All grain brewing cost

[epistrummer]

Once you are set up for all grain brewing, how much if any cost savings is there when buying ingredients? Should I consider buying in bulk?

I just brewed my first batch and I think I'm addicted to this hobby already.

 

[buffalobrewer]

yes, buy in bulk if you can. your base grain goes down to about $.50/lb, add in a couple bucks worth of specialty grains, wash yeast, and you can get down to about $10/5 gallon batch. Of course, it takes a couple hours longer to brew a batch.

 

[rvklein]

If you participate in group buys of bulk grain you can make 10 ABV super hoppy beers for .50 a pint. Lagers for .10 a pint.

 

[CidCitrus]

Even if you don't buy in bulk you will still probably save around 10 dollars a batch over extract.

 

[phenry]

I buy my base grain and (usually) hops in bulk and have slants of just about all the yeast strains I commonly use. As far as ingredients and utilities go, a typical 5 gallon batch usually runs me maybe $20 when everything's said and done (that's including estimated cost of propane, water, mineral additions, DME for starters, etc...). Specialty grains or hops I don't buy in bulk are what usually run up the bill the most, since those are typically $2 per pound (or ounce in the case of hops).

 

[Bobby_M]

If you just look at the cost of fermentables, the cheapest bulk DME is about 2.10 a pound and grain is about .60/lb. The extract potential is different obviously. 6 pounds of DME ($12.60) is good for 5 gallons of 1.054. To get the same gravity using grain, assuming 70% effeciency, is just under 10 pounds ($6).

So, a 5 gallon batch of 1.054 wort is $6 cheaper. A 10 gallon batch of 1.100 is $24 cheaper. Depending on your energy source, there is a loss of savings due to a slightly larger hot water requirement. It may actually be close to a wash if you pay a lot for propane. It would actually be more expensive if you pay yourself $5 an hour. Of course, most brewers find the process of all grain more rewarding no matter how you look it.

It's often that folks will compare the retail, single batch cost of DME to the bulk sack price of grain when comparing the costs and that's not really apples to apples. You can get 50 pound boxes of DME in bulk too.

 

[Jayhem]

I'm saving about $5 per batch doing AG instead of partial mash.

I do AG more because I enjoy the process more and think the beer tastes better then extract brews. There is nothing that smells better than a nice fresh mash!

 

[TyTanium]

For the record, homebrewing doesn't save you money. 95% of homebrewers admit this and the other 5% are probably lying.

 

[TopherM]

I just bought a 50lb bag of two-row for $42.00 and a 55lb bag of pilsner for $50.00.

Saturday, I brewed a 6 gallon batch of Hefewiezen for about $5.45 for the 6lbs of pilsner, about $8.34 for 6 lbs of white wheat (not bulk), $6.99 for a Wyeast 3068 pack, and $2.25 for 1.25 oz of Hallertau hops.

So that's $21.11 for a 6 gallon batch, or about $0.32 a beer.

I could have gotten this $$$ down closer to $13.00 if I harvested the yeast from a previous batch and bought the hops in bulk, but I'm a bit too lazy to harvest yeast and don't really want to store a pound of Hallertau, so $21.11 is not too bad!

 

[Jayhem]

For the record, homebrewing doesn't save you money. 95% of homebrewers admit this and the other 5% are probably lying.

That depends on a LOT of factors:

1. what quanity of beer do you normally consume

2. what was your total equipment costs

3. What kind of beer and at what price did you used to buy store bought brews? If the answer to this is "I only bought the $50/case imports before" then YES homebrewing will start saving you money in no time!

Craft beer in my area costs $15-18 for a 12-bottle case! That's $66 for 48 bottles! I can brew homebrew for $17-$30 for 50 bottles depending on style. The SWMBO and I drink about 48 bottles per month on average so I save about $42/month on beer cost. In just 1 year I save $504 on beer because I homebrew. I have invested about $500 in my equipment and the rest have been gifts. Once you have the main equipment you can get by without much more equipment cost for years. My up-front equipment cost will be saved in the first year of homebrewing. Score!

