Any tricks to bitter an under hopped irish red thats way too sweet

[Wrathchild]

I don't think I have used that Briess Munich (which says it is a 10L version). It should not be a caramel malt, but it will add some malty character that can give an impression of sweetness. The combo of Maris Otter + Munich + Crystal was probably a bit overloaded on the malty malts. I like an Irish Red with about 5% Crystal 60, 2-3% Roasted Barley plus Pale Ale Malt.

Your pre to post gravity drop is quite a bit for a 75 min boil (1.054 to 1.074). You might be boiling too aggressively. That can also contribute to malty and sweet characters.

This article seemed to have a good explanation of BU:GU ratios (Bitterness Units to Gravity Units): BU:GU Ratios If the 25.8 IBUs is correct, then your 0.34 ratio would push this beer a bit out of balance.

I wanted to go big but what I got was bigger then I thought big would be. Im having a problem with my beers being too high abv then what I want. Ive gone down to 9lbs of fresh milled base malt in a 8 gallon full volume biab. The mash I get must be great cause they are never under about 6.5-7% abv. If I want 5% abv should I try 8lbs and keep lowering till I find that gravity?

 

[CascadesBrewer]

If I want 5% abv should I try 8lbs and keep lowering till I find that gravity?

That is one way. The way I would recommend is to use brewing software to help you out. Generally, software will start off with defaults that you can tweak for your system and process (like efficiency, boil off rate, wort loss in the kettle, etc.). Then it will help you with calculating the amount of grain and water needed to hit your target numbers. The more effort you put into measuring your actual values and updating the software's values, the more accurate the predictions will be.

I am sure there are a few threads around with software recommendations. I use BeerSmith, but it can be a bit complex.

If you have an accurate measure of the volume into the fermenter, you can plug in your recipe and numbers from your batch to get your calculated efficiency. Plugging your recipe and 5.0 gals of 1.074 wort into the fermenter, I get an Overall/Brewhouse Efficiency of 76.5%. ABV of 8.8%! I am getting only 19.4 IBUs using 5% alpha acid hops. That is with entering your "1 oz east kent 10 minutes after flame out" as a flameout addition with a 5 minute steep.

 

[LostHopper]

My answer to most beer issues is to brew another batch. Don't dwell on the beer you're not liking.
In this case, brew a red ipa and blend them when serving.
I had a red ipa from New Belgium this weekend and it was good.

 

[Kickass]

I may have missed it so if my question has already been answered, I apologize. Are you using brewing software? If so, use your actual statistics to determine things like efficiency and attenuation to build future batches.
If you’re not using software, start doing so. I use brewers friend for stuff on the fly and @VikeMan ’s excel product when I’m finalizing a recipe. BeerSmith is good but I let my subscription elapse and just haven’t gone back.

 

[cmac62]

I see a couple of options: 1. Mix with another beer, 2 make hop tea and add by the glass, or 3, make a hop or other bittering herb ticture with high proof vodka. I recently made a bitters with wormwood, star anis, and juniper that turned out great, but beware of the wormwood, it is super bitter.

 

[Wrathchild]

I see a couple of options: 1. Mix with another beer, 2 make hop tea and add by the glass, or 3, make a hop or other bittering herb ticture with high proof vodka. I recently made a bitters with wormwood, star anis, and juniper that turned out great, but beware of the wormwood, it is super bitter.

Interesting as hell! Dont know nothing about wormwood. Aint that what they make absinthe out of?

 

[cmac62]

Interesting as hell! Dont know nothing about wormwood. Aint that what they make absinthe out of?

That's the stuff that got it banned everywhere for years. Its one of the primary gruit herbs. So I made the tincture to put in some beer to see if I want to make some more gruit with wormwood.

 

[balrog]

One type of wormwood, yes. Apparently there are several.

 

[OldDogBrewing]

Make a hop tea, reduce it as much as you can so you don't dilute it that much, add it and done.

I have wormwood at home, but I would recommend you the hop tea rather than the wormwood, as it's more natural to a beer and will introduce flavours that will fit better

 

[Wrathchild]

Make a hop tea, reduce it as much as you can so you don't dilute it that much, add it and done.

I have wormwood at home, but I would recommend you the hop tea rather than the wormwood, as it's more natural to a beer and will introduce flavours that will fit better

Is wormwood a bud or flower or something or is it actually wood? I should probably Google it

 

[OldDogBrewing]

Is wormwood a bud or flower or something or is it actually wood? I should probably Google it

It's a pretty ugly plant, even the flowers are ugly hahaha

 

[Wrathchild]

It's a pretty ugly plant, even the flowers are ugly hahaha

I was just looking at it on Google. It looks like leaves off a chrysanthemum flower. Sorta. Is it just flat out bittering or does it have a flavor?

 

[OldDogBrewing]

I was just looking at it on Google. It looks like leaves off a chrysanthemum flower. Sorta. Is it just flat out bittering or does it have a flavor?

It tastes herbal, but it's usually used with more botanicals rather than just wormwood, that's why I don't think it's a good idea to back bitter a beer that way.

