Anyone have a good persimmon melomel recipe?

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Randar

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Ok, so the tasty/fleshy little orange fruits are appearing at cheap prices near me and I am intrigued.

I am curious if anyone has had success with making a persimmon mead and if so would they be willing to share recipe/proportions?

TIA!
 

Ace_Club

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Ok, so the tasty/fleshy little orange fruits are appearing at cheap prices near me and I am intrigued.

I am curious if anyone has had success with making a persimmon mead and if so would they be willing to share recipe/proportions?

TIA!
I believe you misspelled that last bit...should be TnA! :D
 

twohands

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Being from the south, I have eaten wild persimmons my whole life. Until ripe they are UNBELIEVABLY astringent. I'm guessing that you won't have that issue. They also, in the wild, ferment spontaneously, so you might want to account for that and manage the wild yeasties. Are you fermenting the honey first and adding fruit to the secondary? Or are you extracting juice/pulp and adding to the primary? Also to consider - they have a TON of pectin, so just care and pectic enzyme or be prepared for permanent haze.
 

flyweed

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I know there are sweet persimmons and also "astingent" persimmons. Actually I live in Japan for a while, and they grow over 60 different variety there. I know the use the astringent persimmons to make Kabu kaki..a type of fermented juice..it is very "tart" it bites your tongue..this may make a good pairing with a sweet mead..otherwise you'll want to look for some good sweet persimmons. Here is a website that could help you out a bit more if you'd like: http://www.seedtosupper.com/persimmons.html

Hope that helps
 
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Randar

Randar

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Being from the south, I have eaten wild persimmons my whole life. Until ripe they are UNBELIEVABLY astringent. I'm guessing that you won't have that issue. They also, in the wild, ferment spontaneously, so you might want to account for that and manage the wild yeasties. Are you fermenting the honey first and adding fruit to the secondary? Or are you extracting juice/pulp and adding to the primary? Also to consider - they have a TON of pectin, so just care and pectic enzyme or be prepared for permanent haze.
I was planning to make a smush of them for the secondary, but I have no clue, really. I was thinking of making a batch with the honey I have left and then splitting it into a couple smaller batches, so I may try something small like a gallon or so of semi-sweet melomel and turn the rest into a vanilla methyglin.

if I am adding fruit in a smush form to the secondary, I presume I either have to cook it (bad for something high in pectin I would guess) so is the best way to deal sanitizing the fruit to use campden tabs?
 

twohands

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If it were me - I'd ferment the honey to finish in a single batch, then split to add flavors in the secondaries.

Freeze the persimmons, remove the seeds, add UNCOOKED pulp/juice to the batch(es) and wait 2-6 months. This is roughly adapted from The Compleat Meadmaker by Ken Schramm. If you cook the juice it sets the pectin and you get hazy brew IIRC. If you ferment the honey first I don't think you have to campden as the alcohol helps out w/ wild yeasts, but YMMV.
 
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Randar

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Here is a website that could help you out a bit more if you'd like: http://www.seedtosupper.com/persimmons.html

Hope that helps
Thanks for the link. It is interesting that they say all the soft-ripe varieties are technically what they call "astringent". Soft-ripe jelly-like ones are the tastiest but they definitely have to be ripe.
 
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Randar

Randar

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If it were me - I'd ferment the honey to finish in a single batch, then split to add flavors in the secondaries.

Freeze the persimmons, remove the seeds, add UNCOOKED pulp/juice to the batch(es) and wait 2-6 months. This is roughly adapted from The Compleat Meadmaker by Ken Schramm. If you cook the juice it sets the pectin and you get hazy brew IIRC. If you ferment the honey first I don't think you have to campden as the alcohol helps out w/ wild yeasts, but YMMV.

Good advice and I know I had read that. Coming from a homebrewing background I am always worried about infection and folks here don't seem to even mention the word, haha.
 

twohands

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Good advice and I know I had read that. Coming from a homebrewing background I am always worried about infection and folks here don't seem to even mention the word, haha.
I'm both a meadmaker and a brewer - I'd certainly WASH the fruit, but assuming your finished mead (pre-persimmon) is > 9% ABV - that would take some work for a bug to get started, especially considering the pre-freeze. Myabe a wash, freeze, and a quick spray in sanitizer....
 
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Randar

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I'm both a meadmaker and a brewer - I'd certainly WASH the fruit, but assuming your finished mead (pre-persimmon) is > 9% ABV - that would take some work for a bug to get started, especially considering the pre-freeze. Myabe a wash, freeze, and a quick spray in sanitizer....
Well I knew I could talk a brewer into some anal retentive cleaning of somekind. Removing skin (and seeds) would seem to remove external contaminants for the most part.