I can safely say that YES, homebrewing saves you money. :rockin:

 

[ReverseApacheMaster]

For the record, homebrewing doesn't save you money. 95% of homebrewers admit this and the other 5% are probably lying.

My system is cheap and very hands on. I use the stove as much as possible over propane. I wash yeast and buy in bulk. I only bottle and I don't have any fancy corkers. My mill is a $25 corona knock off. I don't make hoppy beers. I still cool wort with a water bath. I still use the same bucket I started with three years ago. No glass carboys. No fermentation chamber. No pumps, electric systems, etc. I don't give out a lot of beer (not being stingy, I don't give out bad batches or the very best unless I know it will be appreciated).

So yeah, I do save money. If I bought a lot of the things I want it would definitely take years of brewing to get those costs back, if I really focused on the money issue. And by then I would want to buy more stuff/replace worn equipment.

To the OP's question, brewing AG is cheaper than extract as long as you keep your equipment simple. The problem is you might want to develop a more elaborate set up. That's when it turns into a money pit.

 

[TyTanium]

Adverse selection. The ones who take exception to my post are the ones to respond. Not saying it's not possible, just that it's not probable. n=2 isn't enough to convince me otherwise. PS - I'm impressed that you save money homebrewing, well done.

 

[eastoak]

For the record, homebrewing doesn't save you money. 95% of homebrewers admit this and the other 5% are probably lying.

my guess is that this is mostly true, it would be interesting to see a poll that every member of this board responded to so that the sample would be larger than the respondents to this thread. of course saving money is relative to what you drink; Bud vs Russian River vs Belgian (or other european craft imports) vs Sierra Nevada. we buy a lot of belgian sour beer, no american macro brew, and very little american craft beer.

 

[Bobby_M]

The question had nothing to do with whether brewing saves money. It was specific to the economy involved in all grain brewing. It's a bit of a catch 22. All grain, from a raw materials and consumables perspective can be very cheap when buying grain in bulk but it also begs for an investment in a $140 grain mill. The breakeven, even in a very conservative minimalist set of gear, is at least 20 batches. Again, the choice to go all grain should not be tied to economics. It's just more fun.

I doubt people buy $1000 worth of Russian River beers in a year, but I know plenty of brewers who have spent over that in boilermaker pots.

Please don't let this thread go into the Brewing = Cheaper Beer debate. It's stupid. Choose your process based on what kind of experience you want to have. If you want to get fancy beer that you cannot currently afford, take some overtime hours or get a better job.

 

[TyTanium]

...the choice to go all grain should not be tied to economics. It's just more fun.

Please don't let this thread go into the Brewing = Cheaper Beer debate. It's stupid.

Agreed. That was my point in posting, though apparently wasn't clear.

 

[gingerdawg]

If you just look at the cost of fermentables, the cheapest bulk DME is about 2.10 a pound and grain is about .60/lb. The extract potential is different obviously. 6 pounds of DME ($12.60) is good for 5 gallons of 1.054. To get the same gravity using grain, assuming 70% effeciency, is just under 10 pounds ($6).

So, a 5 gallon batch of 1.054 wort is $6 cheaper. A 10 gallon batch of 1.100 is $24 cheaper. Depending on your energy source, there is a loss of savings due to a slightly larger hot water requirement. It may actually be close to a wash if you pay a lot for propane. It would actually be more expensive if you pay yourself $5 an hour. Of course, most brewers find the process of all grain more rewarding no matter how you look it.

It's often that folks will compare the retail, single batch cost of DME to the bulk sack price of grain when comparing the costs and that's not really apples to apples. You can get 50 pound boxes of DME in bulk too.

