Any advice?

[bad_mojo]

First let me state that I am new to home brewing and cider making. My first attempt at home brewing ended in a sticky mess down my kitchen cabinet and all over my floor. The nice part is the house smelt great IMO.

Fast forward almost 1 year. Yesterday, I started fermenting my first 2 batches of hard cider. I used 2 1-gallon jugs of 365 Organic Apple Juice. I added 1/2 pectic enzyme to each and let it rest for 2 hours. Next, I aerated the crap out of the each container and split a package of Safale S-04 between them. I also added 1.5+ tsp of yeast nutrient to each jug. Finally capping with an airlock. OG was 1.056. Fermenting @ 62.6f(17c) within 18 hours I started seeing activity in the airlock.

My plan
Let one batch ferment out completely with nothing added. Trying to get a baseline.
The other batch I was going to back sweeten with one can of frozen juice concentrate prior to bottling then cold crashing after a couple days once PET bottles are tight. I know that this could cause bottle bombs but as long as I refrigerate should I need to worry?
My plan is to leave them in the fermenter about 3 weeks. I will monitor SG at that time and will let them continue as needed. Is it realistic to expect these drinkable by Christmas? I was hoping to share with friends.

Any and all advice welcome

Cheers

 

[Brulosopher]

Sounds pretty similar how I make cider, though I keg and force carb mine. 1 can of concentrate for 1 gallon will produce a pretty damn sweet cider, though it may be good for blending with the dry cider. If your FG is stable (at 1.000, it ought to be), you shouldn't have to worry about bottle bombs, especially if using PET. Have you considered dry hopping a cider? It is the only way to go for me these days

 

[Maylar]

Your plan is good, though I'd drop that concentrate down to half. I'm not sure what that yeast does for carbonating but with Nottingham it's slow and Christmas would be iffy. Temperature matters, so do the bottle conditioning in a warmer environment for quickest response.

 

[bernardsmith]

I don't usually use beer yeast to ferment cider. 71B - a wine yeast really goes for the malic in the apple juice and helps round off what might otherwise be sharp edges.
If you are simply fermenting apple juice with no added sugar then I would think three weeks fermenting would be enough to produce a fairly drinkable cider although another three months would improve the flavors and another 9 months would bring the cider into a different league...
That said, you may want to taste the cider before you bottle. I don't know anything about the juice you are fermenting but typical apple juice is made to be drunk unfermented and cider is better with rather more acidity and tannins than commercially sold juice. In fact "cider apples" are all but uneatable because of their acidity and tannin levels. But obviously (it may not be so obvious) you can increase the acidity and tannins before bottling by adding acid blend ( a mix of tartaric, malic and citric acids) and by adding grape or chestnut tannins. You can also add oak chips for a week or so after the active fermentation has slowed or ceased and that also adds tannins and vanilla notes

 

[bad_mojo]

Thanks for all the great advice. The only big difference that I noticed with the juice is its unfiltered. I picked it up at Whole Foods, mainly for the glass carboys. Im not too worried about having clear cider right out of the gate. First I am focusing on flavors.

Batch #1 - Still gonna ferment still and bottle to get baseline. Would it be better to leave in primary longer or to bottle condition?

Batch #2 - So my guess at 1 can of FAJC sounds way off considering I'm not a huge fan of overly sweet cider. I think I may just scrap the back sweetening idea for now and just try to carbonate one batch. Else, I could do 2 birds with one stone.
How about this? - I am going to add half a can of FAJC, bottle (PET) and then place them in my fermenter @ 70, checking the bottles every so often to avoid bottle bombs then cold crash in fridge. I'm just hoping the yeast falls asleep and doesnt ferment anymore at fridge temps.

Loved the idea about dry hopping. With them fermenting in 1 gallon carboys what type of hops would you recommend and what kind? Pellets? I don't have any familiarity with types of hops.

I didn't even think about adding an acid blend. I do tend to lean towards tarter ciders like granny smith blends. Tannins I'm not really familiar with. Time to google that one. I do know that I am not a fan of Magners. It reminds me of cider gone bad, almost a rancidy flavor. Hell, I may need to try one soon just to refresh my memory why I'm not a fan.

