Alternative Purge Method for Carboy Headspace?

[SRJHops]

I don't own (or really want to purchase) a Co2 tank, but I do want to purge the headspace in my carboy after dry hopping, to help prevent oxidation. Does anyone have an alternative method? A few ideas I have are:

1. Adding a little sugar to restart fermentation a bit.

2. Adding some carbonated water.

3. Use some kind of hand-held Co2 device, perhaps something used for bike tires or soda pop?

Any suggestions?

 

[day_trippr]

Dry hop with a couple/few fermentation points remaining and let the beer flush out the head space...

Cheers!

 

[SRJHops]

Dry hop with a couple/few fermentation points remaining and let the beer flush out the head space...

Cheers!

Thanks for the reply. That would work fine for early dry hopping (which I do), but I want to dry hop (for aroma) a few days before bottling, when fermentation has already finished.

I also don't really want to keep opening the fermenter to check the gravity, especially if I can't purge the oxygen.

Ever since I started using low oxygen (LODO) cold-side techniques my beer has improved immensely. I'm just some dry-hop aroma away from where I want it to be...

 

[JimRausch]

I have in the past added about 1/2 cup sugar when I rack to a carboy for secondary cold conditioning purposes. It does kick off enough fermentation activity to give me peace of mind.
I did read something in a prior post about a wine 'preserver' that shoots CO2, Nitrogen, and I think Argon for use after you open a bottle. I looked for one at my local wine store, but didn't find anything. Can't remember what thread the comment was in either. Frack, I must be getting old.

 

[OG-wan Kenobi]

Just add some sugar let the yeast work for you I have never ever had an oxidation issue doing this. If you monitor your fermentation like a hawk Day Trippr has very good advice that involves nothing extra.

 

[SRJHops]

I have in the past added about 1/2 cup sugar when I rack to a carboy for secondary cold conditioning purposes. It does kick off enough fermentation activity to give me peace of mind.
I did read something in a prior post about a wine 'preserver' that shoots CO2, Nitrogen, and I think Argon for use after you open a bottle. I looked for one at my local wine store, but didn't find anything. Can't remember what thread the comment was in either. Frack, I must be getting old.

Thanks for the suggestions. I will look for that wine preserver, and maybe also drop in some sugar. I don't transfer to secondary anymore, but the sugar theory seems sound. My only worry might be that it could decrease carbonation in the bottles as they condition.

Speaking of wine, I found this thread - it's about wine, but I think some of these techniques might also work with beer: https://blog.eckraus.com/i-have-too-much-headspace-in-the-secondary-fermenter

 

[Jag75]

I take it you dont keg and only bottle . One thing I saw on YouTube was a guy using soda stream to purge when they bottle. You could use it to purge a carboy as well . There is a hack to refill those tanks as well. Honestly co2 tank aren't very much . They come in handy and only cost about 12 $ to switch out. Soda stream may be an option. I'm thinking of getting one just for the convienance.

 

[SRJHops]

I take it you dont keg and only bottle . One thing I saw on YouTube was a guy using soda stream to purge when they bottle. You could use it to purge a carboy as well . There is a hack to refill those tanks as well. Honestly co2 tank aren't very much . They come in handy and only cost about 12 $ to switch out. Soda stream may be an option. I'm thinking of getting one just for the convienance.

Yeah, I just bottle for now... I've been wondering about soda stream and if those little C02 cartridges would work, though I wonder about the cost...

I just found the wine preserver! It's a $7 can of gas that certainly would work for beer too:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00IB7PHSE/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

 

[Jag75]

Yeah, I just bottle for now... I've been wondering about soda stream and if those little C02 cartridges would work, though I wonder about the cost...

I just found the wine preserver! It's a $7 can of gas that certainly would work for beer too:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00IB7PHSE/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Hmmm . I think that's the same stuff my brother n law uses with his wine . Not sure how that would work of purging a fermenter

 

[SRJHops]

Hmmm . I think that's the same stuff my brother n law uses with his wine . Not sure how that would work of purging a fermenter

I'm just purging the headspace above the beer in the fermenter, so I'd think it would work? If you can get a message to your brother in law, I'd be interested in his take.

The wine preserver product appears to be for opened bottles of wine, but I don't see why I couldn't spray some into the top of carboy. I found a can for $6 including tax and shipping, so I'm going to give it a go next time. Maybe drop in a little sugar too, for good measure.

 

[Jag75]

I'm just purging the headspace above the beer in the fermenter, so I'd think it would work? If you can get a message to your brother in law, I'd be interested in his take.

The wine preserver product appears to be for opened bottles of wine, but I don't see why I couldn't spray some into the top of carboy. I found a can for $6 including tax and shipping, so I'm going to give it a go next time. Maybe drop in a little sugar too, for good measure.

