Attention new all grain brewers!

[Jewsh]

I brewed My fiirt AG Btch yesterday and it is very happily krausening away! It was the Bells Two hearted ale clone recipe I found On here. It was a awesomly amazing brew day. I calculated out I got % 86.2 efficiency. I am amazed. From dough in to pitching, it was a little over four hours. Great time.

I recommend that brewers that want to make the leap...Just go for it. I have been into this hobby for 8 months now. I was really nervous about making the leap. Just do it! No worries, relax, and have a homebrew!!!

Rock

 

[Jewsh]

Scratch that. I just looked it up, You measure the pre boil gravity for you efficiency. In that case, I was at %68.7. Still ok?

 

[GWhomebrew1]

Yes I recently started AG brewing and the heat loss in the mash tun was a problem. Good advice to preheat the mash tun to prevent heat loss. Wish I had read this a few weeks ago!

 

[crlova2]

I am new to AG brewing and doing my first one on Friday. How do you calculate efficiency?

 

[spriolo]

Find a good resource for the "theoretical max" for the grain you are using. Multiply it up for the volume you expect (mash + sparge - absorption) Right before you boil, measure your SG for the volume and divide it out... first time I did all grain I got 45% eff.

Embarrassing, so I boiled the snot out of it to reduce my volume and raise the OG. The beer was like a 3 gallon batch because of it. It's o.k. though, my next batch was better.

 

[Starderup]

I say you just figure out if you like the beer!

 

[Jewsh]

I just used 38 gravity points per pound of grain. So points times lbs of grain divided by volume of boil.
Sound ok?

 

[Jewsh]

I just used 38 gravity points per pound of grain. So points times lbs of grain divided by volume of boil.
Sound ok?

 

[masonsjax]

Each type of grain has a different potential gravity. It will not be accurate if you pick a number from thin air and apply it to the entire recipe. That said, knowing your efficiency isn't really that important. After a few batches, you'll learn your system and what you need to do to get consistent results. At that point you'll know roughly what your efficiency is based on how close you are to your target OG.

If you're OCD about numbers and absolutely must know, there are programs on the web that you can punch your recipe into and calculate your actual efficiency.

 

[spriolo]

Hey Jewsh, don't let masonsjax discourage you from calculating your brew. I'm a numbers guy and enjoy looking at the science and technology of the craft. Use Google to search for "malt grain theoretical max points" and find what your grain will theoretically produce.

Get out your spreadsheet and enjoy tinkering with the numbers.

 

[brettwasbtd]

Scratch that. I just looked it up, You measure the pre boil gravity for you efficiency. In that case, I was at %68.7. Still ok?

Pre boil vs post boil shouldn't matter right? Cause it is relative to the volume of wort you are using? Preboil you will have a lower gravity, but more wort. Post Boil you will have a higher gravity, but less wort. These numbers should contain the same amount of sugars, just relative to the wort level.

Brewhouse efficiency is calculating how many sugars you can get out of those grains.

 

[Jewsh]

I really enjoy tinkering as well. Thanks for the tip. I will try and finger out my points more accurate next time, that way I can calculate my true efficiency.

 

[crlova2]

I just bought beersmith and am trying to get everything ready for my first AG batch on Friday. A couple things are giving me problems though so please give me some feedback so I can figure out the best thing to do. I am doing a 10 gallon all grain IPA and my confusion is on the mashout and sparge volumes that beersmith is giving me. In one case when I select a medium bodied single infusion it is telling me to mash with 37.5 qts at 165.2 F (cooler pre-heated) and then mash out with 21 qts at around 195. Then it says to drain all of that and then sparge with around 3 gallons. I feel like this isn't right because sparging with only 3 gallons doesn't seem like it is going to do much. The least amount of mashout volume it will allow me is 14.1 qts at boiling in order to get me to 168 F. This is still only leaving me 4.3 gallons of sparge. Should I just skip the mashout? I mean I have a 75 qt mashtun so I have the room to do the large mashout to bring it up to temp but is my efficiency going to suffer from such a small sparge? I feel like adding 5 gallons or less of sparge to 30 lbs of grain isn't going to do much but I have never done all grain so that is why I am asking. Any input or suggestions are greatly appreciated.

