Am I crazy? Hop schedule for pale ale.

[stamandster]

Recipe ---

Cry Baby Pale

11# 2row Pale
1oz Carafa 2

@15 1oz Apollo (Pellet AA18%)
@5 1oz Apollo (Pellet AA18%)

70% eff - 1.052 OG, 1.017 FG, 5 SRM, 45.6 IBU (BU:GU 0.87), 4.7% ABV
Cry Havoc WLP862


So am I off base by trying to get a ton of flavor and aroma from having alot of hops at the end of the boil?

 

[Captain Damage]

Not off base at all! It's called "hop-bursting" and it's an increasingly popular technique.

 

[thepartsmancometh]

I'm going to make an oat pale ale this weekend with 1 oz ekg at 10 and 1oz at 5. Looking forward to trying hopbursting!

 

[BlakeL]

Yeah, this is a great technique if you want tons of flavor and aroma without all the bitterness. I plan on doing a 15 minute boil extract Red Ale/IPA with this method.

 

[stamandster]

Awesome! I didn't even realize it was a "technique" ... also glad I'm not crazy

Since it's a pale I wanted to it be flavorful and aromatic without all the IBUs of a 60min addition. So I'm happy others are doing something similar. Yeah it uses more hops but I think it's worth it.

 

[dcp27]

heres an article on the technique: http://www.mrmalty.com/late_hopping.php

 

[tre9er]

1.017 FG

That's a relatively high FG...seems like this beer will be pretty malty without any bittering addition. Might try mashing lower.

 

[tre9er]

heres an article on the technique: http://www.mrmalty.com/late_hopping.php

That article quotes a brewer saying that early hop additions help keep boilovers down...I have the opposite experience. Strange.

 

[stamandster]

heres an article on the technique: http://www.mrmalty.com/late_hopping.php

That's a great article thanks!

 

[pgrebus]

Yeah, this is a great technique if you want tons of flavor and aroma without all the bitterness. I plan on doing a 15 minute boil extract Red Ale/IPA with this method.

Keep us posted on how that turns out. I used the Mad Fermentationist's no-boil approach for a Berliner Weisse (kegging it tonight), but haven't done a 15 minute boil beer before.

 

[stamandster]

That's a relatively high FG...seems like this beer will be pretty malty without any bittering addition. Might try mashing lower.

It's hopville It's not great with calculating the OG based on mash temps, or yeast for that matter. I'm going with 150-152f; probably bring it down to 1.015 or lower.

Also, all bittering comes in with the large addition of hops. From what I'm reading I don't necessarily need a 60m+ addition to get my core bittering.

 

[tre9er]

It's hopville It's not great with calculating the OG based on mash temps, or yeast for that matter. I'm going with 150-152f; probably bring it down to 1.015 or lower.

Also, all bittering comes in with the large addition of hops. From what I'm reading I don't necessarily need a 60m+ addition to get my core bittering.

Yeah, after I posted that I read the article and realized you weren't removing the early bittering and not changing the rest, rather increasing the later additions to get the IBU's back up.

 

[novaraz]

I recently did something similar for my first homemade recipe (an extract Pale Ale):
1oz Citra @ 60min
1oz Cascade @ 20min
0.5oz Cascade, 0.5oz Saaz @ 10min

I did this mostly to use up extra hops, and it worked out great! Might be the best beer I brewed yet. My FG was 1.013, so it's got a nice malty favor, with moderate hop flavor and aroma. Best of all it goes down smoooooth!

 

[stamandster]

I recently did something similar for my first homemade recipe (an extract Pale Ale):
1oz Citra @ 60min
1oz Cascade @ 20min
0.5oz Cascade, 0.5oz Saaz @ 10min

I did this mostly to use up extra hops, and it worked out great! Might be the best beer I brewed yet. My FG was 1.013, so it's got a nice malty favor, with moderate hop flavor and aroma. Best of all it goes down smoooooth!

