Another stupid ph question

[Bobby_M]

If you're using RO, you really don't need a water test.

 

[IslandLizard]

If you're using RO, you really don't need a water test.

That! ^

Besides, a water test is merely a snapshot of your (well) water. Depending on its source(s) it could fluctuate quite a bit with the seasons and such.

Also, if you decide to get any water tested, don't order a "kit!" All they do is send you an empty bottle for the extra bucks you pay...
Instead, you can directly send Ward Labs a (small) bottle with your water to be tested. Directions are on their site.

 

[B-Rad13]

If you're using RO, you really don't need a water test.

That's what I was thinking. I used to have a reef tank (saltwater aquarium) and what we used for that was RODI which is reverse osmosis deonaized water to make saltwater and that was basically zero tds. But just RO I guess still has things in it. So by everything that I have read when you add grains it's supposed to lower your ph. But again on my last batch I started with 5.2 and after mashing in it was over 6. On another batch I kept adding lactic acid to lower ph and my beer ended up coming out sour. So I am kinda stumped

 

[B-Rad13]

That! ^

Besides, a water test is merely a snapshot of your (well) water. Depending on its source(s) it could fluctuate quite a bit with the seasons and such.

Also, if you decide to get any water tested, don't order a "kit!" All they do is send you an empty bottle for the extra bucks you pay...
Instead, you can directly send Ward Labs a (small) bottle with your water to be tested. Directions are on their site.

Oh thanks

 

[Bobby_M]

That's what I was thinking. I used to have a reef tank (saltwater aquarium) and what we used for that was RODI which is reverse osmosis deonaized water to make saltwater and that was basically zero tds. But just RO I guess still has things in it. So by everything that I have read when you add grains it's supposed to lower your ph. But again on my last batch I started with 5.2 and after mashing in it was over 6. On another batch I kept adding lactic acid to lower ph and my beer ended up coming out sour. So I am kinda stumped

You CAN use the DI stage if you want to but RO alone gets your TDS down in single digits such that you can just assume it's all zeros.

The color of the grain makeup influences where you mash pH will end up. That's why the beer colors drive different "rules" in my video above. Screenshot below. Notice that only the darkest beers (made with dark malts) land in a pH that doesn't require exogenous acids.

IMPORTANT: IT doesn't matter what your water pH is before the grain is added. Don't measure it.

You probably added too much lactic acid because you were expecting it to change too quickly or maybe your meter is not accurate or calibrated carefully. Aside from that, I agree that 6.0pH is too high.

 

[doug293cz]

IMPORTANT: IT doesn't matter what your water pH is before the grain is added. Don't measure it.

This can't be repeated often enough: It doesn't matter what your water pH is before the grain is added. Don't measure it.

It's all about the alkalinity of the starting water, as that plus the grain bill, and any acid or base additions, is what controls the pH of the mash.

Brew on

 

[Knightshade]

So...another pH related question. How long does it, or should it take for you to get an accurate reading?

I've recently thrown away my pH meter in frustration because it was inconsistent with how long it took regardless of the various temperatures I attempted readings at.

This most recent experience gave me a different reading immediately after calibration, even after replacing with a brand new probe. (Kegland pH meter for reference). As in, I replaced the probe, calibrated in 4 solution, rinsed it off with RO water, then turned it off. Turned it back on, placed it back into a small sample of fresh 4 solution and it settled at 4.8 after a minute or so.

 

[jerrylotto]

This most recent experience gave me a different reading immediately after calibration, even after replacing with a brand new probe. (Kegland pH meter for reference). As in, I replaced the probe, calibrated in 4 solution, rinsed it off with RO water, then turned it off. Turned it back on, placed it back into a small sample of fresh 4 solution and it settled at 4.8 after a minute or so.

How do you store your probes? If you let them dry out or store them in plain water, it's going to affect their accuracy over time. There are probe stabilizing solutions meant for storage. The probes for my Apera meter have slip-on covers that I fill with 4M KCl stabilizing solution and I've never had a problem.

