Another Mash tun Size question?

[Zrab11]

Ok so I have obviously looked at this chart http://https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/how-big-your-mash-tun-needs-123585/

And have come to the conclusion that is if I would want to make a 10 gallon batch of "Barleywine" I would need to have a 52 Quart cooler as a 40 quart would not cut it. AM i correct in that statement??

If so. Here is another question.

Me and my 2 buddies are rounding up equipment for our first all grain batch in a week or two. Eventually I know we will do 10 gallon batches and eventually we will do "Big beer" 10 gallon batches. But I want to get the all grain process down a few times before I move onto 10 gallons. So I expect our first few batches to only be 5 gallon low gravity beers and then we will prob move to 10 gallon low gravity beers and then do a 5 gallon High gravity beer and then eventually we will move to 10 gallon High gravity beers.

So after saying that. Will it hurt my efficiency to use a 52 Quart mash tun if I am only doing a 5 gallon Pale ale?

Would the head space or weight of my grain bed be a factor that would negatively effect my beer?

If I forsee myself moving to 10 gallon " Big Beer" batches in the next year should I get a 52 Quart or bigger cooler?

Or since I will just be doing 5 gallon or 10 gallon Low gravity beers I should stick with a 40 quart cooler?

Now after I have got that answered. How big do they make round coolers? I have heard reports that square coolers can have air pockets in the corners that effect the mash temp? Is this true? should i only use a round cooler or are square ones fine.

And last but not least I plan to batch sparge. Is a simple stainless steel braid going to work for my application or should i use or make something different like a manifold or false bottom?

Thanks So much for your help. Can't wait to start brewing all grain soon.

 

[Vaevictus]

a 40 qt tun is theoretically maxxed at 1.070 at 80% efficiency and 10 gallons.
a 52 qt tun is maxxed at 1.092. I doubt either of those would work for most barleywine recipes. It depends on your recipe.

You can always mash twice, then your 40qt would get you to 1.140 at 10 gallons.
Of course, if you only wanted to make 5 gallons, you'd be at 1.140 already with your 40qt.

For a spreadsheet version of the big tun size chart, I made this yesterday:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AmGsOePpypKmdFRVR1J5YzBQUXM3Nk5ncE96eUtxQVE#gid=0

I'd recommend finding a recipe you want, and figuring out what to do about tunnage when you know how many pounds of grain you'll be putting in.


As for your other questions, i got many brews out of my 28qt tun... it was rectangular with a SS braid, and was never dropped more than a degree over the course of an hour. Sure, it was "too small" ... but it'd max out at 17.5 pounds of grain, for 1.098 top end at 80% efficiency, when i almost always exceeded.

What tun to get really depends on how many massive brews are you going to do, versus how many total brews are you going to do. Like i said, you can always reduce your batch size or double mash, if you're being limited by your tun.

 

[Zrab11]

a 40 qt tun is theoretically maxxed at 1.070 at 80% efficiency and 10 gallons.
a 52 qt tun is maxxed at 1.092. I doubt either of those would work for most barleywine recipes. It depends on your recipe.

You can always mash twice, then your 40qt would get you to 1.140 at 10 gallons.
Of course, if you only wanted to make 5 gallons, you'd be at 1.140 already with your 40qt.

For a spreadsheet version of the big tun size chart, I made this yesterday:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AmGsOePpypKmdFRVR1J5YzBQUXM3Nk5ncE96eUtxQVE#gid=0

I'd recommend finding a recipe you want, and figuring out what to do about tunnage when you know how many pounds of grain you'll be putting in.


As for your other questions, i got many brews out of my 28qt tun... it was rectangular with a SS braid, and was never dropped more than a degree over the course of an hour. Sure, it was "too small" ... but it'd max out at 17.5 pounds of grain, for 1.098 top end at 80% efficiency, when i almost always exceeded.

What tun to get really depends on how many massive brews are you going to do, versus how many total brews are you going to do. Like i said, you can always reduce your batch size or double mash, if you're being limited by your tun.

Wow nice chart. I will save this to refer to often.

I guess its hard to guess what recipe we are doing as we haven't chosen one yet. We are just in the process of building our mash tun.

I was asking these questions and to try eliminate making a mash tun twice. I was hoping I could get one that fit my needs for right now and the Future.

Right now I see us doing 5 and 10 gallon batches of lower gravity beers. Then once in awhile I see us doing a stout or barleywine. But prob not more than 2 or 3 times a year.

So do you think with that info that even a 52quart cooler would be too small to grow into?

I never thought about mashing twice in a smaller cooler. Does that add an extra hr to your brew day. ? I will have to read up more on that.

 

[jflongo]

I currently use a 50 quart coleman extreme cooler, and did a 11 gallon batch of a 1.040 beer. I used a little over 17 lbs of grain. I had plenty of room for Mash in. The problem is when i'm batch sparging, the recipe uses 10.28 gallons of water, so I'm force to do two batch sparges due to the size of my cooler.

Also, my Chocolate Oatmeal Stout calls for 33.75lbs of grain, so I'm forced to drop my ratio from 1:1.25 down to 1:1.1, so that it fits. And this would also need 2 batch sparges.

Because of this, I am probably going to upgrade my 50 quart coleman extreme to a 70 quart coleman extreme cooler, to support the bigger beer, and single batch sparges. I wish I would have just did the 70 in the first place instead of the 50.

