Aging in a keg?

[beersteiner2345]

OK, I understand that this is just as easily done as in a bottle. But, I see no where with specific directions...

I am going to keep the kegs around 70 degrees while aging. My plan?

Put the gas on it at 12 psi and just wait until I am ready to drink it, then get it cold for a day or two before drinking. Or would it be better to put enough CO2 in to kick the O2 out and not carb it. (i.e. make myself wait to drink it. lol)

Anything I am missing?

I should add, I plan on doing this for a Saison and a Hefeweizen. And by "aging", I just mean for a month or two. Not several months.

Man I don't miss bottling at all.

 

[Golddiggie]

I would put it at the pressure needed to get your CO2 volumes for about two weeks, then take it off the gas and age it for longer. Once carbonated (the two weeks span) you shouldn't need to put more gas on it until you've chilled it down. I would go for at least a few days at serving temp and pressure before pulling a pint.

I'm new to kegging too, and am getting ready to bottle almost none of batches. For the last two batches that have been ready, I kegged either 3 or 2.5 gallons (kegs sizes I'm using) and bottled the balance. For the next batch, I plan to keg all of it. I plan to do that moving forward for most batches. For higher OG brews I will probably bottle a small amount, but I'll keg the balance.

I just need more kegs. I also need to get/make a keezer once I've moved to a larger place. At that point, I'll have the option of using 5 gallon kegs too.

I'm also planning on pulling a pint from my first keg used within a couple of days. I just need to get the QD, beer line, and picnic tap ready and connect it up to the keg. I still have plenty in bottles (chilled too) so there's no real rush. I've had mine on gas for about a week and a half now (in the fridge for longer) so it will be ready when I am.

I will say, that as much as I didn't mind bottling, I really like the simplicity of kegging. Plus, you can actually target CO2 volumes for the brew and hit them without worrying about going too far over, or under. It also opens up larger brews without needing to add more yeast for bottle carbonating. :rockin: IMO, anytime I can do less work and get a better (or just as good) result, it's a win...

 

[WhiskeyR]

The colder the beer, the better it carbs.

For a Hefe you want 3+ volumes of co2. 40 degrees with 18 psi would do that.

If you do 70 degrees with 12 psi you'll end up with 1.31 volumes co2.

To carb it correctly at 70 you would need 40+ psi.

 

[beersteiner2345]

Will look into that. I am more talking about aging the beers, rather than carbing them at this point.

Golddiggie- I hear you. I fortunately have a keezer big enough for four 5 gallon kegs. Although I only currently have three kegs and two taps/beerlines/faucets.

WhiskeyR- Is there a resource that specifies typical volumes that are characteristic for each style?

 

[WhiskeyR]

I've only kegged 4 beers so far, so I am no expert. But I personally found the stickies in the kegging section to be very helpful.

It will still be very under carbed with your method. Its okay to age it however you like, but when you're ready to drink it you need time for it to carbonate or you'll be drinking nearly flat beer.

Here is a resource for you re: Beer Styles and CO2 Volumes

http://sdcollins.home.mindspring.com/ForceCarbonation.html

There is also an Excel spreadsheet I found somewhere on this forum. If you PM me your email I can send it to you.

 

[msh227]

If you google beer carbonation table or kegging table you should find that resource. There might be something on a thread here also.

As far as conditioning in the keg wouldnt it work if you hit it with CO2 and purged oxygen out and then left keg sit without gas hooked up??

 

[WhiskeyR]

to better illustrate what I mean about carbonation:

12 psi @ 70 degrees = 1.31 volumes of CO2
12 psi @ 40 degrees = 2.47 volumes of CO2

You'll need probably a week or more to carb once you cool it down. And if its a Hefe you'll need more pressure.

 

[beersteiner2345]

Whiskey- Thanks! Google is my friend and I found it.

msh- I would think that would work, but the beer would absorb some of that CO2.

I am thinking I will just go ahead and carb it up to serving and let it sit. No reason not to I suppose. lol

 

[KCBigDog]

Instead of force carbing, I just keg conditioned with sugar for the first time on a double chocolate milk stout. It is amazing. Best carbination I've ever had.

I computed the amount of priming sugar into the keg with beersmith. I highly recommend it.

 

[msh227]

Right but you wouldnt be 'over carbing' it so i would think it would be fine until you hit it with carb psi. Dont know i havent tried yet.

 

[msh227]

KCBigDog - how long did you let it sit and condition?

 

[beersteiner2345]

KCBigDog- Did you not have problems with crud getting sucked up with this method?

 

[Golddiggie]

I'll second purging the keg of O2/air and filling the headspace with CO2. Once you've done that, it's safe to sit for a long time. I did that with a keg I brought home last night (I brew, bottle/keg at a buddy's place) since I don't have all the gas lines setup in my rig yet. It's in the fridge chilling out while the rest of my place is TFH (although it's getting better)...

