Are the labels become blurred?

[kohalajohn]

It's probably because I'm new, just returning to the hobby, so BIAB, batch sparging, that's all new to me.

But is BIAB any different from three vessel? I ask this question just because I sometimes don't know which forum to use.

I used three vessel back in the day. Now I have a Brewzilla. But it's still three vessels. The photos below show the kettle, the metal mash tun over to the side, and above the mash tun we have the orange insulated holder of hot sparge water.

But if the mash tun sits directly over the boiler, then we call it BIAB even though it's the same system.

I don't think the difference is in the sparge either, as you can batch or fly with either system. In my Brewzilla I do a slow gentle spraying of 170F sparge water, without disturbing the compact mash bed. That's fly, I believe. Or at least its' not batch.

It's seem to me that the more significant difference is vorlauf. By placing the mash tun directly over the boiler, it's easier to have a recirculating pump going for the entire mash. And I like continuous vorlauf.

For me, the label seems to be just All Grain, but with various techniques. Vorlauf or not? Batch or fly? Fast chill or not? etc.


Photos below.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

But is BIAB any different from three vessel?

It was. I think it still is (see bottom of reply).

As I understand it, in it's 'original' form, BIAB is described as a single vessel approach to brewing. The mash and boil are done in the same kettle. At the end of the mash, the bag is lifted to remove the grains. The grains are not sparged and the bag is not squeezed. Some brewers will let the bag drip into the kettle to collect some additional wort. Some brewers would will add additional water to get to 'start of boil' volume. The goal is simplicity - not extract efficiency.

I'll offer this article ('What is BIAB brewing method? (Apr 2017)?') as a quick overview of the 'original' process. The article also includes a "history of" section, which I'll include here:

[...]
A brief (and unclear) history of BIAB

First off, BIAB was never an “official” brewing method and there for is hard to trace its origin: it had evolved as a way to make beer quicker than spending a whole day brewing (as the case with all grain).

Many believe that Australians were the first to some up with the idea, namely a one “Pistol Patch” (Pat) on the AHB (Aussie Home Brewer) forum. In 2006 Pat has published a full post about how to BIAB that had become a very, very long conversation on how to’s of BIAB, worth the read!

Despite that, there are references to BIAB style brewing by Dave Line in his book The Big Book of Brewing from 1974, making it the first real reference to BIAB method, though not in name. Line was a pioneer British homebrewer and so many of the BIAB methods are actually British.

edit: the AHB article appears to be here (link).​

Perhaps, in the mid-2020s, in it's simplest definition, BIAB is any process where

• the grains are removed from the wort

rather than

• the wort is removed from the grains.

without considering the number of vessels involved or the container to remove the grains.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

For a couple of longer reads (from 2008) here at HomeBrewTalk, consider:

• Easy Partial Mash Brewing (with pics), and
• Easy Stovetop All-Grain Brewing (with pics)

 

[kevin58]

BIAB is mashing and boiling in the same vessel. Whether it be Brew In A Bag or Brew In A Basket. When the method first came into popularity most brewers used some sort of bag inside a kettle... often heated with propane at the time. Then the electric all-in-one came into vogue and the bag was replaced with a basket of some sort but the at their core they still utilize the same vessel for both boiling and mashing.

Your mash basket in an AiO btw is not the mash tun. That function is still being fulfilled by the same kettle that you boil in and the basket, malt pipe, bag, etc. is just a means to contain the grains so that you can easily remove them from the boil kettle later.

As far as sparging, vorlauf etc., those are not relevant at all to the BIAB method. Most brewers did at the beginning (and still do?) use a full volume mash with BIAB since the whole idea of the process was to simplify brewing by eliminating steps. There were always those however that maybe held back one or two gallons of that full volume to rinse the spent grains after the mash was complete.

Whether you sparge or not, vorlauf or not, recirculating or not or any other criteria you may think of has no bearing at all... If you mash and then boil in the same vessel it is BIAB.

 

[Imhoppy]

Most brewers did at the beginning (and still do?) use a full volume mash with BIAB since the whole idea of the process was to simplify brewing by eliminating steps.

Agree completely with a full volume mash. Anything else is just a lot more effort and more stuff to clean, thus overly complicating the process for hardly any worthwhile and meaningful benefit imo.

Just adjust your grain bill accordinglly to obtain your target OG and call it good.

Full volume mash forever!!!

 

[doug293cz]

Agree completely with a full volume mash. Anything else is just a lot more effort and more stuff to clean, thus overly complicating the process for hardly any worthwhile and meaningful benefit imo.

Just adjust your grain bill accordinglly to obtain your target OG and call it good.

Full volume mash forever!!!

There is s significant difference in lauter efficiency between a full volume mash and an equal run off volumes single batch/dunk sparge. On average, across a wide range of OGs/grain bill sizes, the difference is about 8 - 8.5 percentage points in favor of sparging vs. no-sparge. Multiple batch/dunk sparges will have an even larger efficiency advantage over no-sparge. A well conducted fly sparge will have an advantage over even multiple batch sparges. So, there is a trade off with efficiency vs. complexity. Each brewer must decide for themselves which is more important to them, and there are no wrong answers.

Brew on

 

[Bobby_M]

But is BIAB any different from three vessel? I ask this question just because I sometimes don't know which forum to use.

Good observation. It's annoying and technically wrong for BIAB and All grain brewing to be two separate sub forums at the same hierarchy level. BIAB is a subset of All Grain brewing but using an all in one with a separate sparge tank kind of straddling the line between the two. Dealers choice.

I used three vessel back in the day. Now I have a Brewzilla. But it's still three vessels. The photos below show the kettle, the metal mash tun over to the side, and above the mash tun we have the orange insulated holder of hot sparge water.

But if the mash tun sits directly over the boiler, then we call it BIAB even though it's the same system.

The reason an all in one is lumped in to BIAB (B meaning Basket vs. Bag in this case) is due to removing the grain from the wort rather than the wort from the grain. It's nuanced, but that's about the only difference.

I don't think the difference is in the sparge either, as you can batch or fly with either system. In my Brewzilla I do a slow gentle spraying of 170F sparge water, without disturbing the compact mash bed. That's fly, I believe. Or at least its' not batch.

It's definitely not batch sparging. It's a loose approximation of a fly sparge. If you were simulating an ideal fly sparge with that system, you'd be very slowly lifting the basket up as you added sparge water so that the top of the grainbed never got exposed to air. In other words, always liquid sparge water sitting above the grain.

It's seem to me that the more significant difference is vorlauf. By placing the mash tun directly over the boiler, it's easier to have a recirculating pump going for the entire mash. And I like continuous vorlauf.

Pump recirculated All in One systems are RIMS systems. I guess you could say that it's a constant vorlauf, but that's already assumed if you call it a recirculating system.

For me, the label seems to be just All Grain, but with various techniques. Vorlauf or not? Batch or fly? Fast chill or not? etc.


Photos below.

Nothing wrong with the way you're doing it but it can be simplified quite a bit by just not sparging. If it floats your boat, sparge away.

 

[Bobby_M]

.. Each brewer must decide for themselves which is more important to them, and there are no wrong answers.

Agree completely, with the caveat that I think people tend to have an instinct to assume higher extract efficiency is just better without answering why. I don't mean justifying it to peers on a forum but being honest about what is driving the decision to chase numbers. I mean, I was one of the players of the efficiency as a game myself.

Even if one just prefers a slightly higher efficiency if it's achievable, they don't consider the time investment and/or hassle of implementation and honestly question if the juice is worth the squeeze.

Sure.... Do, but ask yourself what if you don't.