Anyone use hot tap water for brewing?

[flyerwire]

i use cold because it runs through a potable hose and charcoal filter that don't like hot water. That being said, i agree with others, pour yourself a glass of hot water, let it cool and taste it. That should give you your answer. If it tastes metallic, dont use it, if it tastes normal, by all means save your time, electricity and/or gas

 

[mmb]

It also depends on how your water reacts to the sympathetic metal anode rod in your water heater. I've taken rods out of both* of my tanks and replaced them with electric anode rods. I've removed the rod from my travel trailer water heater as well. Otherwise it comes with a stinky sulfur smell if it sits full for an extended period of time.

*Two tanks, one as a holding tank on the out side of a geothermal compressor cooling unit and one that is powered for heating water.

 

[Chester]

i use cold because it runs through a potable hose and charcoal filter that don't like hot water. That being said, i agree with others, pour yourself a glass of hot water, let it cool and taste it. That should give you your answer. If it tastes metallic, dont use it, if it tastes normal, by all means save your time, electricity and/or gas

That is pretty much it. Its all going to depend on source water, pipes (age composition), how old your water heater is and how its maintained. I wish people could see all the crap inside their pipes.

I use hot water, it comes out within 10 deg of protein rest temps. The pipes in my house are not too old (1950) but the cold side occasionally runs rusty. the water heater gives it time to settle out I think. Its going to be different for everybody.

 

[mmb]

You have no idea what you're talking about. That much is obvious. By your statement we would all be bathing/washing dishes/feeding our children with thermophilic bacteria. Do you have any idea what a heat resistant/tolerant bacteria strain that can tolerate the temperatures in your water heater feeds on? Or where they are located on this planet? I'll shortcut the google search for ya: sulfur containing compounds and geothermal vents (i.e. hotsprings). Are you by chance pumping your water out of Morning Glory Pool or Old Faithful? Perhaps we've found your "special ingredient", a dilute mixture of hydrogen sulfide, Thermophilic Synechococcus, and a dash of ignorance.

Pot, Kettle.

Bacterial contamination of hot water heaters does occur in some areas. Publications from Colorado Department of Public Health and Environment come back along with many other state government publications. Perhaps it doesn't happen in your area of Cali, but that doesn't preclude it from happening anywhere else.

The bacteria isn't harmful in most cases but does bring a sulfur/rotten egg smell and can also effect the taste of water.

http://www.cdphe.state.co.us/lr/water/IronSulphurBacteria.pdf

http://www.hhs.state.ne.us/enh/IronSulfurBacteria.pdf

http://ohioline.osu.edu/aex-fact/0319.html

Presence of Thermophilic Bacteria in Laundry and Domestic Hot-Water Heaters

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

Pot, Kettle.

Bacterial contamination of hot water heaters does occur in some areas. Publications from Colorado Department of Public Health and Environment come back along with many other state government publications. Perhaps it doesn't happen in your area of Cali, but that doesn't preclude it from happening anywhere else.

The bacteria isn't harmful in most cases but does bring a sulfur/rotten egg smell and can also effect the taste of water.

http://www.cdphe.state.co.us/lr/water/IronSulphurBacteria.pdf

http://www.hhs.state.ne.us/enh/IronSulfurBacteria.pdf

http://ohioline.osu.edu/aex-fact/0319.html

Presence of Thermophilic Bacteria in Laundry and Domestic Hot-Water Heaters

Non harmful bacterial contamination occurs EVERYWHERE. Still doesn't make the water from your hot tank non potable.

 

[mmb]

Non harmful bacterial contamination occurs EVERYWHERE. Still doesn't make the water from your hot tank non potable.

I don't think the issue was if the water was drinkable or not, but rather if it is a good idea to use it for brewing. My response was mostly to correct an erroneous post <removed>.

My water had a sulfur smell from reaction to the magnesium anode rod. Replaced that and things are for the most part fine. I still don't use water from the water heater tank because if it sits for a while (a day or so) it still has a touch of sulfur smell.

 

[buzzkill]

I use hot water,my tank is gas fired. and only two years old. but I have helped friends dig out and replacs the main line from the meter to the house. and seeing how nasty that thing was I think we all would freek out if we knew just how nasty the water lines for any city/town are. but mine works fine for me.

 

[Rushis]

cheezydemon,
I sincerely apologize for the lack of tact and in appropriate candor of my post.

The rest of HBT community,
Thank you for putting me in my place.

@MMB Naturally you are correct I hadn't considered the operating temperature of a typical water heater. Anything below 140 and thermophilic bacteria can survive. Above that temp even bacterial spores are destroyed. I believe that is consistent with the recommendation to increase your water heater temp if you encounter a sulfur smell in your hot water.

