Another keggle rust thread.

[tasq]

Hi Gang,

Need some help here.

I recently had a buddy weld some couplings on my keggles. He used stainless wire, back gassed, and used 100% Argon. They are welded from the outside only.

I have scrubbed the welds 3 times, with barkeepers friend paste and a green scrubbie pad. Each time the rust returns.

Is it possible the metal just needs more time to passivate, or are these going to be a lost cause?

Any input will be greatly appreciated.

 

[lincoln]

He used stainless wire,

this tells me it was mig and not tig, it also looks like mig (not the best but can ve made to work) the inside don not look like it was purged. the last photo on the right looks like a cold start.

to fix it i would grind the dark stuff from the inside, and try to passivate with bkf or if you have a plating house around you they will have nitric acid...

 

[tasq]

this tells me it was mig and not tig, it also looks like mig (not the best but can ve made to work) the inside don not look like it was purged. the last photo on the right looks like a cold start.

to fix it i would grind the dark stuff from the inside, and try to passivate with bkf or if you have a plating house around you they will have nitric acid...

Many thanks for your reply! I'll try your suggestions and post back if I am still having issues.

 

[stinkiestbink]

In my TIG welding days, a STAINLESS wire brush was the best to clean up the welds while they were still hot. Definitely stay away from a carbon wire brush. That will cause rust.

 

[tasq]

In my TIG welding days, a STAINLESS wire brush was the best to clean up the welds while they were still hot. Definitely stay away from a carbon wire brush. That will cause rust.

The guy who welded these for me is coming over tonight with a new stainless wire wheel. We are gonna hook it up to an air drill and go to town on them. I then plan to clean well with barkeepers friend.

Do you think a stronger solution of nitric acid might be necessary? WonderGel?

 

[stinkiestbink]

Sorry bro, I have never used any chemical to shine stainless.

 

[tasq]

Sorry bro, I have never used any chemical to shine stainless.

Not a problem, hopefully someone else can chime in.

 

[Sizz]

Following the keg polishing threads, I used gator grid pads to clean out the welds. "Bar Keeper's Friend" brand cleaner afterwards to clean & passivate.

 

[tasq]

Following the keg polishing threads, I used gator grid pads to clean out the welds. "Bar Keeper's Friend" brand cleaner afterwards to clean & passivate.

Thanks Sizz, I'll def try the gator pads if the SS wire wheel doesn't work out.

 

[lincoln]

unfortunately it this don't work you will have to grind it out and start over. the rainbow is not to bad but the black blobs are sugaring.

 

[tasq]

unfortunately it this don't work you will have to grind it out and start over. the rainbow is not to bad but the black blobs are sugaring.

But if we get rid of the sugaring, all should be ok, correct?

 

[lincoln]

if you polish it up, passivate and it dose not rust your fine (for our use)

what the sugaring is telling you is that the base metal has been exposed to o2 while hot. Two bad things happen. First, chromium and other alloying agents are cooked out and second is carbides are formed and comes out of solution making the weld brittle.

 

[tasq]

if you polish it up, passivate and it dose not rust your fine (for our use)

what the sugaring is telling you is that the base metal has been exposed to o2 while hot. Two bad things happen. First, chromium and other alloying agents are cooked out and second is carbides are formed and comes out of solution making the weld brittle.

Got it. Thanks again for your explanations and help!

 

[Sea]

Little confused here. I get that the rust is a problem, but my keggle looks identical from the inside, and I've had no ill effects from it. Is this just a "I want my equip. to look pro" type thing, or are you really concerned that the sugaring will effect your beer?

 

[tasq]

Little confused here. I get that the rust is a problem, but my keggle looks identical from the inside, and I've had no ill effects from it. Is this just a "I want my equip. to look pro" type thing, or are you really concerned that the sugaring will effect your beer?

The goal here is to be able to fill my vessels with water the night before, and not come out to rust in the water on brew day. Cosmetically they are not perfect, which I'm fine with. I just want to make what I have the best it can be. It would also be nice to not have to scrub the rust off every time before I brew.

 

[Sea]

The goal here is to be able to fill my vessels with water the night before, and not come out to rust in the water on brew day. Cosmetically they are not perfect, which I'm fine with. I just want to make what I have the best it can be. It would also be nice to not have to scrub the rust off every time before I brew.

Gotcha. That would suck. My welds may be ugly, but no rust.

 

[wilserbrewer]

Go ahead and continue to clean up the welds. JMO. for a kettle or any "hot side" equipment, I think they will work great. Perhaps a "perfect world" weld is needed for a fermentor?

 

[tasq]

Welp, the wheel didn't take off all of the sugaring, but it sure helped a ton. I will sand the rest out with a flapper wheel this weekend and report back after some BKF love.

