Jako
Well-Known Member
some part of me wants to buy a Firkin. anyone using one? or has everyone gone to kegs for this?
Anyone rocking a Firkin?
- Thread starter Jako
- Start date
Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:
cyberbackpacker
Well-Known Member
I have and use a pin for 5g batches, but I also use cubitainers for 1g dispensing and 10L kegs for half batches. They all have a place in my brewery.
That said, I really do enjoy having my pin. A firkin at ~10 gallons would be a lot for me to get through though...
That said, I really do enjoy having my pin. A firkin at ~10 gallons would be a lot for me to get through though...
rmr9
Well-Known Member
I have a pin as well and I really enjoy it. Dispensing using a cask widge and beer engine so I can stand it on end in my fridge without the traditional stillage. I second what cyberbackpacker said, a 10.8 gallon firkin is a lot to go through on my own even with a cask breather to extend shelf life.
rmr9
Well-Known Member
Ha! Maybe a merkin for the firkin for added temperature control 
OP
OP
Jako
Well-Known Member
I am a rookie to all this. What is a pin.
OP
OP
Jako
Well-Known Member
I'm totally lost. Cap?
OP
OP
Jako
Well-Known Member
Hah! This is too good. Sounds like a retro kink film name.
Some things in life you get to choose, then some things choose you.
OP
OP
Jako
Well-Known Member
Google a cask pin. Is it possible to transfer from a cask to kegs to keep it from going bad? Or is the beauty of it all serving from the cask. Something I would love to experience one day.
madscientist451
Well-Known Member
You can just use a corny keg on its side:
https://beerandbrewing.com/using-a-cornelius-keg-for-cask-ale/
https://beerandbrewing.com/using-a-cornelius-keg-for-cask-ale/
rmr9
Well-Known Member
The beauty of it all is serving from the cask. The smoother feel from the lower carbonation is really great for a lot of beer styles. I enjoy the process from filling, fining and venting. It takes a little more work and there’s a bit more to learn (I am still learning as I go and am by no means an expert) but to me that makes it more worthwhile.
I have a pin cask that I use for parties. It's great fun, because it's different. Also great for adding hops to it or other specialty ingredients. I like serving an Irish Stout from it, also.
Would you share your fining process, please?
Casks come in two sizes - the larger is a firkin, the smaller is a pin. The only difference is size, 10 or 5 gallons.
rmr9
Well-Known Member
For this last batch a picked up a packet of LD Carlson isinglass. It’s one of those small packets that says it’s enough for 6 gallons of wine so I’m hoping it’ll work for beer as well. I can’t see why it wouldn’t. Haven’t tapped the cask yet so I can’t say how well it worked. Will update when I have the results.
OP
OP
Jako
Well-Known Member
Going to check this out. Might give this a run and if i like the results invest in the real deal.
madscientist451
Well-Known Member
If you can get the same results with a used corny that you can get for $35, why not just stop there?
OP
OP
Jako
Well-Known Member
great point, in my head it would only be for looks and to be more authentic. But lately i am looking to expand my own brew process so i can increase volume for less brew days or just to make 10G vs 5G of something i like.
looking into buying a handful of kegs so i can ferment then transfer to empty kegs. more or less turning 2 kegs into a 9G fermenter over the 5G conical i use now.
madscientist451
Well-Known Member
I have a bunch of extra kegs and I've wanted to go to keg fermentation/closed transfers for some time now, but just haven't gotten around to it.
rmr9
Well-Known Member
Bear in mind the shelf life of cask ales especially when not using a cask breather. Even with a keg turned on it’s side you’ll draw in air so you’ll eventually get oxidized or sour beer. If you don’t want to go the real deal breather I’ve seen threads about using propane regulators to bring in CO2 under very low pressure to keep a blanket on top of the beer.
Like I said in my previous post, I enjoy the process. But I will say a corny on it’s side takes up a lot of floor space which is hard to accommodate in many kegerators. While I agree $35 is hard to beat, I got my pin cask brand new for $75 plus shipping which ain’t bad as far as I’m concerned!
Like I said in my previous post, I enjoy the process. But I will say a corny on it’s side takes up a lot of floor space which is hard to accommodate in many kegerators. While I agree $35 is hard to beat, I got my pin cask brand new for $75 plus shipping which ain’t bad as far as I’m concerned!
