alternatives to malt extract?

[patpend3]

Hey are there any alternatives to malt extract? I would like to try to make a beer with something that doesn't contribute so much flavor.

Call me crazy but I want to make the crystal Pepsi of beers, Something as clear as a mountain stream and lightly hopped!

 

[Orfy]

Sorry for this but please please go and do a little reading.
This is either a wind up or the worst question I've EVER seen on HBT.

I don't know what crystal pepsi is but I can guess.
What you are describing isn't beer.
Beer gets it's flavour from malted barley and hops.

Take a look around our wiki or www.howtobrew.com or the beersmith web site.
They'll all let you see what the different ingredients contribute to beer.

 

[Chad]

Hey are there any alternatives to malt extract? I would like to try to make a beer with something that doesn't contribute so much flavor.

Call me crazy but I wasn't to make the crystal Pepsi of beers, Something as clear as a mountain stream and lightly hopped!

There are light, extra light and even ultra light dry malt extracts. On the liquid side, there are pilsner malt extracts that contribute very little color.

Are you perhaps thinking of crystal malts rather than malt extracts? Crystal malts contribute color, malty sweetness and mouthfeel, which sounds like what you are describing. In an extract batch, crystal malts are usually steeped before adding the extract and bringing things to a boil.

It sounds like you have a bad experience with a beer kit. If you were to give us the recipe perhaps we could figure out what went awry and steer you in the right direction.

Chad

 

[Tenchiro]

You could always make a hop tea with an ounce of hops, add that to 5 gal water and then use enough grain alcohol to bring it to the desired ABV.

It wouldn't be beer, and wouldn't taste like it either. Like Orfy said, beer gets its flavor from the malt and there is no way to really get around the color the malt provides.

 

[Orfy]

Have a quick read of this and see if it gives you some pointers.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/i-want-brew-budweiser-23302/

 

[patpend3]

Are there any malt extracts that are completely translucent and colorless?

 

[Orfy]

It will not be beer if you don't use malted barley extract.
Is the 0ish srm really more important than it being beer?

If you want help making beer then we can help you make light coloured beer.

If you want to make a light near tasteless alcoholic drink then this really is not the correct forum to be asking for help.

 

[patpend3]

Hey at the risk of sounding blasphemes; can I use Corn syrup, Rice Syrup, or Sorghum Syrup as an alternative to Malt extract?

 

[Brooklyn-Brewtality]

echnically you can. But you won't be making beer. Malt extract is full of flavor, beer flavor. The others are not.


That's the simple answer. I would five the long and complex one, but am on my phone right now

 

[Stratotankard]

I know people here have made sorghum beers. BigKahuna maybe? Do a search for "gluten free" to find some recipes. I've never had one and I know there are some tricks to making a GF beer. As far as corn syrup or rice syrup go, I think they can be used as adjuncts (in small amounts) but contribute to some off flavours when you use them in too large a quantity.

Terje

 

[Sager Brewing Co.]

I don't know, could you call that beer? Usually if you are fermenting all or mostly just sugar, its called a wash and is then used to make a distilled beverage such as Rum.

 

[TeleTwanger]

Hey at the risk of sounding blasphemes; can I use Corn syrup, Rice Syrup, or Sorghum Syrup as an alternative to Malt extract?

No. .

 

[eddie]

Hey at the risk of sounding blasphemes; can I use Corn syrup, Rice Syrup, or Sorghum Syrup as an alternative to Malt extract?

Sorghum syrup can be used as a base much like malt extract in a 1:1 ratio but the others I wouldn't use but sparingly.

 

[Cpt_Kirks]

They would increase the ABV, but you would not have much flavor.

Is that what they use to make the flavor-less "malt beverages" that they have to add flavoring to?

 

[EvilTOJ]

"malt beverages" or "alcopops" like Smirnoff Ice or Zima are made just like soda is, with artificial colors, flavors, and distilled alcohol. A very VERY tiny amount of malt is fermented and added to it so they can fit the legal description of 'malt beverage' so it can be sold in grocery stores, instead of liquor stores.