I'll buy some persimmons tomorrow and clean/freeze them up... Seems like nobody has made one of these around here so I'm as good a guinea pig as anyone!
 

twohands

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Remove the skins but add a few back as you would w/ a pyment or straight wine....my $.02. I think that adds complexity to use a "whole" food as the ferment source. And SOME tannins are definitely melomel-friendly, especially as they age.
 
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Randar

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Remove the skins but add a few back as you would w/ a pyment or straight wine....my $.02. I think that adds complexity to use a "whole" food as the ferment source. And SOME tannins are definitely melomel-friendly, especially as they age.
I like your plan for the skins. Only concern is that persimmons are already very high in tannin on their own. Man, that's a whole different experiment. How many variations have I talked myself up to so far? sheeesh. :D
 

twohands

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I like your plan for the skins. Only concern is that persimmons are already very high in tannin on their own. Man, that's a whole different experiment. How many variations have I talked myself up to so far? sheeesh. :D
Dunno, but it sounds like fun if you primary 5 gallons and split into 1 gallon batches for variations. :rockin: Last post before bed - save back 1+ gallons from the honey primary w/o fruit to blend in if the skins add too much tannin - best of both worlds. Please keep us (me) posted and good luck!:mug:

PS - I have family not too far south of you - Peoria, Bloomington, Oswego, Champagne
 
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Randar

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Dunno, but it sounds like fun if you primary 5 gallons and split into 1 gallon batches for variations. :rockin: Last post before bed - save back 1+ gallons from the honey primary w/o fruit to blend in if the skins add too much tannin - best of both worlds. Please keep us (me) posted and good luck!:mug:

PS - I have family not too far south of you - Peoria, Bloomington, Oswego, Champagne
I will definitely keep you posted, but I must warn you that you have to spell Champaign correctly next time. :tank:

:D
 
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Randar

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Just picked up 8 lbs of Hachiya persimmons for just under 15 bucks.

From the wiki page:

The Japanese cultivar 'Hachiya' is a widely grown cultivar. The fruit has a high tannin content which makes the immature fruit astringent and bitter. The tannin levels are reduced as the fruit matures. Persimmons like 'Hachiya' must be completely ripened before consumption. When ripe, this fruit comprises thick pulpy jelly encased in a waxy thin skinned shell.



Gonna let them jet all soft and ripe before cleaning/skinning them and popping them in a vacuum sealed freezer pouch. Still undecided if I will try with and without skins since this variety is supposedly already high in tannins.
 
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Randar

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Well, I have the medium show mead sitting on the fruit. The below picture shows the 3 1-gallon jugs with the varying amounts of persimmon in them. The first jug had 1.5 lbs, the second and 2.5 lbs, and the third had 3 lbs 2 oz. The persimmons were scooped of their flesh, skins discarded, and each gallon got a dosing of pectic enzyme and yeast nutrient. Gallon jugs were topped off with the show mead.

 
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Randar

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Well, here we are 10 months later and I have to tell you, I am a bit disappointed. I bottled the 3 variants today and they all tasted absurdly tannic, astringent, and nasty (like a wet swimsuit might taste?). Since I only had a gallon or so of each it wasn't a lot of bottling despite the disappointing outcome. I had racked them for aging and clearing and they did just that for about 8 months.

I don't see a perceptible difference in the flavors between the 3 different fruit additions but that is mostly due to the heavy astringent and tannin content of all 3. Keep in mind I stripped the skins so the most tannic part wasn't even in there! The only good part is the orange blossom honey really shows through in the nose, but after that it was all downhill.

Anyways, I will throw them in the corner and let them age for a couple years before cracking another open.
 

Tinpanharry

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Great long-term follow up. When I can search and find this kind of information, it makes all of the difference in the world. :mug:
 

Boilinginsc

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Well, here we are 10 months later and I have to tell you, I am a bit disappointed. I bottled the 3 variants today and they all tasted absurdly tannic, astringent, and nasty (like a wet swimsuit might taste?). Since I only had a gallon or so of each it wasn't a lot of bottling despite the disappointing outcome. I had racked them for aging and clearing and they did just that for about 8 months.

I don't see a perceptible difference in the flavors between the 3 different fruit additions but that is mostly due to the heavy astringent and tannin content of all 3. Keep in mind I stripped the skins so the most tannic part wasn't even in there! The only good part is the orange blossom honey really shows through in the nose, but after that it was all downhill.

Anyways, I will throw them in the corner and let them age for a couple years before cracking another open.
I’m sitting here looking at a pile of persimmons, did you like it after it aged?
 

Boilinginsc

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I froze a bunch in 3lb bags, I’m going to try a one gallon batch. I will add them after the initial fermenting and rack it into a jug with the 3 lbs of persimmons
 
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