OP
OP
Jako
Well-Known Member
used kegs in my area sell for 50$.. so something for me to think about for sure.
crazyjake19
Well-Known Member
I'm glad you mentioned that, I feel the same way about casks. I really enjoy the process and the involvement required compared to my "normal" brewing which is somewhat of a finely tuned process for me that I tend to forget to appreciate the subtle nuances sometimes.
The cask process makes you feel a bit more connected to your beers, and it makes you really appreciate traditional cask serving and the role of a cellarman. Plus, it's just too damn cool to tap and serve a cask at a party.
crazyjake19
Well-Known Member
I think the beauty really lies in cask serving. You feel a bit more connected to the whole process, and it really makes you appreciate the history of cask filling and serving. As far as stopping it from going bad too fast, I've seen ways to connect CO2 to the cask at a very low pressure to replace the beer being drawn with CO2 at low enough pressure to not add additional carbonation to the beer.
I use a pin cask myself. I saw a lot of firkins at decent prices but I never brew more than 5 gallons anyway (usually 4.5 gallon batches), so I waited on a good deal for a pin cask. I managed to get one on ebay for $100 (brand new) with a tap, and a few extras. I'd never be able to get through a firkin myself, and probably not even with a small crowd of friends.
Paul Pendyck of UK Brewing Supplies is a great source of supplies and knowledge on casks. It looks like he's out of stock on both used and new pin casks at the moment. I would've bought my pin from him but he was also out of stock when I found mine. I do like to get my cask parts from him.
OP
OP
Jako
Well-Known Member
Awesome information. Are you located in the UK?
I used one ounce of isinglass in my last 3 gallon batch of English IPA. Didn’t do anything special, just added it to the keg after I filled it. Cleared really well.
Does anyone know if isinglass requires cold temps to clarify the beer (like gelatin finings), or can you add them when you fill and prime the keg and hold it at 65F+?
The challenge to cask ale is that it has to be consumed fairly quickly once tapped. Like around 3 days or less. Since casks are either gravity drawn or handpump drawn and air enters the cask. As stated, a firkin is over 10 gallons and a pin is around 5 gallons. I can’t speak for others but I don’t go through that much beer that quickly.
They make CO2 cask breathers that replace the air with low pressure CO2, but as others said, this doesn’t extend the life indefinitely either.
I’ve seen articles where people are switching the internal tubes on their corny kegs - putting the liquid tube on the gas side and the gas tube on the liquid side then laying the keg on its side to make a sort-of cask. If you want to be authentic, you prime in the keg and don’t carbonate with CO2.
You can’t put any CO2 pressure on a cask or a corny keg being used as a cask for dispense, especially if you’re using a handpump. Any pressure at all will force beer through the handpump without even pulling the handle and could possibly damage your hanpump. They have glass cylinders inside.
For this reason, casks or corny kegs being used as casks MUST be vented prior to attaching it to your handpump. Casks are vented by driving soft wood spiles into a hole at the top of the cask, often for days before the cask will be served. You can vent a corny keg by just locking open the gas release. Since air will be drawn into the keg as beer is pumped out, you have to leave the gas vent open to allow the air to replace the beer.
It’s definitely an art when done properly.
You certainly can hook it up to beer engine or hand pump, but there is a cool factor in setting your cask out on its little stand at a party and then pounding the tap in with a mallet and letting everyone come up and serve themselves with the gravity fed tap. It feels authentic and old school for folks and adds fun to the event.
I did put my keg in the kegerator to chill. But I’m not sure if thats really necessary. I don’t think casks are all stored cold in the UK?
I have a couple 3 gallon corny kegs and one 2.5 gallon. Something like this would be more managable. But 3 gallons is still about (30) 12 oz beers or about 24 pints.
I’ve thought about using 5L mini-kegs. The issue with those is there’s no good way to tap one of those without using one of the CO2 taps they make for them - at least that I know of. A 5L mini-keg is a much more managable size, and its even the right shape. If some enterprising individual came up with a good way to use these for cask ale, that would be a great service to the homebrewing community.
