Alabama Homebrewer Arrested

[BeerWars]

Until real crime (i.e. the kind where there is a victim) drops to zero, I don't think we should be going out of our way to arrest and prosecute harmless individuals.

I can't agree with this more.

 

[Teromous]

I think they were just intimidated by the Fermentator. Even the sound of it is intimidating. Say it out loud. Fermentator.

 

[Doog_Si_Reeb]

I absolutely disagree with the belief that any law on the books is a legitimate law. Which state is it that outlaws carrying ice cream in your back pocket? However, if you are doing something that is illegal in your state, you're at risk of getting **** from the cops. I don't know the details of the arrest, but could the alleged "moonshine" just be homebrewed beer?

On a side note, that dude had some really nice brewing equipment! It's a damn shame that it will be sitting in the evidence room (or maybe in Sheriff ****-head's garage)...

 

[ChshreCat]

I'm one that feels there are laws that are so bad that they can't help but be broken. But at the same time if I'm breaking them and get caught then I have the sense not to be surprised and appaled that they would dare to enforce a law that was on the books and I knew was in effect when I was breaking it.

If I get pulled over driving 50 on a road that is safe to drive at 50 and SHOULD be driven at 50, but has a 40 mph speed limit, then I just grit my teeth and take it.

Like said, if a law is wrong and unjust, then fight to have it repealed.

 

[ColonelForbin]

i dont obey the law. if i think a law is wrong i just ignore it, discretley of course. i am mature enough and have strong enough morals to choose what is right and wrong for myself. and homebrewing is right. there is nothing wrong about it no matter what state you live in. homebrewing is american. america is homebrewing.

 

[sudbuster]

I'm one that feels there are laws that are so bad that they can't help but be broken. But at the same time if I'm breaking them and get caught then I have the sense not to be surprised and appaled that they would dare to enforce a law that was on the books and I knew was in effect when I was breaking it.

If I get pulled over driving 50 on a road that is safe to drive at 50 and SHOULD be driven at 50, but has a 40 mph speed limit, then I just grit my teeth and take it.

Like said, if a law is wrong and unjust, then fight to have it repealed.

+1 Exactly. In the mean time, obey or pay the consequences. That's what's so great about America,there is a legal way to appeal a law we feel unjust, but suppose the majority feels other wise,that does not excuse breaking the law.

 

[ChshreCat]

Not to meniton that I wouldn't publish pictures of myself violating the law unless I was wanting to get busted so I could try to challange the law in court or something.

 

[Ouroboros]

A perfect symptom of what's wrong with our society.

Whether you're left, right, or whatever, you can probably name a laundry list of things the government should be doing instead of busting homebrewers.

 

[DocBrown]

Let me offer some clarification on this subject. Those of us in the homebrewing circles in Alabama have been following this closely for a while. We've been hesitant to say much until we found out more facts about the case. First, homebrewing of beer is a felony in the state of Alabama. In some ways, the fact that it is a felony is a protection since law enforcement is going to be somewhat reticent in sending an otherwise upstanding citizen to jail for a relatively harmless crime. So, we (the group behind the homebrew legalization effort) have been trying to decide what position to take on this situation:
1) If distillation is really involved, it poses a major problem to our legalization efforts since some of our opponents are trying to associate homebrewing with moonshining. In this case, we would need (at an organizational level) to distance ourselves from this guy and assure the powers that be that he is in no way representative of the rest of us. (I am speaking only of the organizational level and not of our personal feelings about the guy and the individual desire to support him.)
2) If there is no distillation involved, he could potentially serve as a cause celebre in our legalization efforts. After all, what elected representative wants to see a guy who has faithfully served our country in two tours in Iraq thrown in jail just for enjoying a hobby that is legal in 48 of the 50 states?

Now, some additional facts: (These should be considered hearsay for legal purposes. I have them from someone who has spoken directly to Kade, the person in question.)
1) Kade has rightly been advised by his lawyer to keep quiet since the prosecution has a right to use anything he says. As such, you won't see any direct statements from him showing up in public forums. This is the major reason that there is little clarity on the issue.
2) Kade has been a longtime resident of Blount County, and there are longstanding feuds between some of the families there. It has been alleged that one of his neighbors that had a grudge against him reported to the cops that he was manufacturing meth. In the course of visiting his property, the cops supposedly spotted his brewing equipment through the window and got a warrant to raid his house.
3) There was a small still on his property along with a quantity of ethanol. Kade said that he has not distilled any liquor and the ethanol they found was given to him by someone else. In fact, he was intending to experiment with converting his farm equipment over to run off of ethanol.

