Amazing...Dealyed Start!

[nickjam]

I am a newbie to home brewing (second batch).

My first batch I pitched the yeast into 80 degree wort because I just could not get the temp down on the wort anymore and got frustrated and pitched the yeast. I had active fermintation within 1 hour!

My second batch I perfected the ice water bath and had some PAITIENCE! I pitched into 64 degree wort and
one hour later, nothing.
Two hours later, nothing.
Three hours later, nothing.
Four hours later, nothing.
Five hours later, nothing.

I was tearing my hair out.

24 hours later, nothing.
48 hours later, nothing.

Read the boards here and said that 3 days is about normal.

72 hours later active fermintation!

To everyone who has a delayed start, patience. That seems to be the game with beer brewing. I am not a patient person so this hobby should be very good for my personal growth!

 

[Evan!]

First off, good for you for having patience.

Second, no, 72 hours is definitely not "normal". I had one batch that took 3 days to start (which was the last time I didn't make a starter). I was ready to repitch with something else...I went to the local brewery on the third day and procured fresh yeast from his conicals, came home...and bam, krausen and airlock activity. So I used his yeast for something else, and had a great beer from the original yeast. 72 hours isn't normal...it's stretching the limits of lag time. The longer the lag time, the better possibility of infection from something else. You want to minimize lag time...sometimes that's not possible, but I would suggest making starters in the future.

 

[Turkeyfoot Jr.]

I've read the same thing on here, that fermentation can take upwards of 3 days to get going, but I've never witnessed that myself. I think my slowest batch had a steady fermentation going within the first 24 hours.

I did discover with my last batch that if you want to get things rolling, make a starter. It was my first time making a starter and man did it take off. By 8 hours in, and perhaps even earlier but I wasn't checking it hourly, I had a roaring fermentation going. I was quite impressed. In fact, I just made a starter last night for the stout I'm brewing this weekend.

 

[nickjam]

I used a kit from Williams brewing and how the yeast comes is what I believe is a wyeast packet. So you pop the packet of wort inside the package then wait a few days for the bag to swell then pitch. Isn't that just about the same as a starter?

 

[Turkeyfoot Jr.]

Oh no, smack packs alone are no where near as effective as a starter and I've used both now. Smack packs have some nutrient to wake the yeast up but a starter allows the yeast to really multiply thus giving you a fast-starting and healthy fermentation.

I invested a total of $6 is the stuff to make my starters, a 1 gallon growler, extra airlock and a drilled stopper.

 

[_Edge]

I think we need to correct the spelling on the title and sticky this to the beginners forum.

 

[sacks13]

The problem I have with starters is the effort required. Mind you I've never done one myself, but I have read about how to do them and it seems almost as cumbersome as a brew itself. It's like a mini-brew.

Is there an easy way to do a starter?

Is there any reason why I shouldn't be satisfied with either hydrating and proofing a packet of dry yeast, if it is proven to produce an active fermentation, or go with a smack-pack first?

 

[_Edge]

It's like a mini-brew.

If by mini brew, you mean a 20 minute brew period!

As always, read Palmer first: http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/chapter6-5.html

He has spent much more time writing about it than anyone should here. If you want to make a Cadillac starter, buy an Erlenmeyer flask for about 10 bucks from you LHBS, or a HBS online and a rubber stopper (with a hole) that fits in it.

With a starter, all you really need to do is boil a 1.040 beer with no hops for 15 minutes and then chill it to pitching temp which (with a few cups of water) can be done in a minute or two of running cool water on it. a couple of days later, you have a lot more yeast!

It's hard to understate how much of a better beer you can make using liquid yeast and a starter. It's like giving your good yeast a 3 minute head start on a mile run.

 

[Evan!]

My starter containers consist of a plastic gallon water jug with a hole drilled into the cap to accept a small bung. That's it. Free.

If you think that boiling some DME in some water for 15 minutes then cooling it and pitching yeast into it is as cumbersome as the actual brew, then I need to find out how you brew, because my brewing sessions involve just a little bit more than that...

