are laundromats really that big a thing in the US?

[Kent88]

I just really hate going to the grocery store unless they have free vehicle charging. But I also know that if I don't go by myself that my spouse will buy more junk food than I want. I'm good about not buying it, but once it's in my house I can't keep away from it.

 

[Kharnynb]

For me, yes, we tend to do shopping 3 times per week on average, same as when I was still living in the netherlands.

most supermarkets here in finland are part of s-market chain or k-market chain.
these come in 3 sizes each, small for inner city, bigger for suburbs and huge for just outside town.
Generally people will do daily or every other day shopping for meat and veg at the small or mid-sized ones and then go to the big store in the weekend to stock up on pantrystuff etc. City folk will be more likely to just buy everything at their local market, while more rural people tend to go to the bigger shops.
(fun fact, the k chain used to name their shops by size, k-market, kk-market and kkk-market , they switched to k-market, k-supermarket and k-citymarket some 20 years ago)
Within the chain, the size of the shop doesn't matter, they are all the same price, they just have smaller selections, but generally even the tiny ones have a reasonable selection of fresh fruit/veg and meat, just likely less of a brand-selection and might be missing all but the minimal "household items".

 

[Deadalus]

People who live in apartments or rental units often use laundromats because landlords often don't put washers & dryers in their units.

This is often because the local municipal Building Department makes it difficult and expensive to do so - through not just their obnoxious oversight, long waits and additional costs ... but also because many local building departments prohibit landlords from doing any plumbing work themselves ... instead the bldg dept often requires a licensed/bonded contractor to be used - which is *much* more costly.

Furthermore, it is not common to have extra and ready space to install laundry facilities in the unit ... any "extra" space goes to a second bedroom, a kitchen pantry, or larger rooms in general ... this is particularly the case in purpose-built multi-family housing. It's all in the numbers.

Rental units and especially rental houses often are absolutely notorious "alligators" ... that is, they actually have negative profitability when all costs are included in properly ... debt service, contractor and construction costs, maintenance, taxes, insurance etc etc etc. It takes a LOT more calculations which accurately expense inclusions to run rentals which actually break even and many landlords, instead, try to rely on being able to eventually sell the property for a capital gain and suffer through the poverty and misery of costs and operations in the meantime.

A dryer is going to need either 30 amp 240V service or a gas line (propane or natural gas) plus a 4" vent. A washing machine is going to need hot and cold lines plus a 2" drain. A skilled tradesman is a very good idea for both installations and a reasonably good idea for renter safety vs a hack of a landlord doing it on the cheap. The argument you make at the end pretty much ensures that the landlord will do it on the cheap. Plus as noted, if they unit was not designed with a washer and dryer in mind, needing to run a 2" waste line and a 4" exhaust vent may require careful consideration. The 2" can't be run horizontally through 2x4 stud walls (maybe metal studs, I don't know about those) and the washer will need to be tied in to to the existing drain lines. Screw up the dryer vent and the building may burn down or be a mold pit. As a homeowner and knowledgeable DIYer I appreciate that I am allowed to perform these renovations by my town as the homeowner and occupant and have done so but it is a different story for a renter who may also live in a multiunit dwelling.

The above is not particularly relevant to housing units with built in laundry space. When that's the case, landlords may or may not provide the washers and dryers but usually the renter is aware that it is in their best interest to have one as it will be cheaper than the laundromat. That's what I did even when I was a poor college student renting. The presence or absence of housing units with laundry hookups is largely the driver for the density of laundromats. Besides being able to properly install hookups, I have also become quite adept at repairing washers and dryers. [Quick aside, there is often a repair manual located inside the appliance meant for repair technicians.] In my general area, there are but a couple of laundromats which I discovered while waiting for parts. There are few apartment buildings locally, although there are two small colleges. Having lived in both types previously, those types of places in general will have centrally located laundry rooms available for residents.

I was recently camping and needed to use the campground laundromat. Lo and behold, the machines were connected to an app!