Yes he sprays it in the wine bottles. It depends on how much head space you have in the carboy. If it isnt much then it will probably work . It's weird stuff because it feels like there is nothing in the can .

 

[madscientist451]

How about get carboy of beer fermenting and run the blow off tube into the beer with the dry hops?

 

[Jag75]

I'm not sure that stuff in a can is co2 . He said it's some kind of preservative.

 

[day_trippr]

It's a blend of carbon dioxide, nitrogen and argon. Should be benign wrt beer...

Cheers!

 

[Jag75]

It's a blend of carbon dioxide, nitrogen and argon. Should be benign wrt beer...

Cheers!

The op was wondering if it would work to purge fermenter .

 

[day_trippr]

Sure, why not? It allegedly has no O2 in the mix, the three components used are pretty much the opposite of oxidizers, so...

Cheers!

 

[IBRUTOO]

I use a soda stream for purging and force transferring. Just drilled a hole in a bottle and used some 1/8" fittings and tubing. Already had the soda stream and wasn't using it for anything else so now part of my Bottling process.

 

[SRJHops]

I use a soda stream for purging and force transferring. Just drilled a hole in a bottle and used some 1/8" fittings and tubing. Already had the soda stream and wasn't using it for anything else so now part of my Bottling process.

Sweet - thanks for sharing. With all the fizzy water my wife drinks, it might be a good gift for the both of us! Did you have to harm/ruin the soda stream to set it up for purging? Or just one bottle? If you could post a photo that would be great. Thanks!

My can of wine preserver arrived the other day, BTW. I haven't used it yet, but I think it will be a winner. As someone mentioned, it's an odd product because the can doesn't feel like there's anything in it, but of course the gasses don't weigh much!

I'll give it a try soon and report back, though my guess is unless I do get oxidation, it will be hard to PROVE it worked -- but I'll feel better knowing I gave it a try. I think I can get quite a few uses from each can, and for now, $6 beats investing in purchasing Co2 (though I did find a homebrew shop in the suburbs that sells the gas and throws in the tank for free with a deposit).

 

[IBRUTOO]

I did a write up on LODO Bottling here and have a pic/description of the soda stream. Just used a spare sodastream bottle rest of sodastream works as normal.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/neipa-lodo-bottling-success.650561/

 

[JimRausch]

My wine preserver came from Amazon today. Haven't used it yet, and as SRJHops says, how will we know if it works?

 

[Taket_al_Tauro]

My wine preserver came from Amazon today. Haven't used it yet, and as SRJHops says, how will we know if it works?

I'll give it a try soon and report back, though my guess is unless I do get oxidation, it will be hard to PROVE it worked --

Sorry I'm a bit late to the party here, but...I stumbled on this thread and wanted to share my still limited experience with this wine preserver.
I also experimented a bit with it and quickly found out that it isn't a very practical option if you want to purge everything with it, meaning fermener headspace at dry hopping, bottling bucket, and all bottles as well as the bottle headspaces. I don't know what your experiences have been here (would be interested to hear them), but on the first batch I used it, I managed to empty a can and I couldn't even purge all my bottles/headspaces (approx. 7 gal batch size).
For such "large-scale" purging activities, I believe a proper CO2 tank is the only way to go, economically speaking.

I'm actually still using the wine preserver, but I limited myself to only purging the bottle headspaces for my bottle conditioned hoppier beers, since I found this part of the process to have the biggest impact overall.
For that, it works really well and you don't need as much gas. I think you need some kind of bottles that allow you to seal them immediately after the purge, such as flip-top bottles. Not sure it would work just as good when using crown caps and a bottle capper.

I agree it's difficult to prove its effectiveness at dry hopping, since you would need at a minimum to perform a split batch in two different fermenters...and even then...
On the other hand it was very easy to prove its effectiveness in the bottling phase. Just purge the headspace of a few bottles, and do not purge some others. Then do some side-by-side compares over a given timeframe and see the difference. In my case it was striking, at least color-wise.

On the other hand, purging the bottles prior to filling did not have any impact whatsoever, neither on color nor on taste/aroma.
By the same logic I concluded that it would not help much to use it for purging fermenters or bottling buckets during the transfer.

 

[JimRausch]

I received 2 cans back in January and have used them all up. I've used some to top off carboys(mostly mead or wine), after I've filled them to the neck. I also used it to fill the necks of bottles after capping or corking. The 2 cans lasted about 8 batches. Trying to fill a fermenter's airspace or purging a full bucket would probably take a full can.

