All extracts have a similar taste?

[slym2none]

I will say, I used extract for a while, and had just a few batches with "extract twang". Funny that some say it is "process", when I did all the things listed above that the one guy did to get rid of his "twang" except making starters, but that's because I use dry yeasts - always hydrated, and I well-aerated the wort.

*shrug*

 

[DreBourbon]

The no boil extract kits have no grains to steep.

 

[ericbw]

I think we need to stop talking about "extract twang." It is not a descriptor of anything you can taste or really describe. It's just a term for "this tastes weird, but I'm not sure what it is." If it's salty, sour, sweet, or bitter, then say that. If it tastes moldy or musty, that's a good descriptor. Funky is even a good descriptor because we can reference other funky things (cheese, etc.).

I think the problem is when people are new to brewing, they do all kinds of things that cause undesirable flavors. Some are related to the extract, like adding it at the 60 minute mark, using stale ingredients, etc. Or it is cheap yeast that throws bad aromas OR doesn't attenuate all the way. Or maybe it's temperature - even "good" yeast like S-04 is gross if you go over 70 degrees.

So you make extract beer and it's bad. But you fix things here and there, and you get better, and then you move to all grain, and after that, you've really fine tuned your process, and the beer is better.

You say, "When I made extract beer, it was bad. Now that I make AG, its good." But that might be backwards. Maybe it is more like, "When I made bad beer, it was extract. Now that I make good beer, it is all grain." You got better, and you can probably make better extract beer now.

Of course, some of you can taste the extract difference.

But again, "extract twang" doesn't describe what it is you're tasting. And new brewers repeat that term because it sounds like it should be the right term. "This tastes twangy" tells you nothing about how it tastes.

End of my rant!

 

[DreBourbon]

I'm pretty sure as an adult I can use any word I want. TWANG! Are you home with me when I make my beers? How do you know my process? Ps. Twangy twang twang.

 

[ericbw]

I'm pretty sure as an adult I can use any word I want. TWANG! Are you home with me when I make my beers? How do you know my process? Ps. Twangy twang twang.

I agree 100%. When you are an adult, you can use whatever word you want. Until then…

I don't have to be home with you when you brew beer to know if it is a good description or not. And it doesn't matter what your process is. No matter the process, that's still not a good descriptor.

Did you have a different point?

 

[dmtaylor]

Twang is real. Sorry to those who disagree, but you'd be flat out wrong. It is real, and thousands of homebrewers know this, it's not just me.

I'll just leave this here, in case it might help someone. Paste image into Word in landscape, then print and laminate if desired.

 

[seabrew8]

Extract beer has a HUGE "twang" taste compared to all grain in my experience.

Partial mashing with extract is much better IME but AG has been by far the best beer i've made. Of course, not all batchs are "winners".

 

[DreBourbon]

Twangy twang twang!!

 

[ericbw]

Well, if there's a handout, I guess...

 

[rsfc]

AG is also cheaper than extract.

*thumbsup*

Depends, doesn't it? I mean it's an investment in more equipment and it seems to me like AG takes a lot more time. So if your time is of no value...

 

[dmtaylor]

Depends, doesn't it? I mean it's an investment in more equipment and it seems to me like AG takes a lot more time. So if your time is of no value...

Why more equipment? BIAB is dirt cheap. Also can go real quick -- you only really need to mash for 40 minutes, only need to boil for probably about the same 30-45 minutes, also you don't always need to brew 5 gallons -- what if you only brew 2 gallons? That saves time as well. There are certainly things that can be done to make the day go quicker. My time is valuable, so that's why I do all these things. I also want to drink the best beer possible and have the most control over the end product, and not leave it up to an extract manufacturer and a homebrew shop to control the quality and freshness of the extract. It's pretty quick and easy to make your own "extract", especially with BIAB and small batch brewing. Small batch size optional of course.

 

[ericbw]

It doesn't have to be an either/or proposition. I sometimes do extract batches because it is faster and simpler (less set up and clean up).