 

[easttex]

So I'm just a dumb euro-poor and I'd never knew that the whole going to the laundromat/building washing machine was common in the US, i thought it always was just a thing in new york tv-series.
We don't really have anything like that here, except for some specialty services for big carpets or clothing that needs steamcleaning or such.
Since a basic second-hand washing machine can be picked up at any recycling center here, fixed and with a 6 month warranty for 100 euro's it sounds super wasteful to go to a place where you have to spend money on washing every week.
So is this just one of those cultural things or is there some special reason behind it?

There's still plenty of laundromats in the States. My former stepfather used to own several and I spent time as a teenager working with him to keep them running. Having seen what goes into the machines (e.g. poopy cloth baby diapers, etc) I prefer to avoid them. That, and they're frequently located in a part of town where you may get assaulted and relieved of your valuables.

With that said, the mobile home I lived in while in college simply had no space or provision for a washer/dryer hook up. It lacked a dish washer (and air conditioning) as well. It was a tiny thing but it was cheap. Hence, I either had to haul clothes to my parents' house or pay to use the laundromat by the university. That's a real drag in my opinion because I'd much rather be somewhere else doing something else than bored at the laundromat.

We spent a week in Madrid in 2019 and stayed at a hotel downtown. There was a small laundromat just down the way from the hotel where we washed all our clothes before packing up to travel home. I recall the laundry being kind of expensive but we were paying for convenience.

On the topic of supermarkets - they're everywhere in the states. The town of 35,000 I grew up in has five, plus numerous quickie mart type convenience stores that sell groceries too. Gas stations, particularly in rural areas, also sell a lot of groceries as well as I discovered when I lived out of town. You pay a bit more for the convenience but it beats a 30 min ride back to town when all you need is baking powder or a bottle of Worchestershire sauce.

 

[Jacob_Marley]

A dryer is going to need either 30 amp 240V service or a gas line (propane or natural gas) plus a 4" vent. A washing machine is going to need hot and cold lines plus a 2" drain. A skilled tradesman is a very good idea for both installations and a reasonably good idea for renter safety vs a hack of a landlord doing it on the cheap. The argument you make at the end pretty much ensures that the landlord will do it on the cheap. Plus as noted, if they unit was not designed with a washer and dryer in mind, needing to run a 2" waste line and a 4" exhaust vent may require careful consideration. The 2" can't be run horizontally through 2x4 stud walls (maybe metal studs, I don't know about those) and the washer will need to be tied in to to the existing drain lines. Screw up the dryer vent and the building may burn down or be a mold pit. As a homeowner and knowledgeable DIYer I appreciate that I am allowed to perform these renovations by my town as the homeowner and occupant and have done so but it is a different story for a renter who may also live in a multiunit dwelling.

The above is not particularly relevant to housing units with built in laundry space. When that's the case, landlords may or may not provide the washers and dryers but usually the renter is aware that it is in their best interest to have one as it will be cheaper than the laundromat. That's what I did even when I was a poor college student renting. The presence or absence of housing units with laundry hookups is largely the driver for the density of laundromats. Besides being able to properly install hookups, I have also become quite adept at repairing washers and dryers. [Quick aside, there is often a repair manual located inside the appliance meant for repair technicians.] In my general area, there are but a couple of laundromats which I discovered while waiting for parts. There are few apartment buildings locally, although there are two small colleges. Having lived in both types previously, those types of places in general will have centrally located laundry rooms available for residents.

I was recently camping and needed to use the campground laundromat. Lo and behold, the machines were connected to an app!

Exactly what (to quote you) “argument” are you accusing me of making “at the end” of my previous post which “insures the landlord will do it on the cheap” ?
When it comes to laundry facilities in the unit, many landlords won't do it at all.

You need to go back and read that “at the end” section again.
In the last paragraph, I state that “It takes a lot more calculations which accurately expense inclusions, to run rentals which actually break even". It is difficult to make the numbers meet, and "negative profitability" is a significant reason why many rentals do not have laundry facilities installed.

Maybe you didn’t notice but this thread was about the prevalence of laundromats, and the question is asked by the original poster “is there some special reason behind it?”.
I am responding to the original poster's *question*.