 

[Hermit]

Something looks 'wrong' with that picture. Meaning Photoshop.
Is that supposed to be METH in the jar? My StarSan is liquid.
Edit: I am mistaking that white appearance in the jar for powder. I see it is just the refraction. Still, look at the shadow around the Sheriff. Looks funny.
Everything in Alabama that is fun is illegal, unless you count sex with your sister.
Sorry. Georgia joke. Bama fans, feel free to hit me back.

They busted some local law enforcement around here, Youngstown, Ohio for 'embellishing' what the found in raids. These (fill in the blank) kept bags of flour on hand to take in to let the press photograph. Can you say "evidence tampering and fair trial"?

Damned. Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness may not be in the constitution, but they are in the declaration of independence and our 'reason to be' as a nation.

 

[KCBrewer]

Not to meniton that I wouldn't publish pictures of myself violating the law unless I was wanting to get busted so I could try to challange the law in court or something.

Exactly. For example, my Dad is hobby fisherman in SW FL and fishes in the gulf for personal consumption (not a commercial fisherman). He's on some online fishing forums, and has seen people get busted by FWC who post pics of their catch and have fish that are either out of season or undersized.

I personally think those laws should apply to commercial fisherman only, not individuals (they can't find where 5M barrels of oil went, but can tell the population of each species of fish?). But, it is still the law, and until changed, you are asking for trouble if you post pictures of you breaking the law.

 

[pwndabear]

HOLD ON ONE SECOND HERE:
The main issue I am seeing here is thatFederal Law supersedes all state laws as every individual state is part of the federal government. That's just how the system works:
If a state law is in conflict with a federal law, the federal law overpowers the state law. In this instance, when Carter made it legal to homebrew in the United States of America, any law that previously stated that it was illegal was made null and void.

This is basic knowledge of government workings here. So, with that in mind, this man is 100% innocent of his "crimes" in homebrewing beer.

If he had in fact distilled, however, he could face penalties as distilling is indeed illegal. For that, as stupid as it is, he is guilty all be it on THAT CHARGE ALONE and not in any way, shape, or form of homebrewing.

This needs to be seriously examined more closely...

Stupid Alabama old prickface sherrif in that picture needs to get his clock cleaned for turning something relatively harmless into a massacre of RIGHTS of the US Citizen.

 

[Shooter]

HOLD ON ONE SECOND HERE:
The main issue I am seeing here is thatFederal Law supersedes all state laws as every individual state is part of the federal government. That's just how the system works:
If a state law is in conflict with a federal law, the federal law overpowers the state law.

I suppose it all depends on your interpretation of the 10th amendment.

 

[pwndabear]

I suppose it all depends on your interpretation of the 10th amendment.

Constitutional Law is absolutely first, followed by Federal law, then state, and finally local laws..

*edit* ah. gotcha. im not gonna make a new post to respond to your next one. that'd just be silly.

 

[Shooter]

Constitutional Law is absolutely first, followed by Federal law, then state, and finally local laws.

Right, which is what I'm getting at.

 

[northernlad]

First things first:
Just because you don't like a law doesn't mean its not the law. All those jackasses trying to justify stealing music via P2P downloading are a prime example. If you don't like it, get it changed. Until you do, you are a criminal.
Second:
Just because a guy signs up for military duty and somehow gets shipped off to somewhere does not absolve him of crimes he might commit when he gets back.
Finally:
You don't know the circumstances surrounding this so it would be wise to refrain from judgement of the perp or the law. Period.

 

[MrWiggles]

Here is where the law stands in Alabama on homebrewing alcohol.
You are allowed to make 5 gallons of wine a year if you own property that sells fruit commercially. PERIOD.
But, Federal law does supercede states law. Look at all of the cases in California where DEA (part of the federal gov) agents bust legal marijuana grow operations or medical "distributors". This is perfectly legal by California state law. But it is superceded by the DEA's federal law.
Even if the ethanol was for farm equipment, it is still a distilled spirit. If they can prove he distilled it, he is still guilty on that charge. Otherwise, he should fight untill it goes to a national court and win because of what I just stated.

 

[NorCalAngler]

Right, which is what I'm getting at.

Just to clarify, federal law was changed to eliminate taxation on homebrew for personal use. It doesn't say homebrewing is legal in every state in the union... it leaves that up to the states. From homebrewersassociation.org:

The 21st Amendment predominantly leaves regulation of alcohol to the states. Thus, even though homebrewing is federally legal, it is still up to individual states to legalize homebrewing in state codes. The vast majority of states have legalized homebrewing, though laws regarding homebrewing vary widely.