You guys have giving me some great directions to try. Sounds like I maybe sticking with 1 gallon batches for a little while to experiment.

I noticed Bernard mention about storing for some time. Living in Florida I don't have a great place to cellar any of my creations. Would they be fine sitting at room temp 75ish or should I come up with a better option? I figure if do anything sparkling the yeast will eat all available extra sugars till dry and possibly form bottle bombs.

Thanks again

 

[Brulosopher]

Loved the idea about dry hopping. With them fermenting in 1 gallon carboys what type of hops would you recommend and what kind? Pellets? I don't have any familiarity with types of hops.

First off, ale yeast works great for ciders like this, it's part of what allows you turn it around so quickly! For a 1 gallon batch, I'd recommend dry hopping .5 to .75 oz of your favorite rad American hop-- I've used/tasted Galaxy, Amarillo, and CTZ in cider, they all were badass. I've got a batch going right now that I plan to dry hop tonight, I'm thinking Nelson Sauvin and maybe some Simcoe or Amarillo. Mmm.

 

[bad_mojo]

In my one of my next batches I'm gonna definitely try dry hoping. I think for these first 2 batches I'm gonna work on getting the sweetness level dialed in. I have also decided to pass on carbonating it. I was thinking of cold crashing right after I back sweetening since I wasn't planning on adding campden tabs and k-sorb. Should this work? Or would I greatly benefit from bottle conditioning for a couple weeks prior to chilling? Just concerned that the yeast will fire back up and make a mess.

Thanks

 

[MarkKF]

It doesn't matter whether u carb or not. If u back sweeten or bottle before completely dry u need to do something to avoid bottle bombs. Pasteurize, chemicals or cold storage.

 

[aviator01]

If you want to clear the cider use gelatin. Whatever you do don't add bentonite. Tried bentonite to clarify a 5 gallon batch of cider and I think I might have ruined it.

The cider where I used gelatin was mostly clear in 2-3 days.

 

[bad_mojo]

Turns out I didn't know the proper definition of cold crashing. I thought it included cold storage as well. My plan was to ferment till still, back sweeten, bottle, immediately refrigerate, bottle condition and finally drink. I did't realize cold crashing is short term refrigerating to clear. Since I started out with unfiltered juice I'm not expecting the final product to be clear. I wasn't planning on using any clearing agent. Thanks for the warning for bentonite.

Will bottle conditioning occur if I refrigerating immediately? At what temps is it best to bottle condition? Google answered my question.

Looks like back sweetening with FJAC without stabilizing is a recipe for disaster. I see a trip to LHBS for a few additives. My goal is to dial in sweetness level without using artificial sweeteners or creating bottle bombs.

 

[MarkKF]

It will not bottle condition aka carbonate if cold. Gotta be in the 60's maybe in 50's over a longer period.

Just cuz u start with brown unfiltered fresh pressed juice does not mean u can't have crystal clear cider.

 

[Maylar]

Turns out I didn't know the proper definition of cold crashing. I thought it included cold storage as well. My plan was to ferment till still, back sweeten, bottle, immediately refrigerate, bottle condition and finally drink. I did't realize cold crashing is short term refrigerating to clear. Since I started out with unfiltered juice I'm not expecting the final product to be clear. I wasn't planning on using any clearing agent. Thanks for the warning for bentonite.

Refrigeration slows the yeast to a crawl. People cold crash to halt fermentation and allow the cider to clear. But it can also be used on finished cider to prevent bottle bombs when conditioning is completed. When I make 1 gallon batches I get 8-9 bottles which easily fit in my fridge. Never had a bottle bomb in the fridge.

Will bottle conditioning occur if I refrigerating immediately? At what temps is it best to bottle condition? Google answered my question.

Looks like back sweetening with FJAC without stabilizing is a recipe for disaster. I see a trip to LHBS for a few additives. My goal is to dial in sweetness level without using artificial sweeteners or creating bottle bombs.

If you add chemicals like sorbate you won't be able to bottle condition.

You can back sweeten and prime with FAJC if you either refrigerate or pasteurize when carbonation is finished to your liking. Whatever sugar is not converted by the yeast will provide the sweetness. It takes practice to find that balance.

Bottle carbing can be a very slow process. Room temp works for me.