If you ferment anything other than malt sugar you are not making beer, simple as that. I remember crystal pepsi, and I liked it. It was like regular pepsi, but clear like Sprite. If you're looking for something chicks will drink, many (but not all, I see you ladies reading this and about to reply nastily to me) like fruit beers, wit beers, or cider.

It's been my experience that when someone makes an unusual request, but doesn't give any info as to why they want to do this (random example; "Can I ferment in a trashcan in my closet?" = "I'm underage") it means they're hiding something.

 

[DutchK9]

The Japanese make a rice beer. One particular brand I had in college was called Suntory. I have no idea how to make something like it though.

Most people on this forum come here because they want a fuller beer other than light American beers. I am not saying light pilseners are not made by members, but most people want an ale, porter, or stout because they enjoy the taste of malts, grains, and hops.

 

[uglygoat]

sounds like the op wants to make mead. use honey and water and a few hops. age for upwards of one year.

blasphemes

 

[Bobby_M]

You can certainly use half pils malt extract and half rice syrup and make something like what you're after. It won't garner much respect from 99% of the folks around here but it would work.

 

[Hagen]

it sounds like he's trying to make Zima. As someone else said, it's more of an industrial process than it is brewing.
You'd be better off making cider or mead.

 

[Nooner]

I registered specifically to dispute what has been stated by some on this thread. I disagree that anything other than malted barley makes beer. There are plenty of other beers made around the world from other grains like sorghum, teff, rice, etc. I understand the reaction some are having because of the motives of the original poster (wanting to make a seemingly flavorless and colorless beer), but again I have to disagree with the statement that ONLY barley makes beer and if another grain is used it is not beer. And from a moderator?

Thanks...I feel better.

Good luck to you patpend3 in figuring out what you want to make and how to make it. I hope you enjoy whatever it is.

 

[Beards Brews]

All of those malts are going to impart some color and you won't have that Crystal Pepsi (bleh) / Zima (again, bleh) color. If you use sorghum you're still going to run into the problem of color, but maybe not so much with Karo or Rice syrup.

If I were looking to make a clear, zesty alcoholic beverage, I'd make white lightning. I am in Georgia after all.

Good luck.

 

[lapaglia]

About 5.5 cups of Karo light and water to make one gallon will give you an OG of 1.055. That will ferment out with no problem. It won't be beer in any way shape or form but it will ferment out. I have some laying around. I may have to make a 1/2 gallon batch just to see what it tastes like. Im betting it will be pretty much alcohol water with a SMALL vanilla flavor. But it is NOT beer.

 

[pistolero]

I registered specifically to dispute what has been stated by some on this thread. I disagree that anything other than malted barley makes beer. There are plenty of other beers made around the world from other grains like sorghum, teff, rice, etc. I understand the reaction some are having because of the motives of the original poster (wanting to make a seemingly flavorless and colorless beer), but again I have to disagree with the statement that ONLY barley makes beer and if another grain is used it is not beer. And from a moderator?

Thanks...I feel better.

Good luck to you patpend3 in figuring out what you want to make and how to make it. I hope you enjoy whatever it is.

Beer is made with malted barley as a main ingredient. Yes many other things can be added depending on style, rice, corn, wheat, honey, on and on, but if it doesn't have barley it isn't really what we call beer.

All kinds of alcoholic beverages are made from all kinds of stuff, sake from rice, whiskey from corn, wine from grapes, etc etc etc.
I could make a weak white wine and call it "clear beer". I suppose you could ferment table sugar and CALL it beer, but that doesn't really make it beer.

 

[mmb]

Hey are there any alternatives to malt extract? I would like to try to make a beer with something that doesn't contribute so much flavor.

Call me crazy but I want to make the crystal Pepsi of beers, Something as clear as a mountain stream and lightly hopped!

Buy MGD 64 by the case.

When brewing extract your going to have trouble getting something that light just because with the amount of sugars you have in the boil you are going to end up scorching some and getting color from that.

I suppose a pound of Extra Light DME and 6 pounds of rice sugar solids would still be able to be called "beer" but chances are it wouldn't taste good at all.