 

[khiddy]

I brewed last weekend with a fella who used hot water from the tap to fill his Mash Tun and Hot Liquor Tank. I'd never done that before, based on received wisdom (in cooking, as mentioned before, you always start with cold water). I have a 5 gallon batch from that brew fermenting right now (Fat Man Ale, a Brown Ale/Specialty Christmas brew), and I am looking forward to seeing if I can detect anything off with the brew that might be attributed to using pre-heated water. Being such a dark brew with plenty of hops and roasted flavors, it might be a fool's errand.

In Portland, we have extremely soft water, so there is something to be said for the additional minerals that might be added by using hot-water-tank water for darker brews. For lighter brews, however, or lagers, I'd definitely start with cold water, because there's less room to hide any flaws.

 

[beefeater]

Only way to know if it will work for you and your water heater is to try. Tasting the hot water (chilled) before brewing with it is a good idea, though. Weird taste = weird water.

I used to use hot tap water in my brewing when I only had 2kW of electric heating and a non-insulated kettle. I now have an insulated kettle and 4kW of heat and using pre-heated water only saves me a few minutes so I now start with cold water. Can't say I can notice any difference in the beer.

 

[Mongo64]

Thanks for all the input guys. I think that since my gas water heater is 2-3 years old and the pipes in the house are copper I'm probably gonna give this a try. I'll try out the taste test first though. I may dump a few gallons from the bottom of the tank first to see if any sediment is there.

I remember hearing the guys on the Jamil show say that the state of California did some testing of breweries that use copper equipment and found no excess Cu in the beer. So it appeared that the Cu stayed behind with the yeast or was precipitated during the ferment. I am wondering if the same thing would happen with other elements like Mg from the anode rod. I don't think the water picks up that much Mg anyway. Those things usually last longer than the water tank around here.

 

[scone]

My hot water comes out cloudy, sort of a dense cloud of tiny tiny little particles, that rather quickly settles out but from the bottom up. Anyone know the explanation behind that?

 

[flyerwire]

My hot water comes out cloudy, sort of a dense cloud of tiny tiny little particles, that rather quickly settles out but from the bottom up. Anyone know the explanation behind that?

does it go away and no sediment is left over? If so its just air bubbles, if there is sediment, it is most likely minerals from your hot water heater

better quick explanation :
If the glass of water clears from the bottom upwards it is thousands of air bubbles, if it clears from the top downwards it is some form of solid or sediment in the water

 

[scone]

aha thanks. yeah no sediment, but i was curious about the phenomenon. in other news, the water doesn't taste so good, but then neither does my tap water.

 

[flyerwire]

aha thanks. yeah no sediment, but i was curious about the phenomenon. in other news, the water doesn't taste so good, but then neither does my tap water.

i always run mine through a charcoal filter slowly and it does wonders to remove most of the "taste"

I have my water profile and i've been trying understand all this water mojo but its still somewhat above my head

 

[Scut_Monkey]

Edit: Skipped a page of this thread and didn't notice this article was already posted. Regardless.....

Yeah it's from 1973 but its not a cutting edge debate that bacteria can live in hot water sources. The study showed that hot water tanks commonly have bacterial contamination not shown in the same cold water source. HOWEVER, who really cares. We are talking preboil and these bacteria most likely will be killed during the boil. If they aren't killed they aren't likely to be capable of surving in beer or out competing a healthy yeast pitch in wort.

Furthermore, who cares if we are using bacterial contaminated hot water for bathing etc. We eat, drink and inhale bacteria all day everyday without concern or alarm. These aren't pathogenic bacteria and they are not at extreme levels of contamination.
http://aem.asm.org/cgi/reprint/25/1/72.pdf

Just an article supporting the factoid that we carry more bacterial cells in our bodies than all the "human" cells in our body.
http://www.scientificamerican.com/a...ns-carry-more-bacterial-cells-than-human-ones

 

[HoppyDaze]

And where did the water in your water heater come from? Do you have separate water supply that feeds the water heater?

Radical Concept: multiple plumbing pipes....or are you actually arguing that all water in your house goes through the water heater first?

 

[Rottnme]

I vaguely recall something that I believe is in John Palmers book How To Brew on hot water use being okay for extract and not okay for AG brewing. Something to do with the softening process removing necessary minerals that our friends the yeast need if I remember correctly. I'll try to check when I get home and update....

 

[mmb]

Radical Concept: multiple plumbing pipes....or are you actually arguing that all water in your house goes through the water heater first?

uhhh All the water in my house comes from the same source, regardless of hot or cold... a well.

