All Bittering Hops the Same?

[Clint Yeastwood]

I am enjoying an ale I made. In 5 gallons, I used 1.25 ounces of Columbus for bittering (60 minutes), along with Crystal later on in the boil (15 minutes) and steeped (10 minutes).

Back when I used to brew, people seemed to think there were big differences in bittering hops. Now I see people writing that it doesn't matter what you use at the start of a boil because everything but the bitterness boils away. Is that really true? I love this ale, but I can't help wondering if there is such a thing as a smoother bitterness.

 

[Jack Arandir]

I think the best answer is no, and yes. No, 60 minutes of boiling will volatilize most of the aroma and flavor, leaving just the isomerized alpha acids behind. Yes, because hops bring a whole lot to the table beyond the volatile aromas. All of the complex interplays of proteins, amino acids, and organic molecules contribute to flavor. German brewers have long sought ideal bittering hops, pushing down co-humulone levels in search of a smooth, gentle bitterness.

Personally, I use cheap, high alpha acid hops like warrior and magnum for bittering, then layer other hops for flavor and aroma. But truthfully, unless you're a professional brewer seeking maximum consistency, the hop variety won't matter.

 

[SanPancho]

yes, variety matters for bittering hops. but in the sense that there are a few to avoid. (as opposed to having to search for a "good" one)

the last one i used that was an actual "bad" bittering hop was polaris. 20% alpha, seemed like a good candidate, but damn thing gave beer a herbal, menthol, eucalyptus flavor that was horrible. apollo can be weird, sometimes a harsh diesel, chemical flavor. summit with garlic/onion sometimes. etc.

 

[NSMikeD]

I am pretty sure, so hopefully some more knowable will clarify, but there appears to be more than one way that the traditional long boil to get the bittering done while still getting a lot more than bettering. I recall the NEIPA brewers achieving bittering solely during dry hopping. Then there is a resurgence of an old method from Germany in first wort hops which supposedly achieves a variation of the isomerization of the acids that produces a more "rounded" bitterness and "elegant" aromas.


so with your desire for a more smoother bitter, I'd bet it would be worth your while to look into first wort hopping with the Columbus to see if that hits the mark your desire.

to make matters more confusing, I've been reading how different yeasts and how you ferment will impact the hops.

The more I read about hops the less I understand them.

 

[day_trippr]

I recall the NEIPA brewers achieving bittering solely during dry hopping.

Perhaps you mean "solely during whirlpooling"?

The more I read about hops the less I understand them.

There ya go

Cheers!

 

[Clint Yeastwood]

I thought I was first wort hopping. I dump the Columbus in after mash out, when the wort is coming down from 170°. I am reading up on first wort hopping. I can't tell if you're supposed to let the wort cool first or what. I use an AIO, so I'm not moving anything to a tun.

 

[SanPancho]

I thought I was first wort hopping. I dump the Columbus in after mash out, when the wort is coming down from 170°. I am reading up on first wort hopping. I can't tell if you're supposed to let the wort cool first or what. I use an AIO, so I'm not moving anything to a tun.

FWh is just putting in your bittering hops into empty kettle while you're still transferring wort from the mash. they sit at whatever temp your mash wort is, soaking, and gently rise to boil while you're kettle fills and you wait for it to boil.

yes, some neipa recipes pretty much get all their "bittering" from dry hops, its a thing. not well understood yet, but dry hop alone does appear to impart some bitterness/ibus.

lastly, you can always mash hop to get your bitterness without flavor. this is actually a good idea in my opinion, it creates alot of thiol precursors, and thiols have antioxidant properties, so the assumption is that the precursors hopefully act that way as well. it essentially acts like a buffer agent or natural "preservative" against oxygen damage.

lastly DO NOT use polaris as a bittering hop. it looks good on paper, 20% AA, only need a little bit, but man, you get menthol, eucalyptus, and its just nasty as hell. threw that bag right in the trash.
summit has onion/garlic flavor sometimes.
apollo can give a diesel, chemical harsh tone.

those are the only hops i am aware of that you should stay away from. im sure there are a few more.

 

[VikeMan]

yes, some neipa recipes pretty much get all their "bittering" from dry hops, its a thing. not well understood yet, but dry hop alone does appear to impart some bitterness/ibus.

Dry hopping imparts bitterness because of Humulinones, which are about 2/3 as bitter as isomerized alpha acids, are very soluble in water, and don't require boiling or high temperatures to convert them into something else (the way alpha acids need high temps to become isomerized).