This is a pretty accurate breakdown of the REAL cost differences.
I did the above example with the bulk prices I can get from my LHBS, without having to buy online and ship 50 lbs of anything. Thing is, my LHBSs are Northern Brewer and Midwest
I get 50 lbs grain for $36 and 50 lbs DME for $135. That makes the grain $0.72/lb or $7.20 for the above 1.054 batch. The DME is 2.70/lb and 16.20 for the above 1.054 batch. so my savings, before aditional propane costs (assuming full boil and mash and sparge heating for AG and partial boil for the extract)are 9 bucks. I prolly spend about $4.00 for propane for the avg AG and about half that for an extract partial boil.

 

[Bobby_M]

I think it's safe to say that for any given batch, extract costs 200% more for the fermentables. That translates equally to non bulk purchasing such as $1.50 /lb average for milled grain and $3.50 a pound for say 3lb bags of DME.

Again, you have to make sure you're comparing apples to apples. You can't compare buying an extract kit with a new $7 vial of yeast and hops by the ounce to a bulk buy of grain, a pound of hopsdirect hops, and a 3rd generation of washed yeast. It's BS.

 

[solbes]

I buy 50lb sacks of Rahr 2 row for 36 from Midwest or Northern Brewer. I wash and store my yeast strains. I heat strike water on stove and use propane for boiling (10+ brews / 20 lb cylinder). I can make an average IBU 1.052 brew for $15, or a hoppy/higher gravity for 20 (48 beers). Compare that against the $15-20 I would normally spend on a twelve pack of commercial brew.

After you get through the first year, you are definitely saving money. Liquor tax alone is pretty high in MN and my ingredients are tax free (considered food). So I'm brewing for about double the cost of tax alone that I would pay commercially.

12 batches a year and I'm saving 500-600 per year. Figure total spend on cheap AG equipment, fermentation stuff, and a 2 keg setup was around $600-700.

 

[BrewinHooligan]

Adverse selection. The ones who take exception to my post are the ones to respond. Not saying it's not possible, just that it's not probable. n=2 isn't enough to convince me otherwise. PS - I'm impressed that you save money homebrewing, well done.

I too am an exception to the rule. I have very basic equipment and keep my equipment cost low so I can spend on ingredients. I brew on my stove in a $20 8 gallon pot and mash in a cooler I had laying around and converted for $15. Another $15 for an Ale Pail and air-lock, $7 for a hydrometer and I was in business. My batches cost me between $20-$25 depending on the grain bill, yeast, and hops I use so it won't take long for me to re-coup my equipment cost even compared to $20/case BMC. If I went nuts with equipment, throw all that savings out the window.

To the OP's question, grains are cheaper than extract if you are getting decent efficiency, even if you don't buy in bulk. But the equipment cost can easily blow away the savings if you let it.

 

[Jayhem]

I buy 50lb sacks of Rahr 2 row for 36 from Midwest or Northern Brewer. I wash and store my yeast strains. I heat strike water on stove and use propane for boiling (10+ brews / 20 lb cylinder). I can make an average IBU 1.052 brew for $15, or a hoppy/higher gravity for 20 (48 beers). Compare that against the $15-20 I would normally spend on a twelve pack of commercial brew.

After you get through the first year, you are definitely saving money. Liquor tax alone is pretty high in MN and my ingredients are tax free (considered food). So I'm brewing for about double the cost of tax alone that I would pay commercially.

12 batches a year and I'm saving 500-600 per year. Figure total spend on cheap AG equipment, fermentation stuff, and a 2 keg setup was around $600-700.

Your consumption and savings figures are almost identical to what my personal findings.

If you are not saving money by homebrewing you are either A. overzealous on your equipment purchases, or B. a light drinker

 

[TopherM]

Don't forget, there's also the "collateral" damage of homebrewing!

I have found that since I have been homebrewing, my tastes in beer, a.k.a. beersnobbery, has gotten more extensive and expensive.

Call it homebrewing research, but I never bought Belgian Quads, Winter Warmers, Barleywines, Meads, Lambics, Sours, etc.....all particularly pricey styles of beer.....before I started brewing. Now that list reads more like a Sunday afternoon.

Since I've started brewing, I also rarely visit the local watering hole with the ## beers on tap, because those ## beers are typically BMC varieties masquerading as craft brew. No thanks.

