Another 1 bbl brewer

[RegionalChaos]

Steve, is that because the thermal mass of a large mash is not easily adjusted with the small volume being pumped through the HERMS?

I've thought about a HERMS setup for 10-15g batches, so I'm curious..

 

[stevehaun]

Yes, temp control with a HERMS or RIMS is largely a function of flow thru the system and thermal mass of the mash. This is, of course, assuming you have an adequate heat source to raise the temp of the wort flowing thru the heat exchanger. For example, if you have good temp control with flow of X and thermal mass of Y and then you change your thermal mass to 2Y, your ability to control the temperature of the mass will be greatly diminished. The flow thru my system is limited largely by the resistance of the HERMS coil and sometimes by grain bed compaction. Like I said earlier, I had great control with 15 gallon batches and could easily mash out from 150 to 165F in 15 minutes. When I went to 30 gallon batches, I could maintain mash temps but could not raise my mash temp fast enough to mash out in less than 30 minutes. During "mash out", the temp of wort returning to the mash tun is 170F but there is not enough flow to raise the temp of the mash in a reasonable amount of time.

 

[RegionalChaos]

But is the need for adjustment diminished since the large thermal mass would help the tun maintain temp?

 

[TheWhaleShark]

@BoarBeer: Yeah, but then I don't get a neato burrito unidirectional flow! My scientist brain really likes that!

You're right, though; in the end, it's probably most economical to just have a single heating device, rather than multiple different heating devices for different purposes.

Lots of good advice in this thread. Definitely a good read. I'll be keeping close tabs on this.

 

[Kauai_Kahuna]

Jonesing for more pictures here! But it just may be me.

 

[Scottatron]

Jonesing for more pictures here! But it just may be me.

Same here. Any current pictures of the set up?

 

[MikeRLynch]

Alright, sorry for the lack of updates people, but that's because there's been a lack of work being done on the system. That is not, seemingly, a bad thing...

We've decided that it makes more sense from a business perspective to brew at the 7 bbl level. We do not, however have enough money or a place to put a 7 bbl system. We do however, have a semi local brewpub that may be willing to rent out their system and some fermentor space to us.

We would be getting an Alternating Proprietorship Brewing License. This will allow us to essentially piggyback on the existing breweries already established (and up to code) system/insurance/bonding/etc. With this we will be able to skip the problems of building a brewery and get right to making beer.

I know this thread is veering away from the DIY topic, but I figured I'd give a heads up. I'm not sure if I'll start another thread or post it on my blog, right now I'm up to my eyeballs in TTB forms and research. We will still be working on the 1 bbl system as time allows. We want to see it up and running as much as you do!

 

[oldschool]

Keep in mind that HOTD brews with a 4 bbl system.

 

[MikeRLynch]

Well, I figured I’d bring this thread back from the dead and give an update on what’s been going on in the past few years (can hardly believe it’s been that long since we first started this venture).

Life tends to get in the way, and progress on the brewery moved slowly. We spent a lot of time in the planning stage, trying to determine exactly what the best plan would be for us. We did our research, reading the TTB regs at lunch and doing market research at dinner. While we were getting our strategy together, the law changed in Connecticut. Breweries can now serve beer in their tasting rooms, where before they could only give free tastings (along with a mandatory tour). So now we can serve pints of our beer directly to the consumer right over our own bar. It was a huge game changer, and it made our idea of a little 1.5 bbl nano brewery feasible from a profit standpoint.

So armed with this new law we set to work opening the brewery in Woodstock, CT. Unfortunately Woodstock isn’t used to having any kind of real manufacturing businesses, and when we went to the town for the required permitting, they essentially stopped us in our tracks. We could do it, but we’d need special permitting. The first step was a survey and map of the building and grounds by an engineer, somewhere to the tune of $12,000. And that was before we put one shovel in the ground.

Needless to say, we couldn’t stay there. To say we’re doing this on a shoestring is generous, and we just couldn’t afford that much money. Luckily, the neighboring town of Stafford has been extremely helpful and welcoming, so we now rent a space near the center of town and are starting the demo on the new home of Lost Elm Brewing Company this week.

The new space is bigger, closer to the highway, has a bathroom, water plumbed in, floor drains, and a separate room big enough for our fermentation room and cold storage. The landlord has been very helpful and will most likely be helping us put together our brewhouse. It’s been a long time coming, but the ball is really rolling for us. Hopefully we can get all our paperwork in soon and get brewing within a few months.

We’ve used the resources here on homebrewtalk countless times, and we’re still coming on these boards to look up answers to questions or get ideas. If anyone has questions as they’re starting their own venture, feel free to ask us, we’ve probably gone through a lot of the same stuff. Look for more posts on the build, and the brewhouse construction in the coming days and weeks. Thanks to everyone on HBT!

 

[Domminigan]

An excellent update! Though sorry about Woodstock not working out.

 

[MikeRLynch]

Thanks, a couple blurry pics from the build. Digging a trench tonight.