 

[Wrathchild]

It tastes herbal, but it's usually used with more botanicals rather than just wormwood, that's why I don't think it's a good idea to back bitter a beer that way.

My issue/problem is that I started brewing with 2 extract kits but it tasted the same with both. I watched videos on all grain and tried that. That being said, I literally shot from the hip with hip additions and grain bills without recipes or calculators cause i wanted to figure it out without "what is recommended". My first 5 brews were all pale ales and ipas with a moderate amount of hops so they turned out pretty ok. The Irish red i tried to make, I didnt want bitter or hoppy so I could taste the malts forward. That I achieved too much! That brew reminds me of eating the most decadent chocolate cake. Way too sweet to the point of turning you off. Not to mention the abv was close to 8.5%. I took advise and started doing the ibu calculations and the bu gu calculations and im about 20 ibus off. Mine came out to about 9 ibus from my calculations and it should have been at least 25-30. Definitely tells me why its so sweet. Im learning and this is exactly how I wanted it to go. Ive also realized I like more bitter piney west coast style ipas and hops. Im drinking a brew I just picked up from union craft out of Baltimore and its called hippie trap. Its bitter and super grapefruit with a sweet melon after thought. I aint hating it but I can only do 2 or 3. The floral bouquet is a little too much. That being said, do brewers use grapefruit extract or artificial flavor of grapefruit to achieve so much grapefruit? I wouldn't think hops alone would make your beer so grape fruity.

 

[OldDogBrewing]

My issue/problem is that I started brewing with 2 extract kits but it tasted the same with both. I watched videos on all grain and tried that. That being said, I literally shot from the hip with hip additions and grain bills without recipes or calculators cause i wanted to figure it out without "what is recommended". My first 5 brews were all pale ales and ipas with a moderate amount of hops so they turned out pretty ok. The Irish red i tried to make, I didnt want bitter or hoppy so I could taste the malts forward. That I achieved too much! That brew reminds me of eating the most decadent chocolate cake. Way too sweet to the point of turning you off. Not to mention the abv was close to 8.5%. I took advise and started doing the ibu calculations and the bu gu calculations and im about 20 ibus off. Mine came out to about 9 ibus from my calculations and it should have been at least 25-30. Definitely tells me why its so sweet. Im learning and this is exactly how I wanted it to go. Ive also realized I like more bitter piney west coast style ipas and hops. Im drinking a brew I just picked up from union craft out of Baltimore and its called hippie trap. Its bitter and super grapefruit with a sweet melon after thought. I aint hating it but I can only do 2 or 3. The floral bouquet is a little too much. That being said, do brewers use grapefruit extract or artificial flavor of grapefruit to achieve so much grapefruit? I wouldn't think hops alone would make your beer so grape fruity.

You can use grapefruit juice, peel or extract or a lot of grapefruit forward hops at different stages

 

[Wrathchild]

You can use grapefruit juice, peel or extract or a lot of grapefruit forward hops at different stages

I'm quickly realizing the amount of diversity there is when making a beer to your own tastes. Another problem im having is my beers always come out higher gravity then I thought they would be. I'd never had thought I'd say I want less alcohol but thats the case. I recently got a grist mill so I crack my grains just before brewing instead of having them shipped cracked and it seems to have made my abv go up. My next brew is gonna be straight up smash beer with 9lbs of pale 2 row and 4oz of vic secret. Ill use 8 gallons full volume biab and see what my gravity will be then. Ive gone as high as 15lbs of grain in a 8 gallon full volume biab and get about 7.5% abv and ive gone as low as 11lbs of grain and the same amount of water and abv was even higher. Maybe im super saturating my wort and wasting money on grains

 

[OldDogBrewing]

I'm quickly realizing the amount of diversity there is when making a beer to your own tastes. Another problem im having is my beers always come out higher gravity then I thought they would be. I'd never had thought I'd say I want less alcohol but thats the case. I recently got a grist mill so I crack my grains just before brewing instead of having them shipped cracked and it seems to have made my abv go up. My next brew is gonna be straight up smash beer with 9lbs of pale 2 row and 4oz of vic secret. Ill use 8 gallons full volume biab and see what my gravity will be then. Ive gone as high as 15lbs of grain in a 8 gallon full volume biab and get about 7.5% abv and ive gone as low as 11lbs of grain and the same amount of water and abv was even higher. Maybe im super saturating my wort and wasting money on grains

What you want to do is calculate your system's efficiency, you can use a calculator, that way you can input tbe recipes into a recipe builder as you find them on the internet, books or your own, then you change the efficiency and it will adjust it to your system so you get the right OG

 

[Wrathchild]

What you want to do is calculate your system's efficiency, you can use a calculator, that way you can input tbe recipes into a recipe builder as you find them on the internet, books or your own, then you change the efficiency and it will adjust it to your system so you get the right OG