So, my typical pre-brewing days Friday night trip for two $10.00 buckets or pitchers is now more like a Friday night trip to hang out with the fellow brewsnobberers trying desparately to find beers we've never had before to the tune of $100.00 bar tabs.

Oh, and don't get me started on my vacations, which are now all planned around brewery tours!

Homebrewing might be a money-saving venture on BREWDAY, but the lifestyle surely gets you in the end, pun intended!

Saying taking up homebrewing saves you money on beer is like saying buying an RV saves you money on hotel rooms....or buying a Harley saves you on gas.......lol

Rationalization is a b**ch. A small price to pay for such a rewarding hobby, though!

 

[dbrewski]

The breakeven, even in a very conservative minimalist set of gear, is at least 20 batches. Again, the choice to go all grain should not be tied to economics. It's just more fun.

Yes, and while some here with amazing self control and laser-like focus can force themselves to stay with exactly the same cheap pot they bought ten years ago, most of us like to try new things, new equipment, techniques, bigger batches, you name it. Even if we build it ourselves that adds up to a lot of home depot receipts. There's always something to spend money on, and you do it because it's cool and you enjoy it and you're trying to get better. I'd file this under "hobby" not "huge savings".

Although I haven't had to buy a $9 six pack in a long time...:rockin:

 

[passedpawn]

I've dumped some clams on bling. Some serious bling. But I do justify (heh) because never drink out, and I rarely buy beer (except for calibrators like TopherM mentioned. All things considered, the savings probably haven't caught up with total expenditures, and they might not for a while after I build my RIMS.

But the beer itself is so cheap to make for me that I won't even get into the math - it's unreal.

• I buy sacks of grain from a local microbrewery off their pallets. Very cheap.
• Yeast is free (renewable resource!). I do occasionally buy a strain for a special beer, but I save every strain and rebuild when they get old.
• Water is (nearly) free,
• Hops come by the pound from Hopsdirect once a year, cheap.
• I don't use propane (electric - approx $0.75 for a 10g batch).
• Chilling water comes from my pool and returns there as well, so free.
• I even have oranges and other citrus on my property, so for wits/wheats free.

 

[Gameface]

Well, compared to the stories here I'm an exception to the rule...in that I spend WAY more overall for homebrew than I would, even if I only bought premium beers from the state run liquor store (Utah). I have a 15g Blichmann HLT and a 20g Blichmann boil kettle. I have 9 pepsi kegs. I have two 5.2cuft chest freezers, each with a Ranco temp controller for fermentation chambers. I have a 7.2cuft chest freezer with a 10lb CO2 tank and three Perlick taps, with micromatic primary regulator then dual secondary feeding a 2-way manifold and a 3-way manifold. I have 2 plate filters. I have a counter pressure bottle filler. I have a 50ft 1/2" wort chiller. it goes on and on.

I like gear! I spend more collecting gear than making beer.

 

[barneygumble]

Lights, please!

I think the important thing here has been mentioned. You can only compare the cost savings of the fermentables themselves. Extract brewers can buy hops from hopsdirect. Extract brewers can reclaim and resource yeast. Extract brewers can use the same water saving and water reclaiming sources. Or not.

And when it comes to the fermentables, comparing single unit kit pricing for extracts vs bulk purchases for grains is bogus. Extracts are sold in bulk too, and can come in at under $2/lb when purchased this way. Extract brewers can form group purchases to take advantage of this savings too. And dont forget the conversion factors for needed grain vs needed extracts for a recipe. Add the extra propane use into this equation and the savings are cut into considerably. Put any value on the brewer's time, and the extra couple of hours pushes the scales as all grain is more expensive.

Its not about money saved. Never has been. Thats a cover and a ruse to sell the need for new swag to the swmbo (its great for that, btw. ). Its not about quality. Nowadays a careful extract brewer can make great beer too. Its about control of the whole process, and to enjoy all aspects of the hobby. Its about being a personal brewery, duplicating many of the same aspects that the pro's observe to consistently produce the highest quality brews.

