Any Concrete Guys Out There...Issue With Recent Patio Expansion

[Brewenstein]

^^^ This +100. No one likes to give a recommendation and then have it fall flat. It makes the person that gave the referral look bad too.

 

[IslandLizard]

+100^^^ Let them at least feel your disgruntlement through negative feedback. How does Angie feel about this?

I know it's an uphill battle since they've taken away your main leverage (money). After seeing the other job, I'd probably push that contractor a little harder. The smooth areas are nice so why are the other parts so uneven and patchy? These are professionals, right? Does this look professional?

If you really want to push it, it would be nice to get an expert opinion and file a claim.

 

[oujens]

+100^^^ Let them at least feel your disgruntlement through negative feedback. How does Angie feel about this?

I know it's an uphill battle since they've taken away your main leverage (money). After seeing the other job, I'd probably push that contractor a little harder. The smooth areas are nice so why are the other parts so uneven and patchy? These are professionals, right? Does this look professional?

If you really want to push it, it would be nice to get an expert opinion and file a claim.

I'm using realtor feedback and Angie's list as a place I'll start for leverage. After visiting their job and seeing countless examples, I know this wasn't done right. I'm more concerned that they really believe it was acceptable. We will see what they say. It sucks because having this fixed costs $$$$. It's not that the slab is bad, however they troweled/floated the salt rock in looks like crap. It's really just the last section like they rushed it.

I'm not sure how to get an expert opinion or file a claim. Do I ask a couple contractors to review it? I would think pursuing a claim could be a bigger PIA.

 

[IslandLizard]

Quite a few years ago I was called in to photograph and document a floor in a brand new factory building that started to show cracks after a year. I'm sure they went through some legal hassle but a few months later that floor was replaced, entirely! It was close to half an acre.

On a smaller scale, consumers usually don't have the resources for recourse. Small claims court is the easiest, but IIRC, maxes out around $1000, unless they've caught up with inflation and today's pricing. I've successfully put some leverage on people through that route. $1000 could buy you something 20, even 10 years ago.

Perhaps the city inspector can help? The permit that was issued is a legal paper.

Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer or legal advisor.

 

[CUrchin]

Late to the show here, but that is pretty lousy concrete work. It looks to me like the placed the concrete in parts, and did not consolidate the parts together. In the commercial world they would vibrate the sections together. Might have been a hot day and the mud was setting up quickly, but not an excuse for poor quality/workmanship. My concern would be that it may be more than an aesthetic issue, that there may be cold joints through the slab which does not bode well for longevity. This judgement from an internet picture, mind you, but it sure looks like crap. Concrete is prone to crack, but I think what you have there is regular shrinkage cracking.

You paid for professional job and you got something half baked. If the value their reputation, they should jump through hoops to fix it. And by fix it, I mean replace it. Best of luck.

 

[GHBWNY]

Late to the show here, but that is pretty lousy concrete work. It looks to me like the placed the concrete in parts, and did not consolidate the parts together. In the commercial world they would vibrate the sections together. Might have been a hot day and the mud was setting up quickly, but not an excuse for poor quality/workmanship. My concern would be that it may be more than an aesthetic issue, that there may be cold joints through the slab which does not bode well for longevity. This judgement from an internet picture, mind you, but it sure looks like crap. Concrete is prone to crack, but I think what you have there is regular shrinkage cracking.

You paid for professional job and you got something half baked. If the value their reputation, they should jump through hoops to fix it. And by fix it, I mean replace it. Best of luck.

Couldn't agree more. Key here is, "if" they value their reputation.

I am an independent contractor and have been involved in a substantial amount of flatwork. From the pics, it does appear to be an amateur-ish job (problem areas re-troweled?) Someone on crew didn't know what they were doing. Maybe inexperienced, rushed, covering up a problem, having a bad day, whatever. It can happen in even the best-reviewed companies.

After the fact, OP realizes the job simply wasn't done right. Unfortunately, work was approved and accepted as done correctly at the time of payment. At this point, there are three basic options:

1.) If contractor provided a signed contract which stated the amount, description and cost of the work along with a satisfaction guarantee, of which any of those conditions he violated and he admits to his mistake, he chooses to avoid litigation, comes back and does it over again.

2.) If contract was violated and contractor refuses, it goes to court.

3.) If no contract was provided, OP has little to no legal recourse.

