All in one strike temperature.

[earachemyeye69]

I’m struggling with FG issues and keep coming back to mash temperature. I’ve tried single mash, step mash, at 64c @ 60 mins, 60c 30 mins, 70c 30 mins etc etc etc.
I haven’t done strike temperature at mash in and wonder if it real makes any difference with a grain father or robobrew etc?
PH at 5.4.

 

[doug293cz]

I’m struggling with FG issues and keep coming back to mash temperature. I’ve tried single mash, step mash, at 64c @ 60 mins, 60c 30 mins, 70c 30 mins etc etc etc.
I haven’t done strike temperature at mash in and wonder if it real makes any difference with a grain father or robobrew etc?
PH at 5.4.

Need more information:

• Recipe?
• Have you verified temperature accuracy?
• Yeast?
• Fermentation temp and time?
• Process details?
• Equipment details?
• OG and FG?

Brew on

 

[earachemyeye69]

Yes all the above.
Does strike temp matter with an all in one since the temp is maintained throughout the mash?
Note it one photo says mash in at 69c but I only mash in at the desired temp and skip the strike temp.

 

[jpitz31]

How are you measuring your final gravity, refractometer or hydrometer? At what temp are you measuring your final gravity? Are you compensating for temp?

All of your temps and numbers look good.

If you are using a refactormeter you have to calculate from the original gravity as the alcohol in the beer will give a too high reading. Looking at your numbers, that it the first thing that it appears to be.

There is a section in Beer Smith/Brewfather that allows you to enter original gravity and final Brix, that will then calculate the proper final gravity.

If you are brewing according to your given numbers, everything looks good.

Are you using new yeast or re-using yeast? Are you aerating your wort when first placed in the fermenter? Are you seeing visible co2 bubbling for the first few days? Might also be stuck fermentation.

Hard to tell with no further data.

Thanks

Joe

 

[wepeeler]

Strike temp is literally the water temp used to create the mash. It's always warmer than your mash temp, since the grain will drop the temp of the strike water. In the US that temp is 146-156F for a single infusion mash. Strike temp depends on your system. Water volume and grain temp are probably the most important factors. Warmer = less fermentables = higher FG. Cooler = more fermentables = lower FG. Yeast attentuation % also comes into play, but that's a characteristic of the yeast and not the strike/mash temp.

What "issues" are you having with your FG?

64C is good for a very fermentable beer. 60C is too low. 70C is a touch high. 64-67C is probably your best comfort zone.

 

[earachemyeye69]

How are you measuring your final gravity, refractometer or hydrometer? At what temp are you measuring your final gravity? Are you compensating for temp?

All of your temps and numbers look good.

If you are using a refactormeter you have to calculate from the original gravity as the alcohol in the beer will give a too high reading. Looking at your numbers, that it the first thing that it appears to be.

There is a section in Beer Smith/Brewfather that allows you to enter original gravity and final Brix, that will then calculate the proper final gravity.

If you are brewing according to your given numbers, everything looks good.

Are you using new yeast or re-using yeast? Are you aerating your wort when first placed in the fermenter? Are you seeing visible co2 bubbling for the first few days? Might also be stuck fermentation.

Hard to tell with no further data.

Thanks

Joe

I’ve got both digital and and optical. The digital has temp offset.
Yeah it’s all good. Just asking about the strike temp. Does it matter?
Yeast is good. New. Etc. the Voss burns through quickly.
Anyway it’s multiple batches. Different yeast, styles et.

 

[wepeeler]

I’ve got both digital and and optical. The digital has temp offset.
Yeah it’s all good. Just asking about the strike temp. Does it matter?
Yeast is good. New. Etc. the Voss burns through quickly.
Anyway it’s multiple batches. Different yeast, styles et.

Strike temp determines mash temp, so yes, it does matter. For example, in my system, if I want to mash in at 148F, I need to heat strike water to 151-152 on a hot summer day. If I shoot too low for strike water temp, the mash temp will be too low. If I shoot too high, I'll get less fermentables. So it's a balancing game.

You need to figure out what style you want to make, what FG you're shooting for and then determine strike temp.

 

[Noob_Brewer]

I have a foundry AIO system...Strike temp, grain temp both matter in terms of what the mash temp is for the first ~10-20minutes after doughing in. IMHO the first 20-30 minutes DO matter in terms of where your mash lands depending on strike water and grain temps. For the foundry, the temp probe is at the bottom near dip tube which isn't an ideal temp in the middle of the mash. So I always measure the top with a thermapen as well after doughing in and about 10 minutes after doughing in. You are correct in assuming that these AIO systems recirculate to maintain mash temps but it can take a little while ie 10-15minutes before the anvil (bottom probe) and the top temp (thermapen) stabilize together. conversion does happen quickly too so getting the proper strike temp does matter in how the mash initially lands for the initial temp for the mash.

EDIT: I will add that if you are targeting a certain FG, hitting the correct mash temps from the start is important but is one piece of the puzzle. pH, yeast health/pitch rate etc also help in determining FG as well. So are your FGs ending too high or low?