 

[pwndabear]

Just to clarify, federal law was changed to eliminate taxation on homebrew for personal use. It doesn't say homebrewing is legal in every state in the union... it leaves that up to the states. From homebrewersassociation.org:

well that takes care of that.

 

[LeadFarmer]

Any one ever think he traded a buddy some Beer for some Moon shine?

 

[MrWiggles]

Any one ever think he traded a buddy some Beer for some Moon shine?

Mystery solved.

Have you thought about being a detective?

 

[ruffdeezy]

Sounds like an ass-backwards state to me.

 

[LeadFarmer]

Nope my ass is on straight i think lol

 

[klyph]

A free man breaks the laws he does not agree with.

 

[jppostKW]

Let me offer some clarification on this subject. Those of us in the homebrewing circles in Alabama have been following this closely for a while. We've been hesitant to say much until we found out more facts about the case. First, homebrewing of beer is a felony in the state of Alabama. In some ways, the fact that it is a felony is a protection since law enforcement is going to be somewhat reticent in sending an otherwise upstanding citizen to jail for a relatively harmless crime. So, we (the group behind the homebrew legalization effort) have been trying to decide what position to take on this situation:
1) If distillation is really involved, it poses a major problem to our legalization efforts since some of our opponents are trying to associate homebrewing with moonshining. In this case, we would need (at an organizational level) to distance ourselves from this guy and assure the powers that be that he is in no way representative of the rest of us. (I am speaking only of the organizational level and not of our personal feelings about the guy and the individual desire to support him.)
2) If there is no distillation involved, he could potentially serve as a cause celebre in our legalization efforts. After all, what elected representative wants to see a guy who has faithfully served our country in two tours in Iraq thrown in jail just for enjoying a hobby that is legal in 48 of the 50 states?

Now, some additional facts: (These should be considered hearsay for legal purposes. I have them from someone who has spoken directly to Kade, the person in question.)
1) Kade has rightly been advised by his lawyer to keep quiet since the prosecution has a right to use anything he says. As such, you won't see any direct statements from him showing up in public forums. This is the major reason that there is little clarity on the issue.
2) Kade has been a longtime resident of Blount County, and there are longstanding feuds between some of the families there. It has been alleged that one of his neighbors that had a grudge against him reported to the cops that he was manufacturing meth. In the course of visiting his property, the cops supposedly spotted his brewing equipment through the window and got a warrant to raid his house.
3) There was a small still on his property along with a quantity of ethanol. Kade said that he has not distilled any liquor and the ethanol they found was given to him by someone else. In fact, he was intending to experiment with converting his farm equipment over to run off of ethanol.

thanks for the update i am interested on how this will turn out

 

[lunchbox]

Whether you're left, right, or whatever, you can probably name a laundry list of things the government should be doing instead of busting homebrewers.

To be fair, the group your asking might be a bit bias...

 

[rico567]

Im sorry if Im wrong but ( I know i dont I all the facts)or even ( strait ) Didnt President Jimmy Carter(1977ish) make It legal to home brew for personal use .
Isn't Alabama part of the deal?

No; the legalization of homebrewing by the federal government doesn't supersede state & local laws in any way. Google up the repeal of the 18th Amendment and Local Option. There are still parts of this country where prohibition is by no means dead, and there are those elements who would love to see the return of it to the whole nation. There are New Drys, for example. And then there are the places where alcohol is legal, but under the control of some idiot state monopoly, like PA.

And please, no grousing about this; if you live in a dry area, or where homebrewing is prohibited, then organize to get the laws repealed. But that IS reality, at this point.

 

[Valcarde]

A free man breaks the laws he does not agree with.

And won't be a free man very long with that attitude.

Best to work to change a law you don't agree with, then outright breaking in a flagrant disregard for legal process. Not agreeing with a law does not make you exempt from it.

 

[Starderup]

homebrewing of beer is a felony in the state of Alabama
I live in Georgia, and people here don't understand why the Deep South is regarded by the rest of the country as regressive, undereducated, and backwoods.
This kind of thing is one of the reasons. I am amazed that something like that could be a felony.
I absolutely would never live in that state for that reason alone.

 

[rico567]

And won't be a free man very long with that attitude.

Best to work to change a law you don't agree with, then outright breaking in a flagrant disregard for legal process. Not agreeing with a law does not make you exempt from it.

Thank you. Now watch Cool Hand Luke, and if "Valcarde: is willing to accept the outcomes, then proceed.