It would appear that you were confused by my point about the Building Department and requiring contractors for the installation of laundry facilities? ... read it right to the end, what were the final few words?
Let me help you here ... those words are “is much more costly”.
Costly, as in why in-unit laundry facilities often don’t make it into the budget ... and consequently there are more laundromats.

You might want to read more carefully next time.

 

[Kent88]

On the topic of supermarkets - they're everywhere in the states. The town of 35,000 I grew up in has five, plus numerous quickie mart type convenience stores that sell groceries too. Gas stations, particularly in rural areas, also sell a lot of groceries as well as I discovered when I lived out of town. You pay a bit more for the convenience but it beats a 30 min ride back to town when all you need is baking powder or a bottle of Worchestershire sauce.

I wish this was the case in the part of the U.S. I have lived in. I think my home county (a very rural county) had three quality grocery stores / supermarkets, and I think they're down to two now. Most of the smaller communities had no convenience stores that would sell quality flour, sugar, or produce. I've avoided food deserts since moving out of my parents place, arguably until this house. We have one store, and it's better than nothing, but not by much.

 

[Kharnynb]

are dishwashers more common than washing machines? over here, it's the opposite, most "low rent" places won't have a dishwasher, but all will have washing machine connections.

 

[Kent88]

are dishwashers more common than washing machines? over here, it's the opposite, most "low rent" places won't have a dishwasher, but all will have washing machine connections.

My #1 advice to newly married couples is to have and maintain a decent quality dishwasher. Our first apartment had no dishwasher, and it was the source of most of our newlywed arguments.

 

[Deadalus]

Exactly what (to quote you) “argument” are you accusing me of making “at the end” of my previous post which “insures the landlord will do it on the cheap” ?
When it comes to laundry facilities in the unit, many landlords won't do it at all.

You need to go back and read that “at the end” section again.
In the last paragraph, I state that “It takes a lot more calculations which accurately expense inclusions, to run rentals which actually break even". It is difficult to make the numbers meet, and "negative profitability" is a significant reason why many rentals do not have laundry facilities installed.

Maybe you didn’t notice but this thread was about the prevalence of laundromats, and the question is asked by the original poster “is there some special reason behind it?”.
I am responding to the original poster's *question*.

It would appear that you were confused by my point about the Building Department and requiring contractors for the installation of laundry facilities? ... read it right to the end, what were the final few words?
Let me help you here ... those words are “is much more costly”.
Costly, as in why in-unit laundry facilities often don’t make it into the budget ... and consequently there are more laundromats.

You might want to read more carefully next time.

You ought to read more carefully with the understanding that words have multiple definitions.

argument def-a reason or set of reasons given with the aim of persuading others that an action or idea is right or wrong.
"there is a strong argument for submitting a formal appeal"

You made an argument that "landlords often don't put washers & dryers in their units"..."because many local building departments prohibit landlords from doing any plumbing work themselves ... instead the bldg dept often requires a licensed/bonded contractor to be used - which is *much* more costly." You did this in response to the OP. I am responding to your argument concerning the building department, my doing so is entirely reasonable particularly since I thought your argument lacked proper consideration of the complexities of plumbing and electrical work. Subsequent posts in a thread do not have to strictly address the OP but can and do respond to statements made following.

In my post (#33) where I used the word argument, I was referring to your argument concerning "notorious alligators" which is in effect you making the case that landlords need to be cheap to begin with and thus not likely to spend the money to use skilled tradespeople. In my experience landlords are quite cheap and many many times I have seen them perform work quite shoddily. Your phrasing "the local municipal Building Department makes it difficult and expensive to do so - through not just their obnoxious oversight, long waits and additional costs..." followed by "but also because many local building departments prohibit landlords from doing any plumbing work themselves" implies you disagree with the Building Department's procedures that you have mentioned.

And further, it's not that the landlords won't renovate the units that the renters use the laundromats. Renters would already need to use the laundromats because the builders didn't put washer and dryer connections in when the place was built. Note also, in most cases new construction requires inspections and installation by licensed tradespeople to begin with, so asking the same later isn't exactly onerous or difficult for a renovation.

