Anchorage A Deal With The Devil clone ? (Barleywine, 17%, oak, galaxy hops... $100/bottle)

[IslandLizard]

1) What am I going to ferment this in ? 6 gallons of wort into a fermentor + 1 gallon of yeast starter = 7 gallons

You need good temp control, low, slow, and steady!

But even then, high gravity fermentations can become explosive. 6 gallons of beer plus 2 x 1 pint of yeast slurries in a 6.5 gallon bucket does not leave enough headroom. Split over 2 buckets or use a larger (wine) bucket, they're around 8 gallons, perhaps?

I wonder why the recipe directions don't mention the 2nd yeast or the possible need for feeding.
It's not impossible to ferment a 1.164 wort from the get go, I've had wonderful RISs in that range, but it's surely pushing it, and the risk of it stalling is always looming.

Now if you're going to feed this, you can start out somewhat smaller as you'll be adding more wort (and nutrients) toward the end. But you need to plan for that, it's a different process.
Also, I'd try very hard to prevent oxidation during the feeding phase. Whenever taking samples and adding wort, I'd leave the lid on, and use a 2nd access hole, so you can stream CO2 in while tinkering with the samples and feeding. But that's me.

 

[brewman !]

Maybe mash 8 gallons, split into 2 = 4 gallons per carboy

I can dedicate a fridge to this. But I don't have it set up yet... the BYO article didn't mention this !

But even then, high gravity fermentations can become explosive. 6 gallons of beer plus 2 x 1 pint of yeast slurries in a 6.5 gallon bucket does not leave enough headroom.

Agreed !

Split over 2 buckets or use a larger (wine) bucket, they're around 8 gallons, perhaps?

The wine buckets are around 10 gallons. I hate them because they are so leaky, air wise.

I currently have:

3 x 6 gallon Better Bottles. I dislike them because they flex if you move them and they are hard to clean through the narrow opening. But they work.

2 x 3 gallon Better Bottles. They don't flex as much as the 6 gallon version, but still hard to clean.

2 x 7 gallon Bigmouth fermentors. They flex, but at least you can get inside to clean them.

Several 1/4 barrel (7.75 gallon) Sanke kegs. I'm about to weld a 4" TC ports on them so they can be used as fermentors.

Several 1/2 barrel (15.5 gallon) Sanke kegs. See above.

I could also borrow 5 gallon carboys from friends.

How much does headspace matter when fermenting a big beer like this ?

I wonder why the recipe directions don't mention the 2nd yeast or the possible need for feeding.

If I/we brew this big wort, how do you feed it ? Or do you think that Anchorage Brewing starts with a smaller wort and then feeds it ?

It's not impossible to ferment a 1.164 wort from the get go, I've had wonderful RISs in that range, but it's surely pushing it, and the risk of it stalling is always looming.

I'm here to learn. Tell me more. What yeast did you use ?

Now if you're going to feed this, you can start out somewhat smaller as you'll be adding more wort (and nutrients) toward the end. But you need to plan for that, it's a different process.

Feed it wort ? Brew more every week ? Can wort in a sterile jar ? I have a pressure cooker and I canned wort for starters way back when...

Also, I'd try very hard to prevent oxidation during the feeding phase. Whenever taking samples and adding wort, I'd leave the lid on, and use a 2nd access hole, so you can stream CO2 in while tinkering with the samples and feeding. But that's me.

I thought oxidation wasn't an issue while yeast were actively fermenting ? I thought they would gobble up any excess oxygen that was available ? Isn't that one advantage to bottle conditioning over forced carbination ? Though this beer will need to be force carbinated.

I could easily weld or solder extra ports on the Sanke kegs. Would also help for pushing the final product into a serving keg. But... you can't see what is going on inside.

Sounds like this will take more prep than I was anticipating. Also sounds like this is a great learning opportunity.

 

[skibb]

My thoughts on this beer after drinking quite a bit of it and also brewing 15%+ ABV beers

I've had this beer the last 4 years its come out and I can definitely say it is a BIG beer - the final gravity is immense - I could easily 1.050's (before hitting the barrels). This would yield ~15% beer and additional ABV pickup would happen with barrel aging - I typically see anywhere from 2-3% ABV pickup from bourbon barrel aging depending on how fresh they are.

From what I've read about this beer - it is 100% Maris Otter malt - this is a robust base malt, and can easily give you a wide array of flavors described by the tasters, especially when coupled with long boils/maillard reactions/kettle caramelization (is his system direct fire?)/oak fermentation. Plenty of dark fruit flavors!

I think pitching a massive starter and dosing with extra O2/yeast nutrient the first couple days of fermentation could be all it takes to brew this beer - no step feeding with sugars required. Though, it is definitely possible he is using sugar to bump up the ABV, but it would also likely result in a lower FG (my experience with incremental sugar feedings on a RIS yielded FGs in the 1.030s via technique from: http://www.craftbrewersconference.com/wp-content/uploads/BeyondMaltHops.pdf [starting at slide 11]). If the yeast are still growing all added O2 in the beer should be absorbed (I usually see yeast growth on our big beers taper off on day 4 of fermentation).

 

[brewman !]