 

[lehr]

As long as you start out with the system sanitized you won't have a problem, pre boil fine,post boil would not be so good.

Pat

 

[Spyksman]

Make shure that anything you use has not been used on black iron. You can polish it to a mirror finish but if you use anything that has been used on black iron it will rust. I was a stainless fabricator and i had seporate wheels,brushes etc that were kept seporate other wise you will get the rust nomater how much you cleanit. Hope this helps have runinto this many times.Sometimes some muradic acid band a scotch brite pad will help if not too bad.

 

[xd_haze]

Make shure that anything you use has not been used on black iron. You can polish it to a mirror finish but if you use anything that has been used on black iron it will rust. I was a stainless fabricator and i had seporate wheels,brushes etc that were kept seporate other wise you will get the rust nomater how much you cleanit. Hope this helps have runinto this many times.Sometimes some muradic acid band a scotch brite pad will help if not too bad.

I don't know about the weld situation, but I have a bolt in water heater element in my HLT, and to keep it from rusting when I filled it the night before, I had to put a sacrificial anode in the keg. Mine is just an aluminum rod that I bolted in. Not as elegant, perhaps, but no rust on the element!

haze

 

[tasq]

Welp, I have tried everything. They continue to rust.

Is there any hope of having these fixed? (re-welded with new couplings) Or are they scrap now?

Anybody know a good welder that *could* fix them in Colorado? Where would be the best place to start a thread for that?.

 

[xd_haze]

Welp, I have tried everything. They continue to rust.

Is there any hope of having these fixed? (re-welded with new couplings) Or are they scrap now?

Anybody know a good welder that *could* fix them in Colorado? Where would be the best place to start a thread for that?.

I recommend you try the anode idea. here is a pic of mine:

It corrodes so the steel doesn't have to. They put these in water heaters so that the steel tanks and elements don't rust out. Magnesium is the best, but AL will work. That is just a piece of aluminum rod bolted to the rim, and extending into the water. Any way you can get aluminum in the water and in contact with the tank will do it.

haze

 

[tasq]

I recommend you try the anode idea. here is a pic of mine:

It corrodes so the steel doesn't have to. They put these in water heaters so that the steel tanks and elements don't rust out. Magnesium is the best, but AL will work. That is just a piece of aluminum rod bolted to the rim, and extending into the water. Any way you can get aluminum in the water and in contact with the tank will do it.

haze

Interesting, but I don't have the room for extra stuff in all 3 kegs. I'm in the process of either replacing these, or having them fixed.

Thank you for the info, at any rate.

 

[BargainFittings]

Maybe I've got solder on the brain.

I keep thinking if you could clean the effected areas really well until they are rust free, use the correct flux and then "tin" them with a thin layer of silver solder, you could fix this.

Might be worth trying on one fitting / keg.

 

[tasq]

Maybe I've got solder on the brain.

I keep thinking if you could clean the effected areas really well until they are rust free, use the correct flux and then "tin" them with a thin layer of silver solder, you could fix this.

Might be worth trying on one fitting / keg.

Not a bad idea at all, but I'm not sure I'd be able to get to the bottom couplings very well on the inside.

 

[lincoln]

try it!, you don't have much to loose, better than cutting out the whole mess and starting over again!

regarding the anode idea, i don't think that will help, the anode will fix corrosion due to dissimilar metals, (one could argue that the cooked sst is a different metal)

link

 

[tasq]

try it!, you don't have much to loose, better than cutting out the whole mess and starting over again!

regarding the anode idea, i don't think that will help, the anode will fix corrosion due to dissimilar metals, (one could argue that the cooked sst is a different metal)

link

I've already got 3 new virgin kegs.

I'm just deciding if I want to pay a welder, or go back to weldless for them. It would be nice if these were fixable though. Maybe I'll give it a go.

 

[Spyksman]

I've already got 3 new virgin kegs.

I'm just deciding if I want to pay a welder, or go back to weldless for them. It would be nice if these were fixable though. Maybe I'll give it a go.

You could grind it down to smooth and then fill with some 316 filler rod that might help just try not to over heat or have someone hold a purg linr from the outside and you should be fine.

 

[kladue]

You can repassivate with citric and ascorbic acid in hot water like we do for SS repassivation after welding or grinding and breaking the surface passivation. A 50-50 mix of 1 Lb acid blend in 4gallons of water, heated to 180 degrees, and left to cool for about 6-8 hours will extract the soluble iron and rebuild the oxides to protect the stainless steel where it has been heat affected. This is slower than the nitric acid method but safely do able by the homebrewer, and is the method of choice in the food and beverage handling industry these days. You will only need to cover the weld area, not fill entire keg as only weld or grinding/ polishing area needs attention.