 

[McMullan]

That, and they're frequently located in a part of town where you may get assaulted and relieved of your valuables.

Students are getting increasingly desperate these days. Survival of the fittest in the streets around university campuses. I'd make a point of avoiding them, especially at night.

 

[madscientist451]

I just really hate going to the grocery store unless they have free vehicle charging. But I also know that if I don't go by myself that my spouse will buy more junk food than I want. I'm good about not buying it, but once it's in my house I can't keep away from it.

Is anything really free? The cost of charging YOUR vehicle being added to all the items in the store, so basically everyone else is paying for your transportation. I guess I should stop whining, get with the program and buy a $80K electric vehicle and get "free" charging.

 

[Kent88]

Is anything really free? The cost of charging YOUR vehicle being added to all the items in the store, so basically everyone else is paying for your transportation. I guess I should stop whining, get with the program and buy a $80K electric vehicle and get "free" charging.

Good grief, I kept that statement as short as I could to try and avoid anyone getting hung up on it while being honest about how I feel spending time in grocery stores, and you couldn't let it ride.

I didn't go on about EVs, I didn't try to sell you one, I didn't go on a rant about how much I like the PHEV that I own. I just commented about one perk that I occasionally get. It was six words, none of them were profanity, violent, sexually perverse, or discriminatory.

 

[SteveH aka shetc]

Yes, it would appear that laundromats are a big thing.

 

[McMullan]

Launderette Talk?

 

[Steveruch]

I can see how you  might view the humble launderette in a negative way, but, as a potentially important element of any community, I think you should give it another chance.

No thanks. We went from very sub-standard housing in Northern California to being able to buy a house in Indiana. One of the first things we got was a washer/dryer set.

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

are dishwashers more common than washing machines? over here, it's the opposite, most "low rent" places won't have a dishwasher, but all will have washing machine connections.

I would say yes.

And it may be as simple as what @Deadalus brought up... A dishwasher only requires 120V and it's obviously typically located in an area that it can be plumbed into the existing drains for the sink, so it's probably easier and cheaper to integrate a dishwasher in a kitchen plan than to provision for a washer/dryer.

 

[Kharnynb]

Dryer I can understand, but a washer should be just as easy in the same spot?

 

[easttex]

are dishwashers more common than washing machines? over here, it's the opposite, most "low rent" places won't have a dishwasher, but all will have washing machine connections.

I'd say that every housing development since maybe 1980 has a dishwasher. I don't recall being in any apartments ever that did not. Typically, all it takes to hook up a dishwasher is a space between cabinets near the kitchen sink and access to the kitchen sink's hot water tap and drain, as well as a 120V outlet. All of that is pretty easy to provide since power and water are already in the room.

A washer/dryer hook up requires more plumbing, a 240V circuit for the dryer, and a vent that runs outside. While nearly all modern multi-family housing has some provision for this, many still do not

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

Dryer I can understand, but a washer should be just as easy in the same spot?

Who is gonna put a clothes washer in their kitchen?

 

[Kharnynb]

I'd say that every housing development since maybe 1980 has a dishwasher. I don't recall being in any apartments ever that did not. Typically, all it takes to hook up a dishwasher is a space between cabinets near the kitchen sink and access to the kitchen sink's hot water tap and drain, as well as a 120V outlet. All of that is pretty easy to provide since power and water are already in the room.

A washer/dryer hook up requires more plumbing, a 240V circuit for the dryer, and a vent that runs outside. While nearly all modern multi-family housing has some provision for this, many still do not

but a compact front-loader would fit there just as well, no?
I'd rather wash dishes by hand and do laundry in the machine than drag my laundry around every time, dryers are only common in houses here, not in apartments, where you usually would just use a drying rack in the corner of the room.

 

[Kharnynb]

Who is gonna put a clothes washer in their kitchen?

it's more common in the bathroom here, but kitchen isn't unheard of, why would that be weird? especially in a small place.

 

[easttex]

but a compact front-loader would fit there just as well, no?
I'd rather wash dishes by hand and do laundry in the machine than drag my laundry around every time, dryers are only common in houses here, not in apartments, where you usually would just use a drying rack in the corner of the room.

