Are finings effective to achieve clearer beer?

[Powers]

I've never used any clearing agents for my beer. And, I wouldn't start now if it wasn't for my latest assignment. My sister-in-law is getting engaged and has commissioned me to brew her a special toasting beer for the reception. Given some research of her tastes and the November wedding, she would like a Cherries in the Snow beer in line with Papazian's recipe. From comments, I get the feeling she is perceiving a crystal clear red beer.

Being one to please the crowd, I figured I would at least research some fining agents. I have two potential cloud culprits: chill haze and pectin haze. I could pectic enzyme for the pectin issue and, if brewed right, shouldn't have too much anyway.

But the finings are more mysterious to me. Do they impart off flavors? Do they really work? Should I be looking at something like Super Kleer KC finings?

Any input would be very much appreciated!

 

[Edcculus]

There are 2 basic classes of finings. Kettle and post fermentation.

Kettle finings include Irish Moss and Whirlfloc. Both aid in coagulating and precipitating proteins in the boil

There are a whole slew of post fermentation finings. Gelatin, Isinglass, Polyclar, KC Kleer et al. These should be used once fermentation is completed since one thing they help do is clear yeast left in suspension. Finings like Gelatin work better when the beer is cold. Out of the lot, I've only used Gelatin. There are plenty of threads here on how to use it if you are inclined. I'll use gelatin after racking to a keg and the beer has been in the kegerator for a day or two.

You also mentioned pectic enzyme. That is used in cider or wine making to break down the pectin in fruits. If you are careful not to heat up the cherries, you shouldn't end up with the pectin set. Even so, a teaspoon of pectic enzyme when you are adding the cherries would be cheap insurance. If you don't want to buy a whole bottle of the stuff, you will probably be fine.

If used correctly, none of these finings should leave any taste. For kettle finings, you are only using a teaspoon. About the same for the other post fermentation finings.

 

[Starderup]

yes

 

[skiwithg]

I alway use a 1/2 tab of whirfloc in the BK and 1/2 pack of gelatin after fermentation is complete. With lighter beers, I seem to have a protein haze problem which I just can't clear with other methods. I tried bentonite (which has the opposite charge of gelatin) on the last batch and though that beer is somewhat darker, it cleared to brilliant with first gelatin and then bentonite (and racked off afterward). I will try the bentonite with the next Kolsch to see if it helps with very light beers.

Cheers,
Glenn

 

[Powers]

Kettle finings include Irish Moss and Whirlfloc. Both aid in coagulating and precipitating proteins in the boil

I've had very little luck with irish moss in clearing lighter beers. I've never used whirlfloc, but it sounds dangerously unnatural *casts suspicious glare*

You also mentioned pectic enzyme. That is used in cider or wine making to break down the pectin in fruits. If you are careful not to heat up the cherries, you shouldn't end up with the pectin set. Even so, a teaspoon of pectic enzyme when you are adding the cherries would be cheap insurance. If you don't want to buy a whole bottle of the stuff, you will probably be fine.

The recipe calls for dumping cherries in right after the boil and letting sit for a 15 min spell at 160 degrees. If I manage to screw it up and it gets too hot, I figured the haze was likely. I'll probably give a cheap insurance policy for the pectin issue, not sure about the other post-ferm finings.

 

[Powers]

I alway use a 1/2 tab of whirfloc in the BK and 1/2 pack of gelatin after fermentation is complete. With lighter beers, I seem to have a protein haze problem which I just can't clear with other methods. I tried bentonite (which has the opposite charge of gelatin) on the last batch and though that beer is somewhat darker, it cleared to brilliant with first gelatin and then bentonite (and racked off afterward). I will try the bentonite with the next Kolsch to see if it helps with very light beers.

Cheers,
Glenn

Bentonite is used in a slurry to seal the leftover hole from old groundwater wells that are decommissioned. Not sure I want that in my beer! But that seems to be a recurring theme with alot of these fining agents.

thanks for the input everyone! if anyone else has experience with the post-ferm finings, i'd love to hear it....

 

[Edcculus]

FWIW, Whirlfloc is just powdered carrageenan (seaweed) in tablet form. The exact same thing as Irish Moss except a lot more effective.

