Apple Wine & Apple Jack

[CidahMastah]

That is straight from 26 U.S.C 5002(a)(80)(A). Now, it also says
"(8) Distilled spirits
The terms "distilled spirits", "alcoholic spirits", and
"spirits" mean that substance known as ethyl alcohol, ethanol, or
spirits of wine in any form (including all dilutions and mixtures
thereof from whatever source or by whatever process produced)."

Wouldn't that make, making wine at home illegal? No because clearly it is. If you are gonna quote a source, make damn sure the source is credible. I checked several websites and all were the same on the statute.

You misread this IMO. I read this as any distilled spirits from any substance, including wines. The spirits they are refering to is specifically the ethonal (spirits = ethanol). So distilled spirits would be that ethanol wrought from the process of distillation, of any substance. That is my interprestation.

 

[Brew_Master]

The point here isn't legality because some people might consider applejack to be a distilled spirit and some might consider it to be just fortified cider, if you mix a neutral grain spirit with cider to get it to 30%ABV and call it applejack would't it be the same thing as freeze concentrating cider in the eyes of the law?
The real point that affects you directly is if it's safe and based on what I read on http://homedistiller.org/methanol.htm I think it is.

 

[CidahMastah]

The point here isn't legality because some people might consider applejack to be a distilled spirit and some might consider it to be just fortified cider, if you mix a neutral grain spirit with cider to get it to 30%ABV and call it applejack would't it be the same thing as freeze concentrating cider in the eyes of the law?
The real point that affects you directly is if it's safe and based on what I read on http://homedistiller.org/methanol.htm I think it is.

A huge part of this debate was the legality. Now that it is proven, you claim it doesn't matter? That makes little sense to me. According to this statute, freeze distillation/concentration etc., is as illegal as heat distillation.

This statute is defining what a distilled spirit is - see the previous post. Based on this definition, you become a distiller once you concentrate spirits through any method... and down the line.

Your second point is more about proving how the alcohol became concentrated, not about the legality. Those are two separate points.

I put that same link up in my previous posts. As a reader I believe people should read that (in its entirety) and make their own call. You are entitled to your opinion.

 

[CidahMastah]

1. "are you saying distilled moonshine is safer than frozen applejack"

2.

Heat distillation with a still on the other hand is far more dangerous and highly illegal, moonshiners beware

What you guys are saying doesn't make good sense.

1. A properly used heat distillation is absolutely safer than freeze distillation. Why? because you can remove the methanol (which you cannot do in freeze distillation)

2. If you contend that using a heated still creates a dangerous product (to make apple jack), how can you say freeze distillation is not dangerous? By saying using a still could produce an unsafe product you are acknowledging that there is a dangerous aspect to all distillation (which I agree with). The difference being that:

A heated still has the option of separating your runs, and removing potentially harmful fusels and more importantly ethanol. If methanol is safe, why do all comercial distillers remove it (with heat distillation)?

You guys should really read that enitire URL posting from top to bottom, not cherry pick out a few lines here and there that suit your side of the debate.

 

[kc_in_wv]

This has been entertaining but, rather than argue over hearsay and opinions why don't you read all of the information on the government web site concerning distilled spirits. Then make your own opinions and come back and see how you are the same.
Here is the link to the government page designed for the Distilled Spirits industry.

http://www.ttb.gov/spirits/index.shtml

On here you can find lots of subjects of interest. By the way I do not have an opinion because I am not through reading these pages

 

[lovemesomeipa]

If you're really worried about the methanol, why not boil it off? The methanol has a boiling point of 149 F. If you don't catch it, it's not distillation. After fermentation is complete, pour your cider back into the brewpot and heat it slowly while reading the temperature. If you can hold the temp at 150 while slowly stirring, all of the methanol will boil off leaving you with simply what you want. Ethanol doesn't boil until 173, so as long as you keep it below that, you won't lose what you're trying to concentrate. If you can keep the temp around 150 until all of the methanol boils off and then cool it back down to room temp, you would have a great apple jack precursor, completely free of potential blindness.

 

[BoomerCreek]

Most states offer a free distillation license for producing vehicle fuel at home. Just get one of those. I don't see why I couldn't run my truck on fuel made from apples? Maybe this will start an argument about what types of fuel alcohols are best and which are the most dangerous...
I find that well aged brandy makes my truck purr like a kitten.

 

[goaler29]

Most states offer a free distillation license for producing vehicle fuel at home. Just get one of those. I don't see why I couldn't run my truck on fuel made from apples? Maybe this will start an argument about what types of fuel alcohols are best and which are the most dangerous...
I find that well aged brandy makes my truck purr like a kitten.

first off saying a license to make fuel at home is free is like saying a free dog is free! Its not free! here is the link for the PDF for said license.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...3rUIYklG5Seh4gBsA&sig2=EiHgIwUWPx7CcDZSaHqFUQ

Considering what you read and the fact that the FEDS can come in any time to inspect you to make sure you are, in fact making fuel; really isnt worth it. Then there is the money involved making storage, a still that is approved, the safety regulations, and then your ingredients. All that combined leads to a fairly large investment to "make fuel". If you get caught consuming said fuel, you get a free ride to club fed! So if you really want to learn to distill go to homedistiller.org and read the forums. Secondly fractional freeze distillation is as illegal as vapor distillation in EVERY state. Plus fractional freezing does not eliminate the nasties that are created in the fermentation process. Thats why apple jack is almost always super harsh.

 

[BoomerCreek]

I'm not a fuel distiller nor do i care to do anything but instigate in this case. The argument going in this thread is too good to let it go. Have fun!

 

[GinKings]

nor do i care to do anything but instigate....The argument going in this thread is too good to let it go.

The "argument" in this thread is over a year old. I think it's time to let it go.

 

[CidahMastah]

The "argument" in this thread is over a year old. I think it's time to let it go.

+1 total zombie thread

 

[fbangie]

NO..PLEASE DON'T LET IT STOP.....I still have a couple bottles to drink....BBBRRPP....

 

[webfoot]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamaica_ginger

I just got of the phone with an oooooollllllllldd friend of mine that works in a small craft distillery and he says the feds will tag you for anything distilled in any way over about 25% due to the fact that they dont know how you made itand all commercial have some dye in them that is seen under a black light.

Least thats what i was a told.

webby

 

[JsnSnk]

So correct me if I am wrong here. All of those who say it is illegal. I bet none of you have ever intentionally sped even knowing the risk? Rolled a stop light. Anything technically illegal?

I would say it is more about the intent of the law. It is meant to protect the public, keep some sort of safety in the distillation process and collect a significant source of revenue (taxes) from the production and sale of spirits. It is one reason most ABC agents are called Revenuers.

That said production at home would be technically against the law regardless of method used. However if not sold and only consumed at home it is a victimless crime. Not long ago home brewing was also in some states. For the same reason. As a matter of fact none of us can sell our brew.

So where is the harm? I am tempted to try AJ when good fresh juice comes into season. Just to stay safe may try and keep it under 25%.

Peace from a new guy here......

 

[webfoot]

I'm not saying i wont try it I would just be careful who you tell, it may not be a case of legality but if they think you doing something you shouldn’t be there may be heavy court time in you future.

Along that line is there a yeast that would yeild 18-20% in cider?

 

[brewmaster12]

The guys over at Basic Brewing Video/Radio personally contacted the Feds and had it explained to them that the process of freeze concentrating was not illegal in any sense. Take it directly from the source that the TTB clearly stated that freeze concentration is perfectly acceptable and thusly, making applejack is as well in this manner.