 

[sacks13]

My starter containers consist of a plastic gallon water jug with a hole drilled into the cap to accept a small bung. That's it. Free.

If you think that boiling some DME in some water for 15 minutes then cooling it and pitching yeast into it is as cumbersome as the actual brew, then I need to find out how you brew, because my brewing sessions involve just a little bit more than that...

Ok settle down now. I'm a newbie and easily could have misunderstood what I've read on other sites.

For one thing, what's a DME and where does one get it? Secondly, is this yeast that is "pitched" into the boiled DME just a smack-pack or a pack of dry yeast, or is it something more than that?

Further, the other issue I have is the timing. Palmer makes it sound like the starter has to be made days prior to brewing, but what about those of us who do not plan brews days in advance? Can you do starters on the same day as the first step in the process?

 

[Turkeyfoot Jr.]

DME is Dry Malt Extract.

-My starters consist of 1/2 cup DME and 2 cups water.

-Bring the water to a boil, toss in the DME, boil for 10-15 minutes and cool.

-Cooling the starter is easy if you have a set of two pots, one slightly larger than the other. Fill the larger with an ice water bath and boil the starter in the smaller. Once the boil's done, immerse the smaller in the larger and it will be cooled in 5 minutes or so.

-Pour the starter into a sterlized starter vessel. I use a gallon growler but you can use whatever.

-I usually swirl the starter in the growler a bit to aerate and then pour in the yeast, swirl a bit more to combine and then stopper and airlock.

-I let mine sit at room temp for a day or two and then refrigerate the night before brewing so that the yeast settles out. I pull it out of the fridge when I get ready to brew and pour off the beer that's on top leaving just a bit of liquid to stir up the yeast in. When the wort's ready just swirl the yeast and pour it in.

From the one brew I've done so far with a starter I'd say it's well worth it.

Starters are most beneficial with liquid yeasts because the cell count is less but I don't think it would "hurt" to do one with a dry yeast. It's just not really necessary.

I've heard some talk about making starters the same day but that's not something I do so I can't speak to it very well. I've found that as I get more and more into brewing I have to plan my brews more and more to make sure I have the room, either in bottles or carboys. For that reason making starters has become an easy fit.

 

[CBBaron]

I did a starter on my last brew and realized it really can be quite easy.

First a starter only has to be done the day before you brew. It doesn't take days to prepare one.

Second dry yeast does not require a starter. Simply rehydrate. The number of yeast cells in a dry pack is several times that of a liquid pack. Because they are cheap if you need more yeast than a single pack, pitch 2.

I did a 2 liter starter in a 3qt juice bottle. My stopper from the carboy fit right in so I use that and my airlock.
Get the yeast out of the fridge to warm up.
I added some Idophor and water to the juice bottle and shook it up to sanitize.
Used the solution to sanitize the stopper, funnel and airlock.
I brought 2 l of water to boil on the stove.
Added 2 cups of DME (dried malt extract)
Brought back to boil and boiled for 10min to sterilize.
Put the pot in a sink full of cold water and let sit for a few minutes. (adding ice or agitating the water speeds the process.)
Pour the wort into the bottle.
Put the cap on a shake vigorously to aerate.
Pitch the yeast, and shake some more.
Put the stopper and airlock in the top.
The next day brew your beer and when ready pour the starter into your wort.
Mine was bubbling in just a few hours.

Its even simpler than the steps seem to indicate and takes less than an hour. I was doing dishes and reading the paper while I prepared the starter.

Craig

 

[CBBaron]

Starters are most beneficial with liquid yeasts because the cell count is less but I don't think it would "hurt" to do one with a dry yeast. It's just not really necessary.

Actually I have read that making a small starter (1 liter or less) does actually deplete the yeast in a dry pack and make them less viable. The dry yeast are ready to go as soon as they are hydrated and a small starter does not have enough food for the number of yeast in the pack.
A 2 liter has no real benefit and you only get yeast count increases with really large starters.
For this reason you really should not make a starter with dry yeast.

Craig.