thief and a fraud? Not at all. Is it morally objectionable to refuse to pay the $35 AHS wants to settle with him? No, especially if it was an honest mistake. But is it right for him to put them on blast in front of a community that frequents the store, trying to wreck their business without even trying to settle it directly with the company? Absolutely! It's incredibly immature and backhanded. That's where OP crossed the line to morally objectionable territory and offended me.

On another note, I have never shopped AHS. I might have to check them out. I've heard great things...

 

[Airborneguy]

So if your supermarket sent you an email asking for you to do the right thing and pay the $1.50 for said item, you wouldn't do it?
If yes, then drop it; you're on the same page as me.
If not, I'm sure your father is proud.

I'm not FORCING anything on anyone. I was just pointing out that it's a shame how people can have this happen, accident or not, and then proceed to spit in the face of the supplier asking for an honest gesture...

Hunter

I covered his response in my first post. It was totally out of line. But you're choosing very strong words when you mention a parent's pride in response to what you think you are reading in others' responses.

If I received an email regarding that item and knew I had taken it, I'd go pay for it. If I received that email and did not know I had gotten that item for free as they were stating, I don't see myself "paying up".

In this guys case, based on what we've been told, I'd have written back to AHB asking for some clarification. If I had not known that the gift certificate was not for $75, I'd politely inform them of this fact, tell them I don't feel responsible for the mistake, and see where they wanted to go from there. If I did know, and had tried to get away with it anyway, then I'd probably feel ashamed and pay up.

For the record, AHS shorted me a 1/2 oz of hops once (I order from them frequently). I emailed Forrest as an FYI, telling him that I had a substitute for the recipe so I didn't mind and just wanted him to know in case something was wrong with his scale. I asked for nothing in return. I say this to show you that jumping on others' "morals" is a bold assumption that you should be able to back up if you plan on doing it. I see the possibility for an honest mistake here and will reserve such strict judgement of one's character until I see reasons to believe otherwise. Furthermore, I certainly will not judge the character of people who are responding to the situation.

 

[Airborneguy]

Does he deserve to be called a thief and a fraud? Not at all. Is it morally objectionable to refuse to pay the $35 AHS wants to settle with him? No, especially if it was an honest mistake. But is it right for him to put them on blast in front of a community that frequents the store, trying to wreck their business without even trying to settle it directly with the company?

I'm totally with you on that. It was one of the first things I said in this thread.

 

[two_hearted]

For my part the issue isn't that he stole from AHS or anything. It was a simple mistake on OP's part, or even possibly on the part of AHS. But to lose it over a polite and courteous email, trying to defame the company that's just trying to make an honest living like any small business owner would, is absolutely uncalled for.

Does he deserve to be called a thief and a fraud? Not at all. Is it morally objectionable to refuse to pay the $35 AHS wants to settle with him? No, especially if it was an honest mistake. But is it right for him to put them on blast in front of a community that frequents the store, trying to wreck their business without even trying to settle it directly with the company? Absolutely! It's incredibly immature and backhanded. That's where OP crossed the line to morally objectionable territory and offended me.

On another note, I have never shopped AHS. I might have to check them out. I've heard great things...

Well said.

 

[mccumath]

How do you know that the bold word applies?

I can honestly say that I have always known the quantity of money on a gift certificate before completeing a purchase. If it was not listed on the GC anywhere, I would do the research prior to even completing the purchase. It is indeed a reasonable assumption that he knowingly proceeded with the transaction, and is now ranting and raving in attempts to blow the situation out of proportion enough that nobody will question his actions. I have seen this so many times in the retail business, and it always ends the same. The customer throws a huge fit, i.e. "I will never shop here again" is a classic line, over and over again, (next he will be threatening to sue), and gets what they want because nobody wants to have the situation blown out of control. And in these situations, the customer is always the culprit. If he had come on here, said that there was a problem with his order, and that he was working on fixing it, I would not have jumped to conclusions. Sorry, but if you choose to believe differently, more power to you.

Trust me, I am no moralist. Nor was I pushing my values on anyone. Really, in the end, will my post ever change the OP's morals. Absolutely not. Nor will anyone try to convince me that what he did is justifiable.

And BTW, I still have not heard anything from DizzyPants. I would still like to hear how he weighs in on this. Maybe he can put this all to rest, make all of us feel like jerks, and we can carry on with our lives as if we didn't give a fat rats ass about his ordeal with AHS.

 

[two_hearted]

You really think he'll come back to this thread after everyone called him a douchey thief with no morals? Really, nothing he could say would put this to rest. He handled the situation poorly and blew off some steam in a public place.

Then again, maybe he will live up to mccumath's assumptions and threaten to sue everyone.

 

[lowlife]

If you don't want to pay for the items, ship them back. Have ahb pay for the shipping.

 

[Sixpak]

I find it hard to believe that OP didn't notice the extra value of his gift card. Next someone will try to convince me that they don't ever look at the "Total" before hitting the "Are you sure and Pay Now" button. He didn't even attempt to work things out with AHB after he got "caught".

I suppose if this happens enough times then AHB has no choice but to jack up the prices so that we ALL have to pay to make up for these little mistakes.

 

[Pappers_]

Its too early in the morning for me to be filled with righteous indignation.

Well, not really, but I'm just not feeling it here.