I've never seen a washing machine that would fit in place of a dishwasher. Not saying they don't exist, but I've never heard of it.

There's no reason you couldn't have a stackable washer/dryer combo in the kitchen area since it's near the kitchen plumbing - and indeed I know of apartments with that set up.

If you're unlucky enough to live somewhere with neither connections for a dishwasher nor a washing machine, there are "portable" units available that run off your kitchen sink. I guess you could save up for a portable washing machine and a countertop dishwasher and dry your clothes on the shower rod? I used to have a counter top dishwasher and it sure beat handwashing all to hell, even if it was loud and had to run twice to get them clean. But if you're poor and can only afford to live someplace without a dishwasher and washer/dryer hook up, I doubt you can afford the portable units so I guess it's all academic anyway...

 

[Kharnynb]

we use these for drying, you just fold them up when you don't need them:

people who live in bigger houses do have dryers often, we do nowadays, but even then I often dry on the outdoor lines as it saves some cash and smells nice

 

[Jacob_Marley]

You ought to read more carefully with the understanding that words have multiple definitions.

argument def-a reason or set of reasons given with the aim of persuading others that an action or idea is right or wrong.
"there is a strong argument for submitting a formal appeal"

You made an argument that "landlords often don't put washers & dryers in their units"..."because many local building departments prohibit landlords from doing any plumbing work themselves ... instead the bldg dept often requires a licensed/bonded contractor to be used - which is *much* more costly." You did this in response to the OP. I am responding to your argument concerning the building department, my doing so is entirely reasonable particularly since I thought your argument lacked proper consideration of the complexities of plumbing and electrical work. Subsequent posts in a thread do not have to strictly address the OP but can and do respond to statements made following.

In my post (#33) where I used the word argument, I was referring to your argument concerning "notorious alligators" which is in effect you making the case that landlords need to be cheap to begin with and thus not likely to spend the money to use skilled tradespeople. In my experience landlords are quite cheap and many many times I have seen them perform work quite shoddily. Your phrasing "the local municipal Building Department makes it difficult and expensive to do so - through not just their obnoxious oversight, long waits and additional costs..." followed by "but also because many local building departments prohibit landlords from doing any plumbing work themselves" implies you disagree with the Building Department's procedures that you have mentioned.

And further, it's not that the landlords won't renovate the units that the renters use the laundromats. Renters would already need to use the laundromats because the builders didn't put washer and dryer connections in when the place was built. Note also, in most cases new construction requires inspections and installation by licensed tradespeople to begin with, so asking the same later isn't exactly onerous or difficult for a renovation.

Geez pal, you’re wasting my time.

My "argument", as you put it, is ONLY that there are more laundromats because many landlords don't install laundry facilities due to cost. Period!

And, when it comes to those said laundry facilities, the cost of the building department's oversight is one source of expense which contributes to the issue of not putting those laundry facilities in. Do you disagree with that?
What problem do you have in understanding that?

Your having trotted out a definition of "argument",(to quote you) "persuading others that an action or idea is right or wrong", has no bearing here.
You are begging a point that was never made.
I am *not* saying whether landlords should be allowed to do their own plumbing work ... I am stating that the effect of more expensive contracted work, leads to having to make further choices in what improvements might be added to a rental ... and in *my* experience, did lead me to decide that I would not put laundry facilities in three of my previous rental units.
And yes, my renters did in fact have to go to the laundromat.

Yes, yes I hear your "don't run with those pencils you'll poke out an eye" whine about not letting a landlord do their own work. Your one-sided, irrational disdain for landlords in general makes you not credible and makes anything you say indelibly suspect.
Again, my comment is NOT about whether property-owner landlords should be allowed to do such work; my comment is about the effect of costs on the lack of laundry facilities in rentals, and how that drives people to need laundromats.
This is not about what *you* want the topic to be but what the *original poster* wanted the topic to be.