I’ve thought about using 5L mini-kegs. The issue with those is there’s no good way to tap one of those without using one of the CO2 taps they make for them - at least that I know of. A 5L mini-keg is a much more managable size, and its even the right shape. If some enterprising individual came up with a good way to use these for cask ale, that would be a great service to the homebrewing community.
rmr9
Well-Known Member
If I were to use a corny keg as a cask I wouldn’t even turn it on it’s side and mess with the innards. This will require either a true to form beer engine or one of the DIY guys that are floating around the forum made with an RV water pump. Basically leave the keg upright, if you prime in the keg I would maybe “vent” for a second or so with the prv. Connect your beer engine or RV pump to your liquid out (you’ll likely have to do a bit of size changes with tubing). Pop a gas in on your gas post and either leave it open while serving or connect that to your cask breather so you avoid a vacuum. Should work eh?
Because of Covid I haven’t had anyone over to share my beer with so a pin full of porter fell to me and my wife to consume and with the cask breather it lasted a good 4 weeks. Granted the beer started to deteriorate by that point but it was by no means bad.
Because of Covid I haven’t had anyone over to share my beer with so a pin full of porter fell to me and my wife to consume and with the cask breather it lasted a good 4 weeks. Granted the beer started to deteriorate by that point but it was by no means bad.
For hooking up a beer engine, I found this article awhile ago - and it took me awhile to figure out how to connect mine. So here it is, I’ll post it here and hopefully save someone else. They use John Guest fittings, which are sold at plumbing places and water dispensing solutions.
http://realaleamerica.com/?page_id=2083
http://realaleamerica.com/?page_id=2083
cyberbackpacker
Well-Known Member
I use an adjustable propane regulator in lieu of a cask breather; it performs the same function but a lot cheaper here in the USA. Additionally, I also use an inline check valve that actually prevents any beer being pushed through the line or handpump if it is over 2psi-- this allows me to increase the pressure to 3-5psi vs 2psi if I know I won't be drinking for a few days.
And at 5 gallons, that is ~33 imperial pints, or roughly a pint a day over a month's time-- which is really a very moderate amount of beer to consume and the beer stays in good nick over that time frame. (I'm the only drinker in my house too)
And at 5 gallons, that is ~33 imperial pints, or roughly a pint a day over a month's time-- which is really a very moderate amount of beer to consume and the beer stays in good nick over that time frame. (I'm the only drinker in my house too)
Last edited:
If you’re using a beer engine you’re right, you wouldn’t have to. Only if you want to lay it down on its side and do gravity dispense. You can’t really do gravity dispense unless you lay the keg down. Gravity dispense means you’re not using any CO2 to push the beer.
The reason for switching the tubes is you want the long tube to sit up high in an air pocket to allow air into the keg as you draw beer out. And yes, you would need to put an open fitting on the gas side to hold it open so the air can get in. I suppose you could also just switch your fittings, like put an open liquid on the liquid side and connect a gas fitting to a picnic tap and draw from the gas side - but that goes against what most people already have set up.
There are 8 US pints in a US gallon, so 5 gallons is 40 pints here, a pint being 16 oz.
The web says an imperial pint is 19.2 oz, so 5 US gallons is about 33 imperial pints.
cyberbackpacker
Well-Known Member
bwbible, good catch. Someone had mentioned a 3 gallon keg a few posts prior, and I had that in my head while doing the math!
:cheers:
I didn't have enough room for a pin in my keezer, so I use a 2.5 gal corny keg on its side as my cask. I swapped the gas and liquid posts, cut an inch off the long (now gas) tube and turned it 180 degrees so it sits against the top side of the keg. I built a small wooden stillage for my keezer and the 2.5 gal keg sits on its side.
In the days when people could come over and drink, I'd leave the 2.5 gal keg open to the air real-ale style. You get the right amount of oxygenation of the beer, but the keg is small enough to get through without the beer spoiling. At the moment, I have it hooked up to a cask breather. I picked up a the breather (and my beer engine) from UK Brewing - 20 Years Of Supplying The Cask Ale Industry
In the days when people could come over and drink, I'd leave the 2.5 gal keg open to the air real-ale style. You get the right amount of oxygenation of the beer, but the keg is small enough to get through without the beer spoiling. At the moment, I have it hooked up to a cask breather. I picked up a the breather (and my beer engine) from UK Brewing - 20 Years Of Supplying The Cask Ale Industry
If you measure beer in gallons and you don’t think 40 gallons is alot of beer - you might be a homebrewer.