That's what Rushis was referring to.

 

[HoppyDaze]

well yeah...thats the case for everyone, no?

anyway back to the topic...don't drink the water!!!

 

[Scimmia]

I vaguely recall something that I believe is in John Palmers book How To Brew on hot water use being okay for extract and not okay for AG brewing. Something to do with the softening process removing necessary minerals that our friends the yeast need if I remember correctly. I'll try to check when I get home and update....

Water softening and water heating are two completely different things.

 

[shortyjacobs]

I switched to hot water a while ago and it had no discernible affects on my beer.

Other than the fact that it comes out of my tap at 148 degrees . At the 0.8 degree/secondish heating time on my propane burner, if I blink I miss my strike temp!

 

[Beernip]

Ok, everyone needs to come up to the year 2000 now. Tankless Water-heater FTW!

Been using this for about a year and works great! No tank for your water to sit in and get stale, sediment or to let bacteria grow. Comes out of of the hose at a stead 145*. Connect my hose directly to the unit in my garage and heat the water on demand. Hell I could fill a 55 gallon barrel with 145* water if I wanted without running out.

 

[Scut_Monkey]

Tested my water last night with a hot water sample that was cooled to room temp and a cool water sample warmed to room temp. Both tasted EXACTLY the same. I tried very hard to discern a difference but there was no difference there. So..... I'm going to try using hot water from here on out. Makes more sense obviously when it's already 80 degrees warmer than the cold water.

 

[jmo88]

Ok, everyone needs to come up to the year 2000 now. Tankless Water-heater FTW!

Been using this for about a year and works great! No tank for your water to sit in and get stale, sediment or to let bacteria grow. Comes out of of the hose at a stead 145*. Connect my hose directly to the unit in my garage and heat the water on demand. Hell I could fill a 55 gallon barrel with 145* water if I wanted without running out.

what is this magical device you speak of. I rent so I doubt it will influence me either way, but I'm curious.

Tested my water last night with a hot water sample that was cooled to room temp and a cool water sample warmed to room temp. Both tasted EXACTLY the same. I tried very hard to discern a difference but there was no difference there. So..... I'm going to try using hot water from here on out. Makes more sense obviously when it's already 80 degrees warmer than the cold water.

that's good. I wish my water tasted the same. I wouldn't be bothered by undetectable may-or-may-not-be-present water heater boogeymen

 

[Beernip]

what is this magical device you speak of. I rent so I doubt it will influence me either way, but I'm curious.

If you rent you are most likely out of luck. If you are building or own and already have natural gas it is a good fix.
http://www.rinnai.us/tankless-water-heaters/learn-about-tankless/how-tankless-works/

Mine has a digital display on the front of it that lets me adjust the temp from 98* - 145* in increments. When I wash out my carboys I lower it down to 98* but when I fill buckets, preheat MLT, or pots it is at 145*. I've seen commercial models that will go up to 180*. Imagine if you could fill your MLT from the at 160* and just let it cool down to the mash temp. *drool* No waiting around for the water to heat up.

I've been curious if the same technology could be used to a to help heat the water faster. Like a reverse immersion cooler. Coil some 3/8 copper pipe around the jets of a banjo burner and use a march pump to move it through the system. I imagine you could tune the flame based on a temp probe at the output.

Edit: Crap just looked and may be able to upgrade the controller on my to go up to 160* for only $100. Hello Instant Mash. Come on Santa! I believe in you still.

 

[apologeticus]

As a noob, the only thing I can add to the conversation is this: you can boost your perceived IQ if you refrain from using the term "hot water heater." If the water is already hot, why do you need a heater? Just call it a "water heater" and neurotic people like me can sleep better at night. Thanks!

 

[shortyjacobs]

I've been curious if the same technology could be used to a to help heat the water faster. Like a reverse immersion cooler. Coil some 3/8 copper pipe around the jets of a banjo burner and use a march pump to move it through the system. I imagine you could tune the flame based on a temp probe at the output.

I feel like someone here did this...I feel like it was Yuri? Copper pipe coiled inside of the shell of a corny with a cast iron burner blasting up the center or something...

Edit, my bad, it was FSR402: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/flash-boiler-project-2-a-82839/

 

[Rottnme]

Threadjack...

As an architect I will just say that before buying a tankless water heater do your research. They are not the best solution in all applications and there are better and far more efficient methods available depending on your hot water use demands.

...*******.

 

[cheezydemon3]

Exactly what are you using tap water for post boil?

My tap water (cold) is fine for topping up, no problems.

Wouldn't the boiling process take care of most of that?

....exactly. That's why I said pre boil use of hot water only.