All grain is definitely cheaper, but definitely takes more time. It just depends on what you're in the mood for.

 

[slym2none]

Depends, doesn't it? I mean it's an investment in more equipment and it seems to me like AG takes a lot more time. So if your time is of no value...

The ingredients for all-grain v/s an extract beer of the same recipe will cost you less money.

Plus, know how much I have invested in my BIAB setup? $15. That's right, $15. $12 for a 4-gallon pot & $3.50 for the bag from my LHBS. Add tax, it's around $15. If you count the hydrometer, that's another $10, but everyone has one of these, if not a refractometer (which costs even more!) so I don't really count that.

It definitely takes more time. I won't argue that. I do take a little offense at the line "if your time has no value", as lots of people go AG. Are you telling so many people that they are wasting their time? Regardless, most of us don't put a $ value on our time when brewing beer, as it's a hobby.

 

[DreBourbon]

It's worth the time. If you can't dedicate time to your hobby then you shouldn't be doing it.

 

[rcreamer0713]

It's worth the time. If you can't dedicate time to your hobby then you shouldn't be doing it.

Sorry but i find this horrible. If u cant dedicate time to your hobby stop doing it? Thats horrible advice.

I work. Volenteer firefighter. Own a home. And im in the national guard and college student. Time to me is important. I dont have time to spend everyday home brewing. I try to homebrew everysunday or atleast do something home brewing. But sometimes it dont happen.

Seems pointless but a hobby is something u do with free time to relax. If its 30minutes or 5 hours. Its your time and your hobby. Dont be telling people if they dont have time to quit being a home brewer. Thats the single worst piece of advice i have seen on amy forum.

 

[dmtaylor]

Okay.... let's everybody take a step back.... close your eyes.... take a deep breath..... hold it in for a moment...... empty your thoughts...... think about where you would love to go on vacation..... is it camping in the hills? A beach in the Carribbean? Don't you just love puppies? Now breathe out...... then take another deep breath............

 

[moors]

I have been enjoying the ease and convenience of extract brewing, and haven't noticed a detrimental effect on the quality of my brews.

The most important flavor/taste consideration is YEAST SELECTION and FERMENTATION CONTROL. I have found the single most contributory element is the yeast selection and controlling the fermentation process for that particular yeast. Controlling the fermentation process includes variables such as water type (extract brews perform best with RO or soft water) and temperature. For example, my Hefeweizen turned out a little "boring" because the first week of fermentation was at 64°F instead of 74-76°F. The yeast settled out too fast and became a Kristallweizen. I happily drank it anyway, it was a great beer, but it wouldn't have won a prize for compliance to the Hefeweizen style. As part of the process, underpitching and fermenting warm the Wyeast 3068 Weihenstephan Weizen is said to contribute more of the Hefeweizen style "banana and clove" characteristics. I had made a starter batch, which was actually counterproductive! I had pitched too much. I should have simply pitched the Wyeast package. So pay attention to the yeast process for the specific style and yeast you have chosen!

Other examples were my experience with Imperial Yeast A20 Citrus (it needed slightly elevated temperatures to encourage the flavor profile, turned out fantastic) and Wyeast American Ale II (accidentally fermented too cold and the yeast flocculated too fast). My next brew is using the Imperial Yeast B64 Napoleon, which is a "non-standard" for an ale yeast, and requires special consideration of the fermentation temperature to achieve the correct flavor profile.

In summary, regardless of DME, LME, or all-grain, I have found the most significant non-hop flavor profile is dominated by the yeast selection, pitching and fermentation process, and fermentation temperature.

 

[dmtaylor]

All great points, moors.

 

[ericbw]

It's worth the time. If you can't dedicate time to your hobby then you shouldn't be doing it.

I have made absolute sh*t beer from grain. That was not worth the time.

I've made some really good beer from extract. That was definitely worth the additional cost.

 

[rsfc]

It wasn't my intention to upset people. All I was getting at is that I include time in my estimation of value. Your time is worth something. Of course we brew because we enjoy it but some of us have more time to spend on this hobby than others.