My thoughts on this beer after drinking quite a bit of it and also brewing 15%+ ABV beers

Was it a good beer ? Was it tasty like the tasting notes said ?

 

[skibb]

Was it a good beer ? Was it tasty like the tasting notes said ?

This beer is phenomenal! It is decadent, complex, and the perfect beer for sharing.

I agree with the tasting notes from the OG for the most part... I have never personally detected any phenolic notes in this beer other than some woodiness that has come with some of the variants.

 

[LayerUp]

I'd like to brew it too. And wouldn't want to waste Galaxy on it either.

Maybe some good soul will post the BYO recipe....

I can look to see if I have it when I get home. I would assume there would be an issue with me posting the entire article to the forums, but what about just the recipe?

 

[brewman !]

This beer is phenomenal! It is decadent, complex, and the perfect beer for sharing.

I agree with the tasting notes from the OG for the most part... I have never personally detected any phenolic notes in this beer other than some woodiness that has come with some of the variants.

Thanks for this.

The recipe that we have states it uses 40 IBUs of Galaxy hops. Does that coincide with how it tasted ?

 

[brewman !]

I can look to see if I have it when I get home. I would assume there would be an issue with me posting the entire article to the forums, but what about just the recipe?

The recipe is posted earlier in the thread. I'd love the crib notes from you on the accompanying article, if there is one.

 

[skibb]

Thanks for this.

The recipe that we have states it uses 40 IBUs of Galaxy hops. Does that coincide with how it tasted ?

I did not get much if any bitterness out of this beer, nor hop character (I would NOT waste Galaxy on this) - the sweetness is more so balanced by the booziness/alcohol and wood tannin.

The issue with getting high IBU in a beer like this is that with an OG of 1.164 your hop utilization is going to be crap. I would use the highest AA hop you have access to and probably aim a little higher than 40 IBU.

I would venture to guess the 40 IBU is calculated and not measured. Is that the target for before barrel aging for a year...or after?

 

[brewman !]

I did not get much if any bitterness out of this beer, nor hop character (I would NOT waste Galaxy on this) - the sweetness is more so balanced by the booziness/alcohol and wood tannin.

Do you have any hop recommendation in place of Galaxy ? 40 IBUs sounds about right ?

The issue with getting high IBU in a beer like this is that with an OG of 1.164 your hop utilization is going to be crap. I would use the highest AA hop you have access to and probably aim a little higher than 40 IBU.

I agree.

I would venture to guess the 40 IBU is calculated and not measured. Is that the target for before barrel aging for a year...or after?

I agree it is calculated. Must be 40 IBU added to the boil. All hops mellow fast in strong beer.

 

[brewman !]

I'm still thinking about brewing this beer. Not sure when it is going to happen as it appears I need to get a few more things in order before I do - 2nd stir plate, larger flasks, wort oxygenation system, new fermentors and probably a Tilt hydrometer or something similar, so I don't have to continuously sample as it ferments.

From what I've read about this beer - it is 100% Maris Otter malt - this is a robust base malt, and can easily give you a wide array of flavors described by the tasters, especially when coupled with long boils/maillard reactions/kettle caramelization (is his system direct fire?)/oak fermentation. Plenty of dark fruit flavors!

That is a very interesting inference. I agree that Maris Otter would lend itself to those favors even if it wasn't used in the original recipe. Plain pale malt would have a very plain flavor.

Regarding maillard/carmelization - under what conditions does this happen ? My system boils 6+ gallons vigorously, right on the edge of boiling over, but there is no dark matter left on the kettle bottom. There is no scorching or burning. Boiling happens at 207-208F with an open kettle Boil off is 1 to 1.5 gallons per hour. Heat input is 5 Kw in an 11 gallon pot via induction.

Will the wort undergo maillard reactions/carmelization under these conditions ? Or do I need to dig up a propane burner ?

Thanks to everyone for their input in this thread.

 

[IslandLizard]

I need to get a few more things in order before I do - 2nd stir plate, larger flasks, wort oxygenation system,

Did you miss what I wrote earlier regarding yeast propagation using a single plate, one 2 liter flask, and a couple growlers or jugs? 2 weeks can grow a lot of yeast from one single pack.

You could pump air into your beer continuously for 12-18 hours after pitching, using a 2 micron stone.
Or use one of those small disposable O2 tanks from the hardware store, a flow adjuster ('regulator') and a .5 micron stone.

 

[IslandLizard]

Regarding maillard/carmelization - under what conditions does this happen ? My system boils 6+ gallons vigorously, right on the edge of boiling over, but there is no dark matter left on the kettle bottom. There is no scorching or burning. Boiling happens at 207-208F with an open kettle Boil off is 1 to 1.5 gallons per hour. Heat input is 5 Kw in an 11 gallon pot via induction.

Will the wort undergo maillard reactions/carmelization under these conditions ? Or do I need to dig up a propane burner ?

You need concentrated wort, like first runnings, to get most Maillard and caramelization. Long boil time makes it happen, slowly and gradually, like in brewing a Scotch Ale. If you can see it, it's probably burned, so not seeing it is a good sign.

You could keep a small glass of unboiled first runnings on the side to compare color and judge progress.

No gas needed.