Apple wines, bottle conditioning a clear product

[NerdrageIMO]

Hello.

I've gotten into making ciders and meads last year.

I'm going big for this personal batch of Apple wine. It got up to around 16%.

All of my apple based beverages ferment to dryness in about a month. They begin to smell normal after about two months.

My go to yeast is ec-1118. It's cheap and leaves little taste on the final product.


I was wondering if there was a way to bottle condition a cider that has been cleared with dining agents, enzymes, and filtration.

I like my cider bubbly, so I'm willing to forgo any fining.

On the topic of bottling, at what gravity is it ok to bottle in Belgian style ambers? 750ml. How about champagne bottles?

Thanks in advance for any info.

 

[Monster481]

Someone of more experience might have some more food for thought, but I have found through research of this site and a few others, that using Potassium Metabisulfite and Potassium Sorbate to stop the yeast and to preserve the batch from fermenting ever again will then allow you to backsweeten with juices or concetrates. I bottle carb my batches with water and Brown sugar and a little vanilla without killing the yeast. I let it set for 3-5days which seems to be the right amount of carb then stove top pasteurize. I have not had luck cold crashing. I'm somewhat new to this as well so that's why I say some with more experience might have a better answer or more detailed.

 

[Maylar]

16% is toward the limit of even EC-1118. And with the finings and filtering there's probably not much yeast left to bottle condition. Though it would probably work if you added a pinch of yeast at bottling time.

Belgian bottles should handle 4 volumes of CO2 and champagne bottles over 7.

 

[bernardsmith]

The formula for calculating the amount of sugar you need to produce the specific volumes of CO2 (or atmospheric pressure) you want is

volumes per litre wanted x 1.96 g/volume = number of grams/L of CO2, with the assumption that .46 of the sugar is converted into CO2 AND the sugar you are adding to prime your wine is perfectly fermentable - so,

If you are looking for 2.5 volumes of CO2 then you need to add 4.9 g of sugar per liter of wine (or about 20 g of sugar /gallon or about 0.7 ounce /gallon (or 3.5 oz for 5 gallons) - (note that this is a large 2.5 volumes as I am assuming that there are 4 L to a gallon but the conversion is closer to 3.7 L ).

 

[NerdrageIMO]

The formula for calculating the amount of sugar you need to produce the specific volumes of CO2 (or atmospheric pressure) you want is

volumes per litre wanted x 1.96 g/volume = number of grams/L of CO2, with the assumption that .46 of the sugar is converted into CO2 AND the sugar you are adding to prime your wine is perfectly fermentable - so,

If you are looking for 2.5 volumes of CO2 then you need to add 4.9 g of sugar per liter of wine (or about 20 g of sugar /gallon or about 0.7 ounce /gallon (or 3.5 oz for 5 gallons) - (note that this is a large 2.5 volumes as I am assuming that there are 4 L to a gallon but the conversion is closer to 3.7 L ).

This is if the cider has fermented completely dry, right?

Right now I think the yeast is on its last legs. The fermentation has slowed down a lot... It's at 1.004.. Usually it ferments to around 0.990..

You think it would just be ok to pitch part of a raspberry yeast starter that went to dry onto the cider and add 25g?
I'm looking at putting this into the champagne bottles... The belgian bottles are for another batch, but this info applies.

thanks!

 

[bernardsmith]

A gravity of 1.004 suggests that there is still about 1/10 of a lb of sugar in the cider (or about 1.6 oz. Adding 25 g means that there will be about 2.5 oz altogether (25 g = about .9 oz) . By my calculations that is likely to produce about 10 volumes, which is significantly more than Maylar suggested that champagne bottles are designed to withstand...But yer pays yer money and yer takes yer chance

 

[MindenMan]

firstly, I would wait until I was sure there is no more fermentation going on, otherwise you making potential bottle bombs. In my experience bottle bombs like to go off when I am near to those bottles. Please be safe and don't rush.

 

[NerdrageIMO]

A gravity of 1.004 suggests that there is still about 1/10 of a lb of sugar in the cider (or about 1.6 oz. Adding 25 g means that there will be about 2.5 oz altogether (25 g = about .9 oz) . By my calculations that is likely to produce about 10 volumes, which is significantly more than Maylar suggested that champagne bottles are designed to withstand...But yer pays yer money and yer takes yer chance

Right!

I wasn't exactly in the right state of mind when I said that.

It's at 16 now. And it's starting to clear up, so I think the yeast is either dead or out of food.

I guess a good rule of thumb is to just wait until it's cleared and settled, rack, then repitch before bottling?

If it's at 0.990 what is a good priming gravity? 1.002?

 

[bernardsmith]

I dunno. Ten points is about 4 oz and 4 oz is a hair over 100 g. If we call 4 L a gallon, and if we say that you are then adding 25 g per L then you will likely create about 12 atmospheres of pressure. How you gonna safely package that?

I think you may be confusing backsweetening (making a wine sweet after stabilization) with priming... Wine ain't beer. Sparkling wine won't have a head... A little residual sugar in the wine before you cork it will produce a sparkling wine.

 

[MindenMan]

I may have missed your point earlier, so let me try again: what is your definition of bubbly? Petillant, (slightly carbonated) or Sparkling?
The BJCP lists 2-3 oz of corn sugar as Petilliant, and 5 oz of corn sugar as Sparkling--this is for a 5 gallon batch of cider. I personally find using a 12 oz can of FAJC in a 5 gallon batch of cider to my liking for carbonation; it seems to add back a slight amount of appley-ness after a couple of months (or more) of aging. Or you find a different flavored concentrate to add for carbonation and interest.
* If you can find a 12 oz can of White Grape Peach Concentrate, you may want to consider it instead. The flavor IMHO, is a perfect compliment to the apples, but it doesn't jump out at you as it is very subtle.** I can't find it in any of my local stores anymore or I would use it all the time for both the priming and flavoring (2 or more cans per batch.)

 

[DagoBrewer]

Would using gelatin work in cider for clearing or is time my best friend for a nice Crystal clear pour? I use gelatin in all my pales and ipas and have commercial quality clear beer. Just wondering if i can help speed up the process! Thanks for any input guys!