 

[xjncoguyx]

I just bought beersmith and am trying to get everything ready for my first AG batch on Friday. A couple things are giving me problems though so please give me some feedback so I can figure out the best thing to do. I am doing a 10 gallon all grain IPA and my confusion is on the mashout and sparge volumes that beersmith is giving me. In one case when I select a medium bodied single infusion it is telling me to mash with 37.5 qts at 165.2 F (cooler pre-heated) and then mash out with 21 qts at around 195. Then it says to drain all of that and then sparge with around 3 gallons. I feel like this isn't right because sparging with only 3 gallons doesn't seem like it is going to do much. The least amount of mashout volume it will allow me is 14.1 qts at boiling in order to get me to 168 F. This is still only leaving me 4.3 gallons of sparge. Should I just skip the mashout? I mean I have a 75 qt mashtun so I have the room to do the large mashout to bring it up to temp but is my efficiency going to suffer from such a small sparge? I feel like adding 5 gallons or less of sparge to 30 lbs of grain isn't going to do much but I have never done all grain so that is why I am asking. Any input or suggestions are greatly appreciated.

What are you brewing thats 30 lbs? Miine says for 30lb of grain 37.5 qt first mash, then a 21 qt. mash out .43 sparge. I don't do mash out though. I'd go with single infusion, no mash out. That will give you what you're looking for most likely.

 

[crlova2]

What are you brewing thats 30 lbs? Miine says for 30lb of grain 37.5 qt first mash, then a 21 qt. mash out .43 sparge. I don't do mash out though. I'd go with single infusion, no mash out. That will give you what you're looking for most likely.

I am doing a 10 gallon dogfish 60 min clone. It only calls for like 27 pounds of grain but since its my first time I figured I would have bad efficiency and should add some extra. Yours said .43 sparge? What does that mean .43 Gallons? So if I do no mash out then it is telling me to do like 7.8 gallons of sparge at 168 F. Should I do a higher temp than that though?

 

[xjncoguyx]

I am doing a 10 gallon dogfish 60 min clone. It only calls for like 27 pounds of grain but since its my first time I figured I would have bad efficiency and should add some extra. Yours said .43 sparge? What does that mean .43 Gallons? So if I do no mash out then it is telling me to do like 7.8 gallons of sparge at 168 F. Should I do a higher temp than that though?

I normally do my mash at whatever temp i want it to be at then sparge with about 165-170 degree water.

 

[Grasslands]

I finally have the equipment to make the jump to AG, and this thread has been extremely beneficial.

It appears that efficiency is really the perspective of the beerholder. For those who aren't worrying about max efficiency - they seem to want to adjust their sparge amounts to get to a fixed preboil volume. For those who are, they get to a larger pre-boil volume, but with max efficiency, and boil down to the desired volume before actually starting the boil.

I'm not sure if it's been asked, but what would be the estimated efficiency percentage difference between these two processes?

I guess this is weighing on my mind a bit because I'm considering doing an Oatmeal Stout for my first AG, and it calls for a 12.5 lb grain bill. To obtain max efficiency, my mash water volume would be around 15.5 quarts (or 3.9 gallons) and my sparge water would be 7.75 gallons - with an ultimate preboil volume of just over 11.5 gallons for a 5.5 gallon batch.

That does sound like overkill and a lot of propane to use. I guess my question would be to see what the difference in efficiency percentage would be given both situations. If it's somewhere in the range of 10-20%, I'm wondering if that'd be worth my time spent boiling off nearly half of the preboil volume as well as the cost associated with using the propane to do so.

 

[brettwasbtd]

I finally have the equipment to make the jump to AG, and this thread has been extremely beneficial.

It appears that efficiency is really the perspective of the beerholder. For those who aren't worrying about max efficiency - they seem to want to adjust their sparge amounts to get to a fixed preboil volume. For those who are, they get to a larger pre-boil volume, but with max efficiency, and boil down to the desired volume before actually starting the boil.