One other caution re: opinions and recommendations of "realtors" when it comes to construction: in my area, people whom I know personally who sell houses for a living generally know very little about construction. Recommendations they do make are based primarily on a personal relationship they might have with a certain contractor, which in some cases they are compensated for. While online reviews are perhaps a place to start, a decision to hire someone should not be made based upon that alone (IMO). Even if OP saw good reviews on his contractor and saw previous work his company had done, it comes down to a matter of contract if there was one. No matter how big or small a job, I provide a contract stating that the customer and I agree on the nature and costs of the job, and we don't proceed until that contract is understood and signed. It's there to protect us BOTH in the event of an issue.

 

[oujens]

Late to the show here, but that is pretty lousy concrete work. It looks to me like the placed the concrete in parts, and did not consolidate the parts together. In the commercial world they would vibrate the sections together. Might have been a hot day and the mud was setting up quickly, but not an excuse for poor quality/workmanship. My concern would be that it may be more than an aesthetic issue, that there may be cold joints through the slab which does not bode well for longevity. This judgement from an internet picture, mind you, but it sure looks like crap. Concrete is prone to crack, but I think what you have there is regular shrinkage cracking.

You paid for professional job and you got something half baked. If the value their reputation, they should jump through hoops to fix it. And by fix it, I mean replace it. Best of luck.

I'll clarify there is no cracking. It was a hot day. All marks seen are from them working the concrete. They claimed the only way to get the salt in the concrete is to trowel/float it (I'm not sure the difference here) and that the marks are just a product of that and provide slip resistance. I've read you press it in when the concrete is not wet enough to leave marks or broadcast it and wash off the next day. Basically I'm screwed because I do not have an elaborate contract. I just have our agreement on the job, materials, when it will be complete, when payment is made. I see where I made an error here, but I felt I did everything I could to screen these people. They were priced right in line with other bids. They got to it quicker because a delay in another project moved their concrete work to another day. I'm thinking about providing them some feedback I've received and potential case review I will make on Angie's List. If anything, I just want my experience shared on that site since they use that for reviews so that people don't make the mistake I did.

 

[GHBWNY]

...Basically I'm screwed because I do not have an elaborate contract. I just have our agreement on the job, materials, when it will be complete, when payment is made.

Correct. No matter what they did and how they did it, without a written (not verbal) contract of how, what, how much, etc., you're not protected from their ineptitude. It's your word against theirs.

I see where I made an error here, but I felt I did everything I could to screen these people. They were priced right in line with other bids. They got to it quicker because a delay in another project moved their concrete work to another day.

You probably did a great job of screening them. But, if they were in a time constraint by squeezing you in between other jobs and having you done by the time the next job was to start, they may not have taken the time and care they would have normally. Just speculating.

I'm thinking about providing them some feedback I've received and potential case review I will make on Angie's List. If anything, I just want my experience shared on that site since they use that for reviews so that people don't make the mistake I did.

That's good of you to do that for the benefit of others, but also remind them to get a WRITTEN contract for the proposed work. If the work is satisfactory when completed and for a reasonable length of time thereafter, it won't be needed. But if they don't fulfill the obligations of the contract, then it's your defense in court. Judges don't make decisions based on hearsay, but they do on hard evidence. If the company isn't willing to provide a contract that meets the customer's satisfaction, then move on.

Same thing if a company isn't willing to provide a Certificate of Liability for the job. Case in point, I hired a company to do a roof for me. I asked for a Certificate of Liability (COL) from the company owner which states that in the event of damage due to their negligence to my person or property, they are adequately insured. The guy said that in 14 years he'd never been asked for one and insisted I not press him for it!! So, I called his insurance company to see if, in fact, he was even insured for doing this 2 1/2 story, complete tear-off, re-sheeting, re-roof. Oh, he was insured alright, but for "general carpentry and occasional roof repair". All this guy does is roofs, 40-50 major residential and commercial roofs a year, and he's pretty high-profile about it. When he found out I'd called the ins. agency, he saw me in a parking lot, got out of his truck, slammed the door, stormed over to me and ripped me a new shirt for "blowing him in" to the insurance company, complaining to me that he likes to "fly under the radar" so his rates won't be as high as the other (honest) roofers are paying, which is expensive. I told him if he couldn't provide me with a COL, I'd find someone else. He did end up providing the COL and I hired him. Toward the end of the job, he admitted it was a good thing to have gotten the COL. It's both your right and obligation to protect yourself and your property to have a COL from a contractor.

 

[Sailingeric]

I would get a couple professionals to look at it and give you a written assessment, use that against your guy and if that does not work, contact a lawyer, often times it takes a nasty letter to get them make good. If it looks bad and will not hold up, it will cost you a lot more to make it right when you go to sell the home, either in repairs or people passing up on the home than paying a couple hundred bucks to a lawyer.