 

[MikeRLynch]

The trench has been dug. It runs all the way from the cold room on the other side of the wall to the floor drains in the foreground. 3 truckloads of concrete rocks, moved by hand. A 1 foot wide trench doesn't sound like much, but when you multiply that by 4 inches deep and over 40 feet long, it's a lot of rock. That will be the last of the back breaking work, we need to dig the dirt and lay our piping at the correct grade, but that's nothing compared to lugging all that concrete debris. With the grade, we're going to have to go down at least 16 inches at the end of the run, so we have to install a sump at the end to pump it up to the main sewage line. More digging.

 

[Cape Brewing]

I'm jealous. We haven't been able to change an effin toilet seat ourselves (slight exaggeration). We have to have licensed pro's pull permits for EVERYTHING we've had to do to our space. It's been a total nightmare. I wish we could some of this stuff ourselves as it would have been done a couple months ago and a few thousand dollars cheaper.

 

[MikeRLynch]

I hear you, luckily my brewing partner is an electrical contractor and has contacts in the trades, so pulling permits so far hasn’t been too much of an issue. A lot of the people we’re having pull permits are just letting us do the work, they’ll take a look at it and let us know if we did anything egregiously wrong, then we can get the inspection. Our landlord is really the hero here though, he’s given us carte blanche to do whatever we want with the space, and he’s a fabricator so he’s giving us a hand welding our tanks and setting up a tippy dump system.

I know a lot of people fret about the state and federal laws when setting up a brewery but really the most important thing is the town you’re in and the building itself. Before you fill out even one TTB form you’ve got to be in with the local zoning commission, building officials, and your landlord (if you have one). If you don’t have that, you don’t even get off the ground.

 

[Cape Brewing]

That's exactly been our experience... BY FAR and away our biggest hurdle has been the small town Building and Plumbing inspectors and a code that seems to be made up on the fly. We look at other nanos around the state and they are able to use all sorts of equip that wouldn't remotely fly in our little tiny town. It's maddening.

We've had our TTB and state ABCC licenses for two months. We already have accounts. And we're not open yet because we're still dealing with nightmare town issues.

 

[MikeRLynch]

And just to head off the question, yes we did have a few beers before we cut the floor :cross:

 

[RScottyL]

Excuse the poor dumb aussie in the corner but how many US gallons or litres is a BBL?

As someone pointed out below your question, it is 31 gallons!

That would also be 2 of these kegs (15.5 gallons) which are the 1/2 BBL size:

 

[gunmetal]

That question was asked almost three years ago, thanks for the quick response

 

[Boar Beer]

good luck guys
Its nice to see more nano's in the works

 

[Calico Jack]

That's exactly been our experience... BY FAR and away our biggest hurdle has been the small town Building and Plumbing inspectors and a code that seems to be made up on the fly. We look at other nanos around the state and they are able to use all sorts of equip that wouldn't remotely fly in our little tiny town. It's maddening.

We've had our TTB and state ABCC licenses for two months. We already have accounts. And we're not open yet because we're still dealing with nightmare town issues.

Gotta love Norton! Wasn't much fun to go to school in that tiny town! Wish you guys were around, oh, 10 years ago or so.

 

[Monster Mash]

And just to head off the question, yes we did have a few beers before we cut the floor :cross:

For future cuts... when cutting concrete use a chalk string and then spray a clear coat to seal it or the water washes it away before you cut....

 

[MikeRLynch]

For future cuts... when cutting concrete use a chalk string and then spray a clear coat to seal it or the water washes it away before you cut....

Lol, now you tell me

Some more pics of the build. We've got a lot of the major stuff roughed in, our carpenter has been amazing. Still waiting on TTB, submitted at the end of September and it's been assigned to an agent as of the end of October, but nothing since then. I think I'll be making some phone calls. Here are some pics of the progress.

The outside of the unit, we're within a larger warehouse space.

The brewing area before the walls, floor drains already in place.

The fermentation/cooler room. We split this in half, the far side we put in r21 insulation for the cooler.

Entrance to the fermentation room.

Better pic of the floor drains

 

[MikeRLynch]

The whole unit, we took down those awful lights

The unit has two garage doors, we'll keep one for deliveries but the other we'll wall off and put in a fire exit.

Drain piping laid in

Framing the brewery

Almost finished, the large windows were found in a pile in the back of the property. The warehouse used to be an 1800's mill, and these were the original windows, the glass is that cool wavy old type. My brewing partner re-glazed each pane himself.

 

[MikeRLynch]

A nice ledge to put your beer down, this will run almost the whole perimeter of the space

Upgrading the power, our brewery will be entirely electric

Starting to wall up the second garage door

The fermentation room, now with a wall dividing it from the cooler space

Little hallway around back of the brewhouse to the bathroom

The unit has 18 foot ceilings, and the space above the fermentation room and cooler was just dead space, so we walled it off and insulated it.

Garage door sealed off

Lights! These are just roughed in, the nice fixtures will be put in place after we paint everything above the white line black

 

[MMUH]

Any Updates?

 

[Boar Beer]

Yes I agree.... whats up did you get your TTB permit?

 

[MardyBum]

i would think that a full sized false bottom would be fine in the bk if you're using mostly leaf hops, they will act as a filter bed.

l