I'm not sure if it's been asked, but what would be the estimated efficiency percentage difference between these two processes?

I guess this is weighing on my mind a bit because I'm considering doing an Oatmeal Stout for my first AG, and it calls for a 12.5 lb grain bill. To obtain max efficiency, my mash water volume would be around 15.5 quarts (or 3.9 gallons) and my sparge water would be 7.75 gallons - with an ultimate preboil volume of just over 11.5 gallons for a 5.5 gallon batch.

That does sound like overkill and a lot of propane to use. I guess my question would be to see what the difference in efficiency percentage would be given both situations. If it's somewhere in the range of 10-20%, I'm wondering if that'd be worth my time spent boiling off nearly half of the preboil volume as well as the cost associated with using the propane to do so.

Judging by your first sentence, you have yet to brew all grain with your setup, correct? If thats the case you should probably just make a beer and see what kinda efficiency you get. I was pleasantly surprised that my system lends to about an 80% efficiency on average. I am really pleased with that. Sure more would be nice, but not at the expense of propane/TIME its just not worth it. I have yet to try and use a finer crush to achieve better efficiency, but I probably could. I used Bobby_M's all grain guide when I started and I beleive he said he gets 88%-92% with his crush. Thats pretty darn good!

You don't want your runnings to go below 1010, I have been lackadaisical with my procedure and don't check my final runnings gravity, just go to whatever my preboil volume should be, but i really don't think its below that ( i will check this weekend when i brew!). To boil off 6 gallons of wort is just not efficient in itself. The only time you may consider something like this is with a barleywine.

I guess in my opinion, your hypothetical case of boiling down 6 gallons is not a good decision. If you purchase or own your own mill, trying a finer crush to improve efficiency is a great way to do it. But you won't know until you try your system. To answer the percentage difference question that has many variables. But basically you'd have to know your boil off rate and the cost of an hours worth of propane and compare that to your normal efficiency and the amount of extra grain you would have to use to get the gravity you would have gotten from the 6 hour boil off. Then you can factor in your personal time of waiting X hours to continue your brew. Ultimately the decision is yours, but I think the general consensus is better crush and standard boil times and you get what you get. Long post, let me know if i completely missed your question!

 

[Starderup]

Efficiency is overrated. I wouldn't obsess about it. I just try to hit my OG or as close as I can.

 

[WildKnight]

I apologize if this question was already covered, as I didn't get through all 20 pages.

But, my false bottom hold two gallons of water under it. So, if I stick to 1-1.25 quarts per pound of grain, then the top of my mash will not be submerged in water. How much will my efficiency be hurt if I use too much mash water? Also, is it really a big problem if I just boil longer to remove the excess water? (that is, assuming I am not brewing a very pale pils for which I do not want excessive caramelized sugars)?

 

[millaj92]

Another all grain rookie mistake leads to discarded batch. I stepped away for just a few toooo many minutes and did not stir the brewpot on the stove while doing an infusion mash. The grains on the bottom got burned and that taste carried over to the beer. Stinks, because it was beautiful, clear, the perfect head, but it had the burnt taste that there was no getting past.
Do not make the mistake of heating grains and water at the same time. I did it for months with many batches successfully, but it requires constant stirring. 5 minutes can ruin / burn an entire batch. Add your heated water to the brewpot for mashing.
I may just get the igloo cooler back out.

Never throw away bad beer! Still it

 

[inmyelement]

Read through the thread and didn't see it mentioned of you can do your boil in 2 pots? I'm looking at taking 8ish gallons down to 5. I don't have a pot big enough to do it all together so that's out of the question. Seems that boiling 1.5 gallons off of 2 pots containing 4 gallon each would be quicker than doing it all in one. I have a stove that can handle the task. Is there a down side to doing this?

 

[DanPoch]

Read through the thread and didn't see it mentioned of you can do your boil in 2 pots? I'm looking at taking 8ish gallons down to 5. I don't have a pot big enough to do it all together so that's out of the question. Seems that boiling 1.5 gallons off of 2 pots containing 4 gallon each would be quicker than doing it all in one. I have a stove that can handle the task. Is there a down side to doing this?