I did score one of the 20# CO2 tanks that a member was selling just over a week ago. Once that arrives, I plan on installing a bulkhead through the side of the fridge, and have the tank outside. That will open up another space for a 3 gallon keg. Once that's all done, I'll have room for two 3 gallon and two 2.5 gallon kegs. Not sure if I'll have room for bottles, but that's why I have the other fridge. Once my setup is ready, I'll post a picture. Not sure (yet) how long it will be before I have taps through the door, but I suspect it will be before winter is upon us. :rockin: Or I'll just wait to do taps in the keezer, and use the fridge to carbonate once I have that.

BTW, I typically age my batches (especially when aging on something) in Sanke kegs before bottling them up. If you're just looking for more conditioning time, I would still get the keg cooler than ~70F. Unless that's the temperature of your basement. When you think it's aged enough, do a normal carbonation on it. Unless you have other batches of the same style, or on the same PSI/CO2 volumes target, you might want to get a regulator setup for the higher CO2 volume brews. Pretty much everything I'm brewing is good in the 2-2.2 CO2 volumes range. When I do get to a batch that needs a very different volume, I can either use the paintball CO2 bottle (20oz) or I can get another regulator and use one of the 2.5# CO2 tanks...

Not sure how common this is, but I'm about to have all of the following CO2 vessels:
1 20# CO2 tank -- coming
1 5# CO2 tank -- have
1 2.5# CO2 tank -- have
1 2.5# CO2 tank -- coming
2 20oz paintball CO2 bottles -- have (have a regulator setup for these too)

I'm thinking about getting another regulator to use when taking one of the 2.5# tanks someplace. That is, IF I don't take one of the 20oz tanks. I like to have options on what I can do. So being locked into just one mode/method doesn't sit very well with me. :rockin:

BTW, I'm using the "The Handy-Dandy Slow Force Carbonation Chart featuring Pressure vs. Temperature in Degrees Fahrenheit" chart... 2 weeks at the PSI/temperature indicated is supposed to do the trick...

 

[rycov]

Right but you wouldnt be 'over carbing' it so i would think it would be fine until you hit it with carb psi. Dont know i havent tried yet.

the risk there would be if you disconnected the co2 and the beer absorbed enough co2 for the lid to become un seated. it's probably a small risk though. Personally I would like to try priming the keg, but I only have one keg, so I've never needed to.

 

[beersteiner2345]

Ok, so I think, since I have the capacity... I will just keg all three beers into different kegs, set them to serving temp in the keezer, and just hook the two that have already aged in secondary to the faucets. I won't touch the Saison until one of the others empties. At which point I can hook the saison up to faucet, clean the keg, and rack another batch into it and set it to serving pressure to age while drinking the saison.

Seems like a decent enough pipeline I suppose.

 

[KCBigDog]

KCBigDog - how long did you let it sit and condition?

3 weeks at 68 degrees. The first pint was perfect.

 

[KCBigDog]

KCBigDog- Did you not have problems with crud getting sucked up with this method?

There was very little. The poured out about 4 oz of beer, and the next full pint was perfect!

 

[VillageBrew]

WhiskeyR wrote:

"to better illustrate what I mean about carbonation:

12 psi @ 70 degrees = 1.31 volumes of CO2
12 psi @ 40 degrees = 2.47 volumes of CO2

You'll need probably a week or more to carb once you cool it down. And if its a Hefe you'll need more pressure."

I too am new to home brewing & kegging and am not familiar with the proper volume levels of CO2. What are the ideal levels? I am quick carbing a hefeweizen at 25psi for 48 hours and then 10psi for four days before drinking.

 

[msh227]

KCBigDog - I'll have to give that a try. I have plenty of priming sugar and one of those small CO2 pouring dispensers to use instead of the hand pump.

 

[WhiskeyR]

I too am new to home brewing & kegging and am not familiar with the proper volume levels of CO2. What are the ideal levels? I am quick carbing a hefeweizen at 25psi for 48 hours and then 10psi for four days before drinking.

For wheat beers (I have a Belgian Wit and a Dunkelweizen on tap right now) I do 30psi for 48 hours then purge and drop to 18psi @ 40 degrees. This gives right at 3 volumes of co2, which I like but I think many wheat beers have more.

You want more carbonation in a wheat beer. I posted a link earlier in this thread that should be helpful.

 

[cheezydemon3]

............carbing the beer is no mystery.

Aging was the question.

I think that letting the beer age in a fridge is tragic.

 

[WhiskeyR]

............carbing the beer is no mystery.

Aging was the question.

I think that letting the beer age in a fridge is tragic.

Except that OP's proposed method (12 psi @ 70 degrees then 2 days cold) will not result in carbonated beer for two weeks. He asked "Anything I am missing?" and the answer is "carbonation".

He's not missing anything regarding aging. Except that Hefe's are best drank young.

 

[beersteiner2345]

The aging is only going to be for a short time (kind of like a secondary.) And it's not going to be for the hefe. It'll be for the Saison. Basically letting it sit while my Pale ale and Hefe are on my two taps...

 

[WhiskeyR]

You should be good. Purge the air with a blast of co2, let it age and proceed as normal when you're ready. Should work out great.

 

[cheezydemon3]

Saison indeed, age it warm, carbed or not.