You state: "... (notorious alligators), which is in effect you making the case that landlords need to be cheap to begin with"

You are so delusional that it is hard to believe. I never made the case that landlords need to be cheap! ... I suggested that, when evaluating improvements to a rental, that higher costs knock certain improvements like laundry facilities out of contention.

That "alligators" statement I made alludes to the fact that in the battle between the cost of establishing a rental unit, and keeping rents reasonable so that people can afford them - at a certain point, some improvements can't be made.
Either you raise the rent, or don't do the improvements ... or don't buy the building.
And as I note, this has lead to a lot of property-owner landlords accepting the reality of not being profitable ... and instead hoping their efforts reward them with capital gains in the end. I have been careful to not get myself in that position, but I've seen it happen ... in fact, this was the case for the sellers in more than one of the properties I've purchased.

Plainly you are only capable of responding from one, biased perspective.

You stated that what I said implies I "disagree with the Building Department's procedures" ... it does *not* imply that. My statements imply that using contracted trades work increases the cost of adding of laundry facilities in rentals.
NO ... I do NOT support drunken shoemakers installing home wiring instead of electrical contractors. I've fully renovated a number of houses, one 4-unit purpose built building, a number of single family homes, and 3 duplexes converted from single family ... including at least one going back to 1892 ... I have seen my share of head-scratching ridiculousness in the work done from years gone by. I fully endorse the desirability of work done to code and using good professional contractors.

And as far as complications with building departments; you probably don't understand this but, the completion date for a unit determines when rents can start; and *that* specifically affects the overall feasibility (and rents) of a project.
I've previously had inspections for work delayed over and over, and in one case by more than 5 months due to alleged staffing shortages. In that particular municipality the well-known fact was that the city had instructed the building department to squeeze the rentals out of the city.
You hear people complain about the unaffordability of housing? - well THAT is part of it. You may not be sympathetic to that issue but it is a huge problem.

You should not be so self-consumed with your own narrow-minded, tiny-fisted petulant rants, pal.
You are picking fights over imaginary points that exist only in your own head.
My posts are a comment about why there are more laundromats. Period.

Your off-topic and unfounded rants have successfully reduced your personal credibility to the point that I am not willing to reply back to you further.

 

[madscientist451]

I just commented about one perk that I occasionally get. It was six words, none of them were profanity, violent, sexually perverse, or discriminatory.

So? And I commented that I should go into debt, get an expensive electric car and let everyone else pay for my "free" charging....
What's wrong?
I'll hit my head some more....

 

[Kent88]

So? And I commented that I should go into debt, get an expensive electric car and let everyone else pay for my "free" charging....
What's wrong?
I'll hit my head some more....

 

[day_trippr]

Clothes washers in kitchens are pretty common in Europe, and likely more so than dishwashers...

Cheers!

 

[Martys1]

Hi , as a previous renter,apartment and houses, one of the agreements on the paperwork stipulates that the landlord must pay one utility. Since gas and electric usually cost more, they take the water. So because of that they usually don’t allow washers that use more water that increases their cost.

 

[Deadalus]

Geez pal, you’re wasting my time.

My "argument", as you put it, is ONLY that there are more laundromats because many landlords don't install laundry facilities due to cost. Period!

And, when it comes to those said laundry facilities, the cost of the building department's oversight is one source of expense which contributes to the issue of not putting those laundry facilities in. Do you disagree with that?
What problem do you have in understanding that?

Your having trotted out a definition of "argument",(to quote you) "persuading others that an action or idea is right or wrong", has no bearing here.
You are begging a point that was never made.
I am *not* saying whether landlords should be allowed to do their own plumbing work ... I am stating that the effect of more expensive contracted work, leads to having to make further choices in what improvements might be added to a rental ... and in *my* experience, did lead me to decide that I would not put laundry facilities in three of my previous rental units.
And yes, my renters did in fact have to go to the laundromat.

Yes, yes I hear your "don't run with those pencils you'll poke out an eye" whine about not letting a landlord do their own work. Your one-sided, irrational disdain for landlords in general makes you not credible and makes anything you say indelibly suspect.
Again, my comment is NOT about whether property-owner landlords should be allowed to do such work; my comment is about the effect of costs on the lack of laundry facilities in rentals, and how that drives people to need laundromats.
This is not about what *you* want the topic to be but what the *original poster* wanted the topic to be.