 

[MaxStout]

It usually takes around 15-20 minutes for the mash pH to stabilize. By that time, it's probably too late to make any corrections, as the conversion is mostly done at that point. But measuring pH is useful to determine if your calculations were on the right track.

I use Bru n' Water and have found that the measured, room temp pH is within about .05 of the predicted. Good enough for me.

 

[jerrylotto]

It usually takes around 15-20 minutes for the mash pH to stabilize. By that time, it's probably too late to make any corrections, as the conversion is mostly done at that point

Not if you step mash or do a ferulic acid rest.

 

[Antbeer]

So...another pH related question. How long does it, or should it take for you to get an accurate reading?

I've recently thrown away my pH meter in frustration because it was inconsistent with how long it took regardless of the various temperatures I attempted readings at.

This most recent experience gave me a different reading immediately after calibration, even after replacing with a brand new probe. (Kegland pH meter for reference). As in, I replaced the probe, calibrated in 4 solution, rinsed it off with RO water, then turned it off. Turned it back on, placed it back into a small sample of fresh 4 solution and it settled at 4.8 after a minute or so.

I also had trouble with the ph meter inconsistency. I’ve changed to ph paper which measures between 4.6 and 6.2.
Easy to take readings but not as clear as a clean number on a display. Would like to learn more about calibration of ph meters..

 

[jerrylotto]

Would like to learn more about calibration of ph meters..

I typically do a two-point calibration at pH 4 and 7 standards.

 

[Antbeer]

I typically do a two-point calibration at pH 4 and 7 standards.

Thanks
Do you keep the calibration button down until the display flashes or until the reset calibration value is steady?
I’ve got one of these ph meters

 

[mashdar]

My pH meter typically takes 3-8 seconds, if I had to guess. I think it's a Milwaukee "ph55 pro" - it was what the LHBS had on the shelf.
https://milwaukeeinstruments.com/mi...emperature-tester-with-atc-replaceable-probe/

I've had it a few years now, and whenever I calibrate it, it's pretty much still calibrated with the original tip. I store it in a buffer in the rubber tip. I replace the buffer every 3-6mo.

 

[jerrylotto]

Thanks
Do you keep the calibration button down until the display flashes or until the reset calibration value is steady?

I know nothing of calibration buttons or flashes of displays.

 

[B-Rad13]

I bought a meter from hydroponics shop and haven't had an issue since. I used to have problems like every one else until this one. Works like a champ I think it was under 50 bucks

 

[Antbeer]

My pH meter typically takes 3-8 seconds, if I had to guess. I think it's a Milwaukee "ph55 pro" - it was what the LHBS had on the shelf.
https://milwaukeeinstruments.com/mi...emperature-tester-with-atc-replaceable-probe/

I've had it a few years now, and whenever I calibrate it, it's pretty much still calibrated with the original tip. I store it in a buffer in the rubber tip. I replace the buffer every 3-6mo.

Thank you.
That is a helpful video on YouTube

 

[Antbeer]

I bought a meter from hydroponics shop and haven't had an issue since. I used to have problems like every one else until this one. Works like a champ I think it was under 50 bucks

Thank you

 

[Bassman2003]

So...another pH related question. How long does it, or should it take for you to get an accurate reading?

I've recently thrown away my pH meter in frustration because it was inconsistent with how long it took regardless of the various temperatures I attempted readings at.

This most recent experience gave me a different reading immediately after calibration, even after replacing with a brand new probe. (Kegland pH meter for reference). As in, I replaced the probe, calibrated in 4 solution, rinsed it off with RO water, then turned it off. Turned it back on, placed it back into a small sample of fresh 4 solution and it settled at 4.8 after a minute or so.

Sounds like the meter was not functioning correctly. These instruments can be fickle. Keep the probes wet in storage solution and only calibrate with 'in spec' calibration solution. If a reading takes more than a little while to stabilize the probe is probably wearing out or dirty.

 

[Knightshade]

How do you store your probes? If you let them dry out or store them in plain water, it's going to affect their accuracy over time. There are probe stabilizing solutions meant for storage. The probes for my Apera meter have slip-on covers that I fill with 4M KCl stabilizing solution and I've never had a problem.

Yep..it was sitting in a storage solution.