Post a pic!

 

[novaraz]

Post a pic!

Sorry for the delay, still figuring out how the boards work.
This brew was a smash! It's called "New House Pale Ale" and brewed for a house warming. We drank about 2/3 of the keg! It's nice that my first recipe worked out. Once chilled and carbed, the malt and hops where much more balanced.

stamandster, sorry to treadjack, how'd your brew turn out?

 

[stamandster]

That's awesome! My coloring matches smuttynoses pale to a tee (although mine has no chill haze ). It actually came out really well. The Apollo lends itslef nicely to being a partner to the slight maltiness of the pale 2 row, not overpowering. The Apollo isn't harsh either like the smutty's hops and has a nice subtle aroma. Turned out very well balanced. I'll post a pic soon! I also cold sparged and I'm wondering if that helped to give it a medium-light body (or mashing at 152). If I do it again I would dry hop to get a little more aroma.

 

[Calichusetts]

I only hop burst now...5 additions at 20, 15, 10 5 and flameout. I love it. I use beersmith and regularly calculate my brews to as high as 90-100 IBU, but there is virtually no bitterness to the beer, its fantastic. Only if I'm doing an imperial or something over 7% do I FWH.

PS- I calculate my flameout addition as a 1 minute so my IBUs might be artifically higher.

 

[tre9er]

I only hop burst now...5 additions at 20, 15, 10 5 and flameout. I love it. I use beersmith and regularly calculate my brews to as high as 90-100 IBU, but there is virtually no bitterness to the beer, its fantastic. Only if I'm doing an imperial or something over 7% do I FWH.

PS- I calculate my flameout addition as a 1 minute so my IBUs might be artifically higher.

Did this on my last PA. Nice to only do a 30m boil, too. I wait for hot-break to call it "boiling" and then add my bittering hops and start the 30m clock. So far it smells and tastes fantastic. All NZ hops in this one.

 

[BeardedIdiot]

Did this on my last PA. Nice to only do a 30m boil, too. I wait for hot-break to call it "boiling" and then add my bittering hops and start the 30m clock. So far it smells and tastes fantastic. All NZ hops in this one.

I'm going to have to try this method. A shorter boil time would definitely be nice...

 

[iskuse]

That article quotes a brewer saying that early hop additions help keep boilovers down...I have the opposite experience. Strange.

I risk boil-overs every time I add the hops!

 

[tre9er]

I risk boil-overs every time I add the hops!

Two drops of fermcap-s works wonders. Don't worry about the "is it safe" people...two drops is exponentially less than the recommended dosage.

 

[dcp27]

Nice to only do a 30m boil, too. I wait for hot-break to call it "boiling" and then add my bittering hops and start the 30m clock.

if you're doing AG, you should still be doing at least 60m boils (DMS removal, etc) regardless of hop timing

 

[tre9er]

if you're doing AG, you should still be doing at least 60m boils (DMS removal, etc) regardless of hop timing

Darker Pale Ale malt, excellent hot-break, rolling boil, rapid chilling, and vigorous ale fermentation all reduce DMS. These factors were all true of my batch.

 

[bigdongsr94]

It's another thread but to think that 1 hour is magic for DMS and it just runs away is funny. I've been doing 30min boils, no issues. So much of the standard brew method is just because and can be altered. Like BIAB, it's not a breakthrough. I mean it's simple, just not the normal American way.

 

[tre9er]

It's another thread but to think that 1 hour is magic for DMS and it just runs away is funny. I've been doing 30min boils, no issues. So much of the standard brew method is just because and can be altered. Like BIAB, it's not a breakthrough. I mean it's simple, just not the normal American way.

Now, with lighter malts like Pilsner, you want longer boils...but there are many things that affect DMS, not just boil time.