You state: "... (notorious alligators), which is in effect you making the case that landlords need to be cheap to begin with"

You are so delusional that it is hard to believe. I never made the case that landlords need to be cheap! ... I suggested that, when evaluating improvements to a rental, that higher costs knock certain improvements like laundry facilities out of contention.

That "alligators" statement I made alludes to the fact that in the battle between the cost of establishing a rental unit, and keeping rents reasonable so that people can afford them - at a certain point, some improvements can't be made.
Either you raise the rent, or don't do the improvements ... or don't buy the building.
And as I note, this has lead to a lot of property-owner landlords accepting the reality of not being profitable ... and instead hoping their efforts reward them with capital gains in the end. I have been careful to not get myself in that position, but I've seen it happen ... in fact, this was the case for the sellers in more than one of the properties I've purchased.

Plainly you are only capable of responding from one, biased perspective.

You stated that what I said implies I "disagree with the Building Department's procedures" ... it does *not* imply that. My statements imply that using contracted trades work increases the cost of adding of laundry facilities in rentals.
NO ... I do NOT support drunken shoemakers installing home wiring instead of electrical contractors. I've fully renovated a number of houses, one 4-unit purpose built building, a number of single family homes, and 3 duplexes converted from single family ... including at least one going back to 1892 ... I have seen my share of head-scratching ridiculousness in the work done from years gone by. I fully endorse the desirability of work done to code and using good professional contractors.

And as far as complications with building departments; you probably don't understand this but, the completion date for a unit determines when rents can start; and *that* specifically affects the overall feasibility (and rents) of a project.
I've previously had inspections for work delayed over and over, and in one case by more than 5 months due to alleged staffing shortages. In that particular municipality the well-known fact was that the city had instructed the building department to squeeze the rentals out of the city.
You hear people complain about the unaffordability of housing? - well THAT is part of it. You may not be sympathetic to that issue but it is a huge problem.

You should not be so self-consumed with your own narrow-minded, tiny-fisted petulant rants, pal.
You are picking fights over imaginary points that exist only in your own head.
My posts are a comment about why there are more laundromats. Period.

Your off-topic and unfounded rants have successfully reduced your personal credibility to the point that I am not willing to reply back to you further.

Seems like you can't even keep your argument straight at this point so good you won't respond. This is exactly what you said in post #27

People who live in apartments or rental units often use laundromats because landlords often don't put washers & dryers in their units.

This is often because the local municipal Building Department makes it difficult and expensive to do so - through not just their obnoxious oversight, long waits and additional costs ... but also because many local building departments prohibit landlords from doing any plumbing work themselves ... instead the bldg dept often requires a licensed/bonded contractor to be used - which is *much* more costly.

Then up above in post #54 you say the following:

I fully endorse the desirability of work done to code and using good professional contractors.

You are obviously complaining about the building department requirements in the rant you initiated. Yet you are calling the building department difficult for doing something you endorse. If you and the building department are in agreement then, that means you and the dept. expect the work to be to the same level of quality, therefore the work wouldn't cost any more. I don't see how you think that the building dept is making it difficult and expensive when doing something you endorse? Which one is it pal? Making it difficult and expensive (YES or NO).

Kind of moot though as it's the builder, whether that is the current landlord or not, who is responsible for the lack of laundry hookups. Full stop. It's THE BUILDER. What happens afterward is predicated on the unit being built. Which I already said with no response from you so any poor reading comprehension is evidently on you. (I even bolded it in the post for you pal, post #39.) I am ignoring your boldface question above because (in case you missed where I said "Kind of moot") it is kind of moot to claim the landlords being the reason, since the builders are the real reason. From the get-go, the builders create a pool of laundromat users about a week into the very first rental of a unit without hookups.

Besides you also assuming landlords act rationally in their decision making, which also is kind of moot (again).

 

[SteveH aka shetc]

Even Susan Tedeschi still goes to the laundromat