 

[Brewing Clamper]

Let's all back up a little bit here... I feel this is futile but I'll give it a shot:

To the op: Why don't you tell us what "beers" you like to drink and why. What characteristics of know commercial beers do you want in your "crystal beer"? Something like bud light? St. Ides? Or, is this just for the novelty of making a beer that looks like sprite? Because you could ferment sprite, I've done it with coke, it was undrinkable but hella funny.

 

[HOOTER]

I registered specifically to dispute what has been stated by some on this thread. I disagree that anything other than malted barley makes beer. There are plenty of other beers made around the world from other grains like sorghum, teff, rice, etc. I understand the reaction some are having because of the motives of the original poster (wanting to make a seemingly flavorless and colorless beer), but again I have to disagree with the statement that ONLY barley makes beer and if another grain is used it is not beer. And from a moderator?

Fair enough. Let's just say that you need malted barley to make real beer. I think the Germans had it right when they established the Reinheitsgebot. Water, barley, hops and yeast. Now that's beer.

 

[patpend3]

I just bottled my first IPA today its been in the primary for just about two weeks.

You guys have helped out a lot with my question on alternatives to malt extract, so I've decided to forget that whole idea for a while, I've decided to go with a barley wine instead ($47's for the kit at the Beernut)... I've got my wort on the stove as we speak.

I hope I don't **** it up!)

 

[Clayton]

booo Pat , what are you hideing in salt lake.!.
PS sorgum is dark and has a stong taste its kinda a malt extract in its own right
itmay not be malted but it has all the protens sugers colors and flavors of one.

nooner, you are wrong .
The Ancient Egyptians made beer by bakeing extra yeasty loaves of barley
that thay would crumble in a crock with water and more yeast and mabe a few dates if there where any at the LHBS (the bazaar

afterward it was dank morning noon and night by all ages and classes.
beer started with barley, is made from barley, and has always contained barley,
and anything less is just uncivilized.

 

[Clayton]

a barly wine ??? WTF are you pulling my leg? you whent from a zima to a barly wine

You guys have helped out a lot with my question on alternatives to malt extract, so I've decided to forget that whole idea for a while,

BTW you never let slip what this idea really was.

 

[Orfy]

Nooner.

Yes this mod is really not interested in helping anyone make low quality swill.
But I am helpful enough to point out that it is not beer without barley. I didn't say only barley.
I even offered to help you create a beer that the OP may like.

Yes it is my opinion that beer should have flavour and be of a certain quality.
You don't have to agree with my opinion but I certainly do not have to agree with yours.

 

[shafferpilot]

I'll never understand why some get all up in a huff when someone wants to make a really light beer. It IS beer. My suggestion would have been to use the lightest pilsner extract you can find and some rice solids. then bolster the alcohol content with corn sugar (no more than 10% of the fermentable sugar). And stick to an ABV of 4% or less. It's tempting to try and make it stronger than that, but you'll be sorry if you do. You can't get much lighter than that. The hops should be bittering hops only, and use very very little of them. Be prepared to let it sit in secondary for a month or two as it'll take a while for those subtle flavours to mature.

But since you're now making barleywine.... which is quite a switch... I guess it doesn't matter any more.

Do yourself a favor and don't cave the next time a fellow homebrewer tries to beat you with the rheinsgebot. What's the point of a hobby where you don't get to do what you want, and you end up with a product that doesn't even resemble what you wanted in the first place?

 

[Orfy]

It's not a light beer and it's nothing to do with some old purity law.
I've wrote thread helping brewers create ligh beers and to help them see what is involved.

The OP wanted to create an alcholic brew that was as far removed from beer as possible.

 

[Special Hops]

I think he is talking about "ZIMA".

 

[Chad]

nooner, you are wrong .
The Ancient Egyptians made beer by bakeing extra yeasty loaves of barley
that thay would crumble in a crock with water and more yeast and mabe a few dates if there where any at the LHBS (the bazaar

Actually Nooner is exactly right. There are many types of beer all over the world that never see a barley kernel.

• Chica: a maize beer from South America made from unmalted maize
• Chang: Rice beer of Himalaya
• Kvass: Russian small beer made from rye bread and lemons
• Pissionia: Yuma native beer made from roasted wheat
• Pombe: East African beer made from millet
• Tesguino: Aztec beer made from malted corn

and a bunch of others, like roggenbier or sahti, where barley is just one grain or even an adjunct rather than the main grain. The type of beer we usually talk about on HBT is primarily barley, but Nooner's point is valid. All beer is not made with barley.