 

[babalu87]

yes

So much of this

 

[Beernik]

Bentonite is clay.

 

[Powers]

Bentonite is clay.

impure clay, if we wanted to get technical, but okay to consume so far as it goes i guess.


good to know about the natural fining agents. i'm going to go on a limp and guess 'polycar' is not natural, not sure about super kleen.


thanks, thanks, and thanks fellas, even the yes guys

 

[dwarven_stout]

Yes.

Polyclar is powdered PVC plastic, and is used to strip tannins. I've steered clear of it because I've heard tell that filtering is recommended to remove it after it clears the beer.

Isinglass is commonly used, and that's made from fish bladders. Not sure that's better than using clay. In any case, gelatin has done the trick for me when I needed it to.

 

[dstar26t]

Finnings are only part of getting a clear beer. How do you chill the wort? What yeast does the recipe call for? Do you know how much calcium is in your water? Are your beers clear now?

 

[Powers]

my beers are very clear until they go into the fridge for more than 2 hours. then they get a pretty good chill haze.

i chill the wort with cooling coil and for yeast i'm using WLP001 (CA Ale).

 

[Starderup]

It is true that they are just one tool you can use. Leaving it in the primary a long time helps. Cold crashing helps. Careful racking helps. Gelatin is good if you use a secondary. I just can't imagine putting powdered polyvinylchloride in my beer and giving it to unsuspecting people to drink, though!

 

[Edcculus]

Finnings are only part of getting a clear beer. How do you chill the wort? What yeast does the recipe call for? Do you know how much calcium is in your water? Are your beers clear now?

Very true. Quick chilling will promote a good cold break and help prevent the chill haze. Worst case scenario, once the beer is bottled and carbonated, stick them in the fridge for as long as possible (weeks/months). A long time a cooler temperatures will do wonders to clear a beer.

You could also consider using a more floccuent yeast. The Chico strain is a notorious low flocculating yeast.

 

[dstar26t]

Things than will help that I've learned/tried:
-Keep the runnings out of your mash clear and below a pH of 5.8
-Good rolling boil (maybe up to 90 min, 10%+ boil-off per hour)
-Whirlfloc
-Good cold break during chilling and leave the cold break behind
-At least 50 ppm Ca in the mash and boil
-Maybe try an English yeast strain
-Cold crash to 32F after fermentation until clear
-Gelatin
-Careful racking

 

[Powers]

I just can't imagine putting powdered polyvinylchloride in my beer and giving it to unsuspecting people to drink, though!

I'm with you on this point, especially all the unsuspecting people at the wedding reception for which this beer is being made! not to mention the fact that a large percentage will be natural food fanatics...

 

[Starderup]

I'm with you on this point, especially all the unsuspecting people at the wedding reception for which this beer is being made! not to mention the fact that a large percentage will be natural food fanatics...

They used to filter beer with asbestos, unbelievably. That is the only thing I can think of that would be worse.

 

[Powers]

dstar, i've never done a post-fermentation cold crash. the only way i could do it is with an ice bath, which with salt and water i could probably only get near 40 degrees.

 

[Powers]

mmmm, nothing more refreshing than an ice cold asbestos filtered brew :cross:

 

[dstar26t]

dstar, i've never done a post-fermentation cold crash. the only way i could do it is with an ice bath, which with salt and water i could probably only get near 40 degrees.

If it is in fact chill haze that's your issue and you can't cold crash and don't want to use PVPP, you have to try your best to keep those haze forming proteins or tannins out of your finished beer in the first place. I'd rather keep the proteins and get rid of the tannins which is what PVPP does. Chill haze only forms when you have the proteins plus the tannins in solution. Tannins are added during mashing/lautering and when you add hops to the boil. Keeping an eye on pH will help you there and keeping grain/husk material out of the kettle will also help. A rigorous 90 min boil using whirlfloc at the end will help coagulation. A good cold break will also help. You could even chill the wort cooler than pitching temp (to get more cold break), remove the wort from the extra cold break and let warm up before pitching. I've read about people using gelatin while the beer is warm and having good results but I've never tried it at warm temps.

 

[Powers]

good stuff, thanks dstar!