 

[dcp27]

It's another thread but to think that 1 hour is magic for DMS and it just runs away is funny.

its not a magic time, its based on the half life of DMS, which is about 35mins. yes 30mins can work out, but depending on your grain bill, it may not be enough. its likely just an issue with pils malt. ive done some shorter boils before too, but in the grand scheme of how much time we put into beer id rather give it the extra 30mins than risk 5gals of cooked corn

 

[DrHop]

its not a magic time, its based on the half life of DMS, which is about 35mins. yes 30mins can work out, but depending on your grain bill, it may not be enough. its likely just an issue with pils malt. ive done some shorter boils before too, but in the grand scheme of how much time we put into beer id rather give it the extra 30mins than risk 5gals of cooked corn

The half life may be 35 minutes but the remaining DMS is an equally strong function of how much DMS you start with. There are lower returns, the longer you boil. Don't yeast also process quite a bit of DMS out of the beer during fermentation.

 

[tre9er]

Don't yeast also process quite a bit of DMS out of the beer during fermentation.

The co2 from ferm removes some of it too. There are several factors and for many styles its not noticeable even if it IS present in higher amounts.

 

[stamandster]

Threadjacked!!! lol /jk I do it all the time. I enjoy healthy discussions

 

[Chriso]

So, I'm curious where "the line" is, then! IBU is not a good measure, since we are talking about late additions - but - where do you stop?

I have a bunch of hops I should be using up... could I do some kind of crazy English Bitter or something, and hop it with...let's say EKG pellets at 5%.... give it like 1oz at 60 min, 1oz at 10 min, 1oz at 5 min, 1oz at Flameout - or is that overkill?

What if I switch the EKG out for .... Green Bullet 15%? .... Liberty 5% .... In otherwords, I'm asking - for any given hop, how do you calculate the "NO DONT GO THERE!" line, where it crosses from flavor into psychotic hop usage?

I feel like I don't use enough hops. My "hoppy" recipes only use up 2.5oz, 3.0oz at a time. I have like 4# to use up, and just ordered 2# more. I think I have a hop sickness.

 

[tre9er]

So, I'm curious where "the line" is, then! IBU is not a good measure, since we are talking about late additions - but - where do you stop?

I have a bunch of hops I should be using up... could I do some kind of crazy English Bitter or something, and hop it with...let's say EKG pellets at 5%.... give it like 1oz at 60 min, 1oz at 10 min, 1oz at 5 min, 1oz at Flameout - or is that overkill?

What if I switch the EKG out for .... Green Bullet 15%? .... Liberty 5% .... In otherwords, I'm asking - for any given hop, how do you calculate the "NO DONT GO THERE!" line, where it crosses from flavor into psychotic hop usage?

I feel like I don't use enough hops. My "hoppy" recipes only use up 2.5oz, 3.0oz at a time. I have like 4# to use up, and just ordered 2# more. I think I have a hop sickness.

Chris, most of these hop bursts are aroma additions anyway. Anything after say 10 minutes is going to be *primarily* aroma, although some flavor. Aroma is hard to maintain in a beer with all of the Co2 involved throughout fermentation and carbonation. The flavor additions are going to be relatively similar to a "normal" beer but increase to get more IBU's.

I always start with IBU's, a target for the style, then I move my additions around and increase/decrease them to keep the IBU's in line.

My suggestion to you is to dry hop more on PA/IPA's. And do it twice, once in fermenter, once in keg. The longer you're going to secondary it, the more dry hops I'd use, too. I drink my PA/IPA's within two weeks. The grain bills are simple, temp control keeps a clean fermentation, and the hops are best fresh.

 

[stamandster]

Ok so I ended up with only 60% efficiency, atten. down to about 1005. I used 2 ounces of carafa 2 and us-05. I cold sparged and mashed in at 150 @ 60 min. Hop at 15 and 5 min had about 1.25 ounces of Apollo. Used gelatin to fine. No head only because it took me forever to get a camera working. Crystal clear and oh so good! Don't mind the crappy cell phone pics it really is clear