Chad

sources: Radical Brewing, Randy Mosher, Brewers Publications 2004
Origin and History of Beer and Brewing, John P. Arnold, Wahl-Henius Institute of Fermentology 1911; reprint Beerbooks.com 2005

 

[TeleTwanger]

I'll never understand why some get all up in a huff when someone wants to make a really light beer. It IS beer. My suggestion would have been to use the lightest pilsner extract

Of course light beers are beers but the OP wanted to use NO malt extract, not very light, or a little bit, but ZERO. Obviously it can be done but I don't know how.

 

[Orfy]

Actually Nooner is exactly right. There are many types of beer all over the world that never see a barley kernel.

• Chica: a maize beer from South America made from unmalted maize
• Chang: Rice beer of Himalaya
• Kvass: Russian small beer made from rye bread and lemons
• Pissionia: Yuma native beer made from roasted wheat
• Pombe: East African beer made from millet
• Tesguino: Aztec beer made from malted corn

and a bunch of others, like roggenbier or sahti, where barley is just one grain or even an adjunct rather than the main grain. The type of beer we usually talk about on HBT is primarily barley, but Nooner's point is valid. All beer is not made with barley.

Chad

sources: Radical Brewing, Randy Mosher, Brewers Publications 2004
Origin and History of Beer and Brewing, John P. Arnold, Wahl-Henius Institute of Fermentology 1911; reprint Beerbooks.com 2005

Those are fermented drinks but not beer.
If you've tasted some of these drinks you will know that they are not beer and do not taste like beer.
I have shared a pot of Pombe or "Kaffir beer" as it was know in the area. It does not taste, smell or look like beer. When it comes down to it you can ferment anything containing starch if it has the correct enzymes to convert it to sugar.

Here is a tried and tested recipe. Try this if it's what you want to do.

"African Opaque Beer"
1/2 kilo (1.1 lbs) sorghum malt
1/2 kilo (1.1 lbs) unmalted millet
Packet Red Star baking yeast

 

[chazzman]

I am glad this came up. The beers in question were called "mock beers"
in the 70's when I made my first miserable attempts at beermaking. There
was a small well-written book back then I used to own called "Home Brewed
Beers and Stouts" that had a recipe called Bran Ale which it described as
an "excellent, cheap ale" that I am currently looking for. That is, am
currently looking for both the recipe and the book, both at home and
online. Anybody have it?

 

[rabidgerbil]

Pretty much any definition that I can find anywhere, dictionaries, wikipedia, etc, all match up to what wikipedia says:

It is produced by the brewing and fermentation of starches, mainly derived from cereals — the most common of which is malted barley, although wheat, corn, and rice are also widely used. Most beer is flavoured with hops, which add bitterness and act as a natural preservative, though other flavourings such as herbs or fruit may occasionally be included. Alcoholic beverages fermented from non-starch sources such as grape juice (wine) or honey (mead) are not classified as beer.

That being said, I have to agree that it sounds like the OP wants to reproduce a commercial malt beverage like Zima.

 

[CBBaron]

Those are fermented drinks but not beer.
If you've tasted some of these drinks you will know that they are not beer and do not taste like beer.
I have shared a pot of Pombe or "Kaffir beer" as it was know in the area. It does not taste, smell or look like beer. When it comes down to it you can ferment anything containing starch if it has the correct enzymes to convert it to sugar.

Here is a tried and tested recipe. Try this if it's what you want to do.

Orfy,
I have to disagree, by definition they are beer.
However you are correct in that they will not taste anything like beer made with malted barley. You could say they are not "real" beer. And I feel you gave good answers to the OP.

It sounds like the goal of the OP was to make hooch. HBT is about beer (mead and wine). And 99.9% of the time it is about beer made from malted barley and hops.

Craig

 

[shafferpilot]

fair enough. I just got the impression the OP was looking for an extremely light beer and had made the incorrect assumption that the only way to do so was to work without malted barley entirely.

I do think we have a new topic for the debate forum, though.

Beer: What is it exactly?