So if you know you will be doing 10/11 gallon batches, I would just go straight to the 70 quart coleman extreme.

Now back to your other question on how large they make round coolers, I'm not sure. But I can guarantee a 70 quart coleman extreme would be a ton cheaper than if you a round taller version.

 

[Vaevictus]

Mashing twice would potentially add even more than an hour and needs special consideration as to planning: do you drain into your brew kettle? if so, how are you heating the strike/sparge water for your second mash?

Another consideration is gear in general: would two 40qt tuns suit you better than a 100qt tun? you can always mash in two vessels simultaneously... whether it's two mashes for one beer or two mashes for two beers: would you and your buddies like to do two side-by-side 5 gallon batches at the same time?

Same time brew day, two beers!

 

[Vaevictus]

coleman extreme

... is a good cooler. very good.

Any cooler that claims "Ice for 5+ days" is good enough for a tun.

 

[jflongo]

Mashing twice would potentially add even more than an hour and needs special consideration as to planning: do you drain into your brew kettle? if so, how are you heating the strike/sparge water for your second mash?

Another consideration is gear in general: would two 40qt tuns suit you better than a 100qt tun? you can always mash in two vessels simultaneously... whether it's two mashes for one beer or two mashes for two beers: would you and your buddies like to do two side-by-side 5 gallon batches at the same time?

Same time brew day, two beers!

If the question is for me, I heat my sparge water in my Keggle. So if I need a total of 10 gallons for 2 batch sparges, then I'll go ahead and heat up the whole amount, use part of it for the first batch sparge, then the rest for the second, and I just leave my burner on very low, to keep it at that heat.

Yes I vorlauf after my 60 minute mash 3 or 4 times, then drain it. Add in batch sparge water, re-stir it well, let it sit for 10 - 15 minutes. Then vourlauf 3 - 4 times, and drain completely, then do a 2nd batch sparge, vourlauf, and drain.

 

[Zrab11]

I currently use a 50 quart coleman extreme cooler, and did a 11 gallon batch of a 1.040 beer. I used a little over 17 lbs of grain. I had plenty of room for Mash in. The problem is when i'm batch sparging, the recipe uses 10.28 gallons of water, so I'm force to do two batch sparges due to the size of my cooler.

Also, my Chocolate Oatmeal Stout calls for 33.75lbs of grain, so I'm forced to drop my ratio from 1:1.25 down to 1:1.1, so that it fits. And this would also need 2 batch sparges.

Because of this, I am probably going to upgrade my 50 quart coleman extreme to a 70 quart coleman extreme cooler, to support the bigger beer, and single batch sparges. I wish I would have just did the 70 in the first place instead of the 50.

So if you know you will be doing 10/11 gallon batches, I would just go straight to the 70 quart coleman extreme.

Now back to your other question on how large they make round coolers, I'm not sure. But I can guarantee a 70 quart coleman extreme would be a ton cheaper than if you a round taller version.

Not sure if you or someone else can chime in on this but if I do the 70qt Mash tun right out of the gate and do a few low gravity 5 gallon batches in that cooler do u think the extra head space would hurt keeping steady temp?

Also with your 50 quart do you use a SS braid or a cpvc or copper manifold on yours?

 

[jflongo]

Not sure if you or someone else can chime in on this but if I do the 70qt Mash tun right out of the gate and do a few low gravity 5 gallon batches in that cooler do u think the extra head space would hurt keeping steady temp?

Also with your 50 quart do you use a SS braid or a cpvc or copper manifold on yours?

I have done a good amount of 5 - 6 gallon batches in my 50 quart, and it has held temp fantastic, I would think the 70 quart would as well even for that.

I personally use SS Braided Hose, with a T on the inside.

 

[Vaevictus]

Not sure if you or someone else can chime in on this but if I do the 70qt Mash tun right out of the gate and do a few low gravity 5 gallon batches in that cooler do u think the extra head space would hurt keeping steady temp?

Also with your 50 quart do you use a SS braid or a cpvc or copper manifold on yours?

The headspace shouldn't hurt you with /retention/ as much as you'll have to heat the air in that headspace initially... calibrating your strike temp to compensate for that headspace at varying batch sizes could be tricky.

 

[jflongo]

The headspace shouldn't hurt you with /retention/ as much as you'll have to heat the air in that headspace initially... calibrating your strike temp to compensate for that headspace at varying batch sizes could be tricky.

Myself, I always add about a gallon or more of water, that is a little hotter than my starting water strike temp, then close the lid of my MT for a couple of minutes to pre-heat the inside. So let's say I want to mash at 152, my strike water is 168 before adding grains, I will add a gallon or so of water that is around 170 or a little higher to pre-heat the inside.

 

[Vaevictus]

Myself, I always add about a gallon or more of water, that is a little hotter than my starting water strike temp, then close the lid of my MT for a couple of minutes to pre-heat the inside. So let's say I want to mash at 152, my strike water is 168 before adding grains, I will add a gallon or so of water that is around 170 or a little higher to pre-heat the inside.

Yeah. That's one way. I just upped my strike water temp so it'd be correct after including heating the tun.

 

[GrogNerd]

I have the 70 quart and spread a layer of aluminum foil over the grain bed and have no problems keeping temps over the length of the mash

i preheat the tun and drain that water back into the kettle. there's a little that won't drain out (deadspace), but since it's accounted for in that preheat, I don't have to add it or account for it in my strike water.