Now I want to understand this BIAB in a small pot idea. I've been avoiding it as I thought I needed a larger pot. Mine pot is 7.5 gallon. I thought that was too small.

 

[DreBourbon]

Lol. Go have a Coors light and chill out.

 

[myelo]

Now I want to understand this BIAB in a small pot idea. I've been avoiding it as I thought I needed a larger pot. Mine pot is 7.5 gallon. I thought that was too small.

I do BIAB in a 7.5 gallon pot on my stove top (but I've got a big ass propane stove). It works fine for up to 10-12 pound of grain. The biggest I've done was 15 pounds (a 1.076 OG IPA) -- that was not fun. I would much rather have a 10 gallon pot for beers that big.

 

[mongoose33]

Depends, doesn't it? I mean it's an investment in more equipment and it seems to me like AG takes a lot more time. So if your time is of no value...

It all just depends on how we wish to invest or spend our time. There isn't a right answer, except as is appropriate for each of us. If it's hard to find more than a 3-hour time block in which you can be pretty certain of no interruptions, then that's how it is.

If you are pressed for time, then extract may be the only way. And if it produces beer you like to drink, it's a win.

I've just switched to all-grain, and I'm working to find ways to reduce the time spent. But there are inescapable time sinks I probably can't reduce much. Just bringing 5 gallons of water to 170 degrees takes time. Then there's preheating the mash tun. Then doughing in, and then waiting an hour. Then draining the mash tun, mixing in more water for a batch sparge, then draining again.

I'm thinking that's 2 full hours right there if everything goes right. Then bringing to a boil, then boiling for an hour--probably another 90 minutes. Then racking to the primary, and cleaning up--at least an hour, maybe 90 minutes.

By my count, that's 5 hours to do an all-grain. And it'll probably take longer because Murphy was an optimist.

Why on earth would I devote 5-6 hours to brewing? Ummmm....there are only two reasons I can think of. Either the beer is so exceptional its value is worth the time....or I like doing it.

I find it relaxing. All the reason I need right there. That doesn't mean others should like or not like it for the same or different reasons. To each his own.

 

[ericbw]

It all just depends on how we wish to invest or spend our time. There isn't a right answer, except as is appropriate for each of us. If it's hard to find more than a 3-hour time block in which you can be pretty certain of no interruptions, then that's how it is.

If you are pressed for time, then extract may be the only way. And if it produces beer you like to drink, it's a win.

I've just switched to all-grain, and I'm working to find ways to reduce the time spent. But there are inescapable time sinks I probably can't reduce much. Just bringing 5 gallons of water to 170 degrees takes time. Then there's preheating the mash tun. Then doughing in, and then waiting an hour. Then draining the mash tun, mixing in more water for a batch sparge, then draining again.

I'm thinking that's 2 full hours right there if everything goes right. Then bringing to a boil, then boiling for an hour--probably another 90 minutes. Then racking to the primary, and cleaning up--at least an hour, maybe 90 minutes.

By my count, that's 5 hours to do an all-grain. And it'll probably take longer because Murphy was an optimist.

Why on earth would I devote 5-6 hours to brewing? Ummmm....there are only two reasons I can think of. Either the beer is so exceptional its value is worth the time....or I like doing it.

I find it relaxing. All the reason I need right there. That doesn't mean others should like or not like it for the same or different reasons. To each his own.

Agree. And I can't get an all grain batch done in less than 5 hours. I tried getting stuff out the night before, clean as you go, etc. It just takes that long start to finish.

That's one of the nice things about doing 1 gallon batches. That's still about 3 hours, but you can manage that in the evening. I wouldn't want to start a batch at 5pm and finish at 10 (if I'm perfect).

 

[dmtaylor]

That's one of the nice things about doing 1 gallon batches. That's still about 3 hours, but you can manage that in the evening. I wouldn't want to start a batch at 5pm and finish at 10 (if I'm perfect).

I love small batch brewing. Love love LOVE small batch brewing. If you enjoy the process of brewing, then there's like zero disadvantages!