The efficiency of my brewing system is whats confusing me. Its very primitive to say the least. I have a 16 gallon kettle that I mash in and boil in. I dont have a wort chiller so after my boil is done I just use 4 clamps to seal the lid on and wait till the next day when its cool enough to siphon to my glass carboy and thats about the extent of my gear. I mash at about 150 and stirred every 15 minutes really well and it seems to be enough. I always get scared when I transfer from the kettle to the carboy because I think im getting too much trub in the carboy but when everything is said and done after fermentation, I have to the least a half gallon of carboy trub up to a gallon. It seems I need about 5.5 gallons in the carboy to get about 2 cases of beer. Sometimes its 42 bottles sometimes its 47 bottles. I also never realized how much fat and proteins grains have in them after the transfer. Sometimes my carboy has about an inch of liquid on top of what looks like a 5 gallon batch of thick smutch. It always settles out though. I also worry about burying my yeast after pitching when it does settle. My brews always tell me thats not the case cause they finish everytime. Might just be beginners worries

 

[OldDogBrewing]

The efficiency of my brewing system is whats confusing me. Its very primitive to say the least. I have a 16 gallon kettle that I mash in and boil in. I dont have a wort chiller so after my boil is done I just use 4 clamps to seal the lid on and wait till the next day when its cool enough to siphon to my glass carboy and thats about the extent of my gear. I mash at about 150 and stirred every 15 minutes really well and it seems to be enough. I always get scared when I transfer from the kettle to the carboy because I think im getting too much trub in the carboy but when everything is said and done after fermentation, I have to the least a half gallon of carboy trub up to a gallon. It seems I need about 5.5 gallons in the carboy to get about 2 cases of beer. Sometimes its 42 bottles sometimes its 47 bottles. I also never realized how much fat and proteins grains have in them after the transfer. Sometimes my carboy has about an inch of liquid on top of what looks like a 5 gallon batch of thick smutch. It always settles out though. I also worry about burying my yeast after pitching when it does settle. My brews always tell me thats not the case cause they finish everytime. Might just be beginners worries

My equipment is pretty similar to yours, in fact mine is way more similar to something you can find in a farm rather than a all in one system and I brew anything on it, from raw ales to amazing NEIPAs. You can get you efficiency anyway, although beware that any change will have an impact, I brew anything in mine as I said, so one day I'm step mashing for max fermentability, the next one a traditional sahti mash and then a double decoction mash, I'll experience changes on efficiency on each method, but I can account for them because I've brewed a lot using each method so I know what to expect. Milling can have a big impact too, any adjustment that you fo for whatever reason will have an impact.
As I said, you need to work out your efficiency on a normal brewday first and do it every time you overshoot your OG or undershoot, that way you'll know whats going on, because you have a reference, let's say you have a 75%, if one day you get 80% then you know that whatever you did different boosted your efficiency by three points. Otherwise you're pretty blind when it comes to your mash, it's like brewing without a thermometer or means to measure your gravity, you can do it but there will be so much out of your control that it will just make things harder

 

[Wrathchild]

My equipment is pretty similar to yours, in fact mine is way more similar to something you can find in a farm rather than a all in one system and I brew anything on it, from raw ales to amazing NEIPAs. You can get you efficiency anyway, although beware that any change will have an impact, I brew anything in mine as I said, so one day I'm step mashing for max fermentability, the next one a traditional sahti mash and then a double decoction mash, I'll experience changes on efficiency on each method, but I can account for them because I've brewed a lot using each method so I know what to expect. Milling can have a big impact too, any adjustment that you fo for whatever reason will have an impact.
As I said, you need to work out your efficiency on a normal brewday first and do it every time you overshoot your OG or undershoot, that way you'll know whats going on, because you have a reference, let's say you have a 75%, if one day you get 80% then you know that whatever you did different boosted your efficiency by three points. Otherwise you're pretty blind when it comes to your mash, it's like brewing without a thermometer or means to measure your gravity, you can do it but there will be so much out of your control that it will just make things harder

I dont understand how you get the efficiency. When I do my priming sugar calculation on the app it tells me apparent attenuation but the concept of brew efficiency, I dont understand

 

[OldDogBrewing]

I dont understand how you get the efficiency. When I do my priming sugar calculation on the app it tells me apparent attenuation but the concept of brew efficiency, I dont understand

You need to search for specific brewhouse efficiency calculators, your app might not have one, but you'll be able to find lots on Google, they will ask for some stuff, if your missing some data, don't worry, just make sure to note it down on the next brew, I recommend you to get the efficiency of a few brewdays so you can have more reliable data

 

[Wrathchild]

You need to search for specific brewhouse efficiency calculators, your app might not have one, but you'll be able to find lots on Google, they will ask for some stuff, if your missing some data, don't worry, just make sure to note it down on the next brew, I recommend you to get the efficiency of a few brewdays so you can have more reliable data

I take extremely detailed notes in a notebook of everything I do on brewday. Thats how I actually went back and calculated IBUs and gu gu ratios on past brews. Ill look more into efficiency. Thanks for all your info I super appreciate it man!

 

[cmac62]

Is wormwood a bud or flower or something or is it actually wood? I should probably Google it

Its an herb, so the leaves and flowers i'd guess.