Alternative yeast suggestions wanted

[tomwirsing]

I'm doing my Winter Warmer/Christmas Ale Saturday afternoon. I'm making some slight modifications to a couple of recipes I've found. Minor changes to the grain bill, adding some ginger, and switching from lemon peels to orange zest, changes I'm not overly concerned with (although feedback on how much orange zest and ginger is appropriate would be welcome). I'm looking for something big, warming, and noticeably seasonal/Christmasy. The recipe is below.

My main concern was with the interplay of the hops and yeast. I wanted to conribute some funky Belgian flavor (which seems Christmasy to me) so I was planning on using White Labs Trappist Ale-WLP500. One of the recipes I'm basing this on called for Wyeast American Ale Yeast, the other for Mauri Brew 514 Ale—Dry. Both are using Cascade for finishing hops. I still have time to get different hops.

I pitched my 24 ounce starter about 50 hours ago and it still tastes like sugar water. It's in a 1.5 Liter wine bottle and the 3 piece airlock hasn't really shown signs of bubbling that I've noticed, but the moving piece is held high. Right now I see a 3/4 inch layer of solid at the bottom, the rest of it is pretty hazy. Any input on the condition of my yeast? This is the first time I've used a starter. If the yeast is toast, I'll need to scramble. I'm open to multiple suggestions, as I think I'm going to have to work with what my LHBS has to offer.

10 Gallons
65% efficiency
Target OG 1.077
Target FG 1.019
Target SRM 18
Target ABV 7.60%
Target IBU 20


14 lbs Pilsner
14 lbs 2 row
2 lbs med crystal
3 lbs dark crystal
4 oz Liberty @ 60 min
Irish moss @ 15 min
2 oz Cascade @ 5 min
2 oz Cascade @ flame out
Trappist Ale Yeast

Allspice 1.0 tsp @ 5 min
Ground clove 0.5 tsp-@ 5 min
Zest of 2 oranges @ 5 min
Cinnamon 2 tsp @5 min
Cardamom 4 seeds - crushed @ 5 min
1/4 oz fresh grated ginger @ 5 min
Zest of 2 oranges - @ flameout
1/4 oz fresh grated ginger @ flameout

 

[SavageSteve]

Try shaking the bottle to rouse the yeast and see if you get any foaming-- if it foams, then there is some fermentation taking place. Also, yeast starters do better with frequent shaking to drive off CO2. How much malt extract did you use for the starter? If you used a lot, then it could take a while for it to stop tasting like sugar water. Is the layer on the bottom white? If so, then it's definitely a bunch of yeast.

Your recipe looks mighty tasty!

-Steve

 

[Poindexter]

Your recipe sounds OK to me, and I don't generally like holiday brews.

That would work OK with WY1098- London Ale, if you must, maybe breadier than you want.

FWIW I soak my citrus zests in a suitable amount of white liquor (rum, vodka, Everclear, etc) for a few weeks and then strain the actual fruit bits out before adding the infused liquor to secondary. If you go to 1098 you might could use gin.

I agree on giving your starter a good jiggle, the idea of a Trappist yeast on all that is a good one.

 

[tomwirsing]

I didn't know about swirling a starter. I gave this one a swirl and things are settling again. The bottom layer is fairly solid, but not really white. This yeast probably sat for 8 months or so before I made this starter of 24 ounces of water boiled with 3/4 cup DME. I probably put about 8 ounces of yeast sediment into the starter. It looks like I might have more than that now, but certainly not twice as much.

 

[SavageSteve]

Is this re-used yeast from a previous batch? I'm not sure where else you'd get 8 ounces of yeast sediment otherwise. Eight months is a long time to sit around, unless the yeast was prepared properly or fed occasionally. I think you might need some new yeast.

-Steve

 

[Revvy]

I didn't know about swirling a starter. I gave this one a swirl and things are settling again. The bottom layer is fairly solid, but not really white. This yeast probably sat for 8 months or so before I made this starter of 24 ounces of water boiled with 3/4 cup DME. I probably put about 8 ounces of yeast sediment into the starter. It looks like I might have more than that now, but certainly not twice as much.

If you "fairly solid layer at the bottom" that more than likely means it is reproducing....Out of every dozen starters I have made, I have only actually seen one krauzen on it, And yet, ALL the starters made beer for me.

Just like in the fermenter, fermentation isn't always dynamic...It doesn't matter one blip in your fermenter or your starter flask if the airlock bubbles or not, or if you see a krauzen.

All that really matters is that creamy band o yeast at the bottom.

If you wanna read my take on how I think the idea of "bad yeast" is really a rarity and we need to relax more and learn to trust them, look here. https://www.homebrewtalk.com/1513865-post10.html

 

[tomwirsing]

Thanks guys.

iswirled the starter again Saturday morning. It hadn't settled by pitch time at 6:30 pm, so I just dumped the whole thing in the carboys. One was rocking when I woke up Sunday morning, the other took off sometime betwenn 9 and 12 Sunday morning.

I'll take Revvy's advice to heart and nto worry too much about my yeast or lack of apparent activity in my starter. I was quite surprised to learn that the starter wouldn't act like a pitch into a brew, but now I know.