The only downside I can see is that you've got twice the chances of burning and or boiling over. The end gravities of the two pots will probably come out different, but since you would be combining them in the end I don't see that as an issue.

 

[sauerj67]

One other thing you need to keep in mind is your MLT dead space. Add that volume to your sparge water or I will use that volume of water for my sach rest.

 

[FishFace]

Being new to AG (2 Successful batches), it's (IMHO) all about process, and sticking to it. You can either be all over the place trying to remember what to do when, etc. Or have a process down. I stumbled through my first batch, it worked out due to the fact I did a recipe that I had done as AE, I had a reference point.

After that first batch, I decided to sit down (with beer of course) and write down what my basic AG process. I also spent the time to mock a brew, with all the tubing switches, etc. This gave me the chance to measure captured volumes and include those in my water needs.The next time, I was able to play with the kids, etc. My liquor volume and final volumes were dead on. Efficiency was 80+% (right on target).

The other of course is scientific process, never change more than one variable at a time. You'll never know what worked better that way. And finally, you are making beer so relax.

 

[Jewsh]

Being new to AG (2 Successful batches), it's (IMHO) all about process, and sticking to it. You can either be all over the place trying to remember what to do when, etc. Or have a process down. I stumbled through my first batch, it worked out due to the fact I did a recipe that I had done as AE, I had a reference point.

After that first batch, I decided to sit down (with beer of course) and write down what my basic AG process. I also spent the time to mock a brew, with all the tubing switches, etc. This gave me the chance to measure captured volumes and include those in my water needs.The next time, I was able to play with the kids, etc. My liquor volume and final volumes were dead on. Efficiency was 80+% (right on target).

The other of course is scientific process, never change more than one variable at a time. You'll never know what worked better that way. And finally, you are making beer so relax.

I agree, Just, don't worry, relax and have a homebrew.
Dialing in your numbers and process will come with time. It is all about expirementation with your system.

 

[Brian-d]

I have a question about these water calculations for all grain. I have just purchased a system with 15 gallon capacity. I have a recipe I'd like to try that is designed to brew a 10 gallon batch. For this there is 32.5 pounds of grain. Using your water calculations I would mash with 40.6625 quarts and sparge with 16 gallons??? This seems excessive unless I am just reading this post wrong. Please advise because obviously my 15 gallon system would not support this much liquid volume. My recipe I developed with Beersmith calls for 40.75 quarts for mashing and 5.19 for sparging. I'd attach my pdf recipe but there does not seem to be a way to attach. I look forward to hearing back. Thanks!

 

[FishFace]

That's a lot of grain. I would have to have all the data to run through my database I designed to see what it says. What type of mash. I am showing that the 32.5 lbs of grains will capture 6.4 gallons. I am showing your total water volume, (using my deadspace measurements for my brewsystem) at 17.84 gallons.

For 1 step mash. (1.1 gt/lb) mash 8.8 gallons @ 176º. Sparge (1.13 qt/lb) 9.04 gallons. Good luck

 

[Brian-d]

I'd send you my recipe sheet from beersmith but I'm not sure how to attach a document here.

 

[DirDirDirty]

Hey guys, so I've been doing extract brewing for almost two years now I guess and I want to start transitioning to AG. I've skimmed through this thread and searched the forum but I can't find anything in regards to what is actually needed as far as a setup.

I found this on another site:
Brew Pot ( 13 gallon )
Brew Pot ( 5-8 gallon )
Propane Burner, maybe 2
Lauter Tun
Metal Stirring Spoon
Mash Paddle
2 Floating Dairy Thermometers
Hydrometer and test tube
Plastic Funnel
Strainer
Hop Bags(optional)
Grain Bags
Wort Chiller or a big tub of ice

Is that everything I would need that I don't already have in my setup? How big a batch can that brew and would I need larger/different equipment for 10 gallon batches? If I'm looking at purchasing from a site such as midwestsupplies is this something I should look at. Any sites in particular that would be best to order from?

Any help would be much appreciated.