EDIT2: I see in your third pic you exceeded your OG of 1.050 to reach 1.055 but your FG was high 1.023 vs the target of 1.009. This could certainly lead one to believe your initial mash temp was indeed high, but also if your yeast health wasn't right (pitch rate?) or other factors could affect this as well. A 51% AA is indeed quite low. It would help to know how exactly you are measuring your mash temps and where that probe(s) is located. DO you track mash temps throughout the mash? With AIOs, it would be helpful to know how and where you measured mash temps after doughing in and at about 10-15minutes afterwards.

 

[IslandLizard]

If I shoot too high, I'll get too many fermentables.

Uhm... fewer fermentables (=less fermentable) when mash temp is higher.

 

[wepeeler]

Uhm... fewer fermentables (=less fermentable) when mash temp is higher.

Whoops. Fixed

 

[jpitz31]

Agreed, Since your post boil gravity is 1.055 is a good indication that your mash temp is ok, the slightly higher gravity could be due to boil off evaporation. As @IslandLizard indicated if your mash temp was too high your post boil gravity would be lower than target. You would be killing off the enzymes, and starch conversion process.

So I would try to focus on fermentation issues.

 

[IslandLizard]

I’ve got both digital and and optical. The digital has temp offset.

That points to refractometers, they come in both digital and optical.

When you're using a refractometer when alcohol is present, the reading is skewed. This is because alcohol has a much higher refractive index than sugar water.

To get to the correct final gravity (FG), you must use a calculator, such as this one:
https://www.brewersfriend.com/refractometer-calculator/
Use Part II of the calculator for this, by inputting the OG 13.6 Brix (= 1.055 SG) as well as the current (uncorrected) FG reading of 5.8 Brix (= 1.023 SG).
That yields:
FG - Corrected: 1.14 °P or 1.004 SG
Alcohol By Volume: 6.71%

Big difference and likely solves the problem.

 

[earachemyeye69]

That points to refractometers, they come in both digital and optical.

When you're using a refractometer when alcohol is present, the reading is skewed. This is because alcohol has a much higher refractive index than sugar water.

To get to the correct final gravity (FG), you must use a calculator, such as this one:
https://www.brewersfriend.com/refractometer-calculator/
Use Part II of the calculator for this, by inputting the OG 13.6 Brix (= 1.055 SG) as well as the current (uncorrected) FG reading of 5.8 Brix (= 1.023 SG).
That yields:
FG - Corrected: 1.14 °P or 1.004 SG
Alcohol By Volume: 6.71%

Big difference and likely solves the problem.

You’re a hero

 

[IslandLizard]

Glad we've solved your puzzle.

When homebrewing, making wine, etc., it's not a luxury to own a (sugar) hydrometer and a dedicated (tall) test jar/tube. Yes, you'll use 3-5 oz of your beverage for that, but it also gives you a drinkable sample, for, uhm, quality control and educational purposes. $10-15 will set you up.

The gravity readings will be mostly direct, but use a calculator if the sample temperature is very different from the one the hydrometer is calibrated at, which is usually 60°F, but double check.

I find the simpler looking ones, with a plain white scale, the best and easiest to read. No color bands or other confusing markings you don't need.
You'd only need a Brix scale but the often accompanying SG scale is very handy. The "potential alcohol" scale that often comes with them is OK for wine and mead, but useless for most beer. The wider the sub-divisions (0.002 SG) the easier to read. They make hydrometers for final gravity readings, but they tend to be much pricier.

Hydrometers are fragile instruments, made of very thin glass with a substantial weight in the bottom. So handle them with care and never lie them on a (smooth) surface, without a towel underneath, they'll roll off to an untimely demise.

 

[oakbarn]

We have found that if we add 2 degree F to our Strike that the Mash might be 1 degree high after Mash In. It quickly cools to the desired Mash Temp (a couple of minutes, five at the most). It is very easy to "cool" wort but almost impossible to "heat" it in a short time. We use a modified HERM with a counterflow as the Water Bath (Wort on the Inner tube, Hot water Bath on the outer tube). We have a couple of Temp Probes (one at the Mash Return and one at the Mash Tun Outlet. They stabilize together after a few minutes of recycling IF we have obtained the Mash or + 1 or so at Mash in.

If we are low, it takes forever.

So I would say Strike is very important to obtain and maintain your Mash even if you have an automated system.

 

[earachemyeye69]

Yeah I made a batch of rice lager today and took this advice. In at 68c then 64 for 45 minutes followed by 70 for 30 minutes.

Thanks everyone for your help and experienced wisdom

 

[earachemyeye69]

Broke out $8.00 and picked one up today. 1.00-1.100

 

[IslandLizard]

Broke out $8.00 and picked one up today. 1.00-1.100

That's very nice one too!

Remember, hydrometers are very, very fragile. So take utter care to handle it gently. No shaking off clinging water drops! Just be careful when drying it and such.

 

[oakbarn]

It is nice to have a coupl. I like to have a Final Hydrometer ( reads up to 1.020 only so easy to see the final gravity.