 

[SRJHops]

Sorry I'm a bit late to the party here, but...I stumbled on this thread and wanted to share my still limited experience with this wine preserver.
I also experimented a bit with it and quickly found out that it isn't a very practical option if you want to purge everything with it, meaning fermener headspace at dry hopping, bottling bucket, and all bottles as well as the bottle headspaces. I don't know what your experiences have been here (would be interested to hear them), but on the first batch I used it, I managed to empty a can and I couldn't even purge all my bottles/headspaces (approx. 7 gal batch size).
For such "large-scale" purging activities, I believe a proper CO2 tank is the only way to go, economically speaking.

I'm actually still using the wine preserver, but I limited myself to only purging the bottle headspaces for my bottle conditioned hoppier beers, since I found this part of the process to have the biggest impact overall.
For that, it works really well and you don't need as much gas. I think you need some kind of bottles that allow you to seal them immediately after the purge, such as flip-top bottles. Not sure it would work just as good when using crown caps and a bottle capper.

I agree it's difficult to prove its effectiveness at dry hopping, since you would need at a minimum to perform a split batch in two different fermenters...and even then...
On the other hand it was very easy to prove its effectiveness in the bottling phase. Just purge the headspace of a few bottles, and do not purge some others. Then do some side-by-side compares over a given timeframe and see the difference. In my case it was striking, at least color-wise.

On the other hand, purging the bottles prior to filling did not have any impact whatsoever, neither on color nor on taste/aroma.
By the same logic I concluded that it would not help much to use it for purging fermenters or bottling buckets during the transfer.

Agree, and I appreciate your thoughts/comments. I would not recommend the wine preserver for purging bottling buckets or for transfers. Of course, if you are purging bottling buckets you are probably fighting a somewhat losing battle to avoid oxygen contact anyway. Better to skip the bottling bucket altogether, especially for hoppy beers and extra-especially for New Englands.

I have used the wine preserver twice so far to purge the fermenter headspace. It is hard to know for sure if it's working, but I feel better using it, and I have not faced (noticeable) oxidation issues.

I haven't used it to purge bottles (I use bombers), though I'd think it could be used for that. I think a better idea, though, is to just reduce the headspace by filling the neck. I haven't done that the last few times, though. But I think if I was looking for more ways to reduce oxygen I would.

Truth is, as you know, there are a ton of ways that oxygen can get in and harm beer. Some folks worry about the oxygen IN their dry hops (so they blast them somehow with gas before dry hopping), and any trub that makes it into the fermenter can also oxidize (I'm told).

I suppose if everything a homebrewer is doing to reduce O2 still results on oxidized beers, then working to eliminate more things is a good challenge.

I do think the CO2 tank is the better option, though. It's just that I don't really have the space to store more beer equipment right now and I don't really want that expense at this point either...

 

[Taket_al_Tauro]

Agree, and I appreciate your thoughts/comments. I would not recommend the wine preserver for purging bottling buckets or for transfers. Of course, if you are purging bottling buckets you are probably fighting a somewhat losing battle to avoid oxygen contact anyway. Better to skip the bottling bucket altogether, especially for hoppy beers and extra-especially for New Englands.

I have used the wine preserver twice so far to purge the fermenter headspace. It is hard to know for sure if it's working, but I feel better using it, and I have not faced (noticeable) oxidation issues.

I haven't used it to purge bottles (I use bombers), though I'd think it could be used for that. I think a better idea, though, is to just reduce the headspace by filling the neck. I haven't done that the last few times, though. But I think if I was looking for more ways to reduce oxygen I would.

Truth is, as you know, there are a ton of ways that oxygen can get in and harm beer. Some folks worry about the oxygen IN their dry hops (so they blast them somehow with gas before dry hopping), and any trub that makes it into the fermenter can also oxidize (I'm told).

I suppose if everything a homebrewer is doing to reduce O2 still results on oxidized beers, then working to eliminate more things is a good challenge.

I do think the CO2 tank is the better option, though. It's just that I don't really have the space to store more beer equipment right now and I don't really want that expense at this point either...

Thank you also for your detailed thoughts. Yes I'm currently in the same situation as you...not willing to invest in a CO2 tank, and also the logical step from that ( a full fledged kegging setup) isn't something I am in the position to get into right now.
So I try to make it work with my poor man bottle conditioning setup as best as I can.
And actually, I've been fairly pleased with my last hoppy beers. But I confess I haven't attempted a true NEIPA yet.

Yes I also read on some other forum about folks filling up their bottles almost to the brim, with seemingly no negative consequence and some very tangible benefits with respect to reducing oxidation in the bottle.
Think I'll give that a go on my next IPA with a few bottles and compare to my by now standard "headspace purging" procedure.
If that works well, It's gonna be indeed much cheaper and more convenient than the Private Preserve.