And thats what all grain is all about, Charlie Brown.

*takes blanket and walks off stage*

 

[passedpawn]

Lights, please!

I think the important thing here has been mentioned. You can only compare the cost savings of the fermentables themselves. Extract brewers can buy hops from hopsdirect. Extract brewers can reclaim and resource yeast. Extract brewers can use the same water saving and water reclaiming sources. Or not.

And when it comes to the fermentables, comparing single unit kit pricing for extracts vs bulk purchases for grains is bogus. Extracts are sold in bulk too, and can come in at under $2/lb when purchased this way. Extract brewers can form group purchases to take advantage of this savings too. And dont forget the conversion factors for needed grain vs needed extracts for a recipe. Add the extra propane use into this equation and the savings are cut into considerably. Put any value on the brewer's time, and the extra couple of hours pushes the scales as all grain is more expensive.

Its not about money saved. Never has been. Thats a cover and a ruse to sell the need for new swag to the swmbo (its great for that, btw. ). Its not about quality. Nowadays a careful extract brewer can make great beer too. Its about control of the whole process, and to enjoy all aspects of the hobby. Its about being a personal brewery, duplicating many of the same aspects that the pro's observe to consistently produce the highest quality brews.

And thats what all grain is all about, Charlie Brown.

*takes blanket and walks off stage*

Mmmm, CB Christmas. They don't make them like that anymore (It's the Great Pumpkin CB was a good one too). Ok, please resume. Good grief.

 

[turketron]

One of my friends who gave me my first taste of homebrewing put it this way: Most people have one primary hobby that they spend some amount of money on- electronics, cooking, woodworking, you name it- they all have some costs associated with them. Many of these people also spend money on beer/alcohol. If I can make my primary hobby also be my primary source of beer, then I'm still saving money versus spending the same amount of money on a completely different hobby and still having to purchase all my beer.

 

[corkybstewart]

For the record, homebrewing doesn't save you money. 95% of homebrewers admit this and the other 5% are probably lying.

I gotta disagree completely, if you stick with it. It may take a couple of years to recoup equipment costs but after that it's much cheaper.

I buy malt for $.50 per pound, hops are $10-15 per pound. So on a 10 gallon batch that takes 20 pounds of base malt and say 6 ozs of hops I spend maybe $16. Add a couple of pounds of specialty malts at $1.5, and a package of dry yeast for $4 and I'm under $25 in ingredients for 10 gallons of beer, throw in $3 for propane, $3 for water, and a couple of bucks for cleaning/sanitizing and I've still only spent around $30. Now lets go to the store and buy 5 cases of Moose Drool at $25 per case. That's $125, or about $95 more than my homebrewed version.
I have probably spent $2000 on brewing equipment, but I've been brewing for 20 years-$100 per year. If I average 100 gallons per year(a low figure) it's still only $10 per batch, or around $40 per 10 gallons(5 cases).
Now lets go to the bar and buy 120 bottles of beer at $4-7 and see how much less expensive brewing and drinking at home are.

 

[djt17]

One of my friends who gave me my first taste of homebrewing put it this way: Most people have one primary hobby that they spend some amount of money on- electronics, cooking, woodworking, you name it- they all have some costs associated with them. Many of these people also spend money on beer/alcohol. If I can make my primary hobby also be my primary source of beer, then I'm still saving money versus spending the same amount of money on a completely different hobby and still having to purchase all my beer.

MY feelings exactly...My previous hobbies were much more expensive; fishing & golfing. (and then you still have to buy the beer!)

 

[TyTanium]

I gotta disagree completely, if you stick with it. It may take a couple of years to recoup equipment costs but after that it's much cheaper.

I agree 100%. And that's exactly why I said what I did - because 95% certainly and 5% probably fail that assumption.
n=1 does not disprove. Again, I'm not trying to argue with your math - I don't doubt your case. It's just rare and the overwhelming exception. Thought it was relevant and didn't intend for it to go OT. Sorry OP, my bad.