 

[Clint Yeastwood]

So the basic answer is that it's a mystery I have to solve on my own, because beer is complicated.

I wonder if I should try using a boatload of a noble hop instead of Columbus. Wow...Beersmith says I would need about 5 ounces of Saaz, to pick an example. I have to wonder what other flavors would drown the beer at that level. Possibly not a great idea.

 

[jtgoral]

I boil extract brews for 20 minutes, so the kind of bittering hops does matter for me.

 

[SanPancho]

honestly, you're overthinking it. there's only a few hop varieties you should avoid. everything else will work, with varying degrees of success/impact.

nobles arent a very "good" choice as they are fairly low in alpha, which means you have to add a lot of green material. that's why everyone uses higher alpha stuff typically. but in a mash hop that's fine, because the green material never makes it into boil kettle.

magnum is a decently high alpha and smooth bitter. CTZ is high, but has a bit of bite that doesnt work with all styles, mostly hoppy stuff. warrior is good, but generally with stuff that can take a bit of bite, like hoppy stuff. similar to CTZ. the germans have one called herkules, very smooth bitterness, decently high in alpha, but harder to find.

and if you're already making a beer with new school stuff like citra, mosaic, strata, etc. you can always use those as they're all usually fairly high in alpha. and obviously the flavor will complement the rest of the beer. when shops have sales on hops, sometimes i look for a new school hop that's been sitting in freezer forever (say 2019 crop year citra) and its typically on sale/clearance for cheap. no reason you cant use something like that, the citra flavor will be muted, but you only care about bittering anyways.

honestly, if its too much, just use magnum. its clean, smooth, and fairly generic. works with pretty much everything. buy a pound when it goes on sale and just make that your standard bittering hop. nobody ever complains about magnum.
done.

 

[BongoYodeler]

When I want early boil bittering I almost always go with Magnum.

 

[Miraculix]

There are significant differences regarding flavour impact from bittering additions. You can read about this plus the scientific background in scott janishs book "The new IPA". The typical aromas that are usually associated with c-hops are mostly driven off. But other flavours and aromas survive or even need the boil time to be extracted/build through chemical reactions.

So no, not all bittering hops are the same.

Especially the noble hops do fairly well regarding flavour and aroma impact through longer boils.

 

[TheMadKing]

nobles arent a very "good" choice as they are fairly low in alpha, which means you have to add a lot of green material. that's why everyone uses higher alpha stuff typically. but in a mash hop that's fine, because the green material never makes it into boil kettle.

magnum is a decently high alpha and smooth bitter. CTZ is high, but has a bit of bite that doesnt work with all styles, mostly hoppy stuff. warrior is good, but generally with stuff that can take a bit of bite, like hoppy stuff. similar to CTZ. the germans have one called herkules, very smooth bitterness, decently high in alpha, but harder to find.

honestly, if its too much, just use magnum. its clean, smooth, and fairly generic. works with pretty much everything. buy a pound when it goes on sale and just make that your standard bittering hop. nobody ever complains about magnum.
done.

110% This

I use magnum in almost every beer and I agree that CTZ and Warrior can both be a bit harsher. I tend to get vegital flavors when using low alpha nobles for bittering. Spalt is about the closest I'll do.

I like Target for bittering english ales too

I've had good luck doing a 100% mandarina bavaria beer recently with very pleasant smooth bitterness, but it's definitely more of an aroma hop. I added it at 60, 10, and WP

 

[Shenanigans]

Almost repeating or just agreeing with what's been posted already.
The answer for me is yes, doing side-by-side comparisons with the same recipe with different bittering hops you will notice a difference.
Depending on the beer style maybe no difference.
Most wont stick out to make the beer signifficantly better or worse but there are some candidates that can be overpowering.

For what it's worth I also like Target for bittering.

 

[Clint Yeastwood]

Maybe Magnum is the way to go. I'm in love with this beer, but who can resist tinkering?

Thanks for the well thought-out replies.

 

[NSMikeD]

Perhaps you mean "solely during whirlpooling"?



There ya go

Cheers!

Not totally. I’ll look it up but I recall coming across an article about isomerizaruon occurring during tue active fermentation stage being used for bittering hazy NEIPAs as an alternative method. I’ll see if can find it.

My point remains there appears to be new lessons to be learned about hops on a regular basis as brewers and scientists keep experimenting with them.