Aging carbed beer

[abarhan]

I have a Brown Ale and an IPA that I carbed about 2 weeks ago and they both taste a little off, kinda like soap but the flavor is in and out and from what I have read I think it will age away.

Can I take these kegs out of the keezer to age at 70ish for a few weeks once they are carbed and have been "tapped"?

I have been scrubbing the net for this flavor and I cannot seem to narrow it down to one thing causing it. The common response is soap in the glass, which is definitely not the case. The other cause I found was extended time on yeast cake, Brown ale was on it 28days and the IPA was racked at 21 days so I kinda doubt that has been to long.

Is this mild but noticeable flavor just green beer or has anyone experienced this issue?

I have all new equipment that was properly washed with PBW and sanitized with Star-san. Tap water was used (potential bad move) but apparently San Antonio water is not half bad. The kits were from two different places so I eliminated that as the cause.

Brewing tonight with bottled water just in case, hopefully I don't have 15gl of soapy beer...

 

[unionrdr]

Did you rinse off the PBW before sanitizing with starsan? What temps did you ferment them at?

 

[abarhan]

Temps were at 66-70F.

PBW was rinsed and SS added. I was under the impression that a light rinse of the PBW was sufficient since most of the rinsing would occur by the star San

 

[Fatrich]

I was actually wondering the same thing... Can you take beer out of the keezer and bring it back to 70 degrees to age or just let it sit in the fridge and it will age in there?

 

[Maxkling]

PBW needs to be thoroughly rinsed off. Star-san must NOT be rinsed off.

 

[JLem]

Beer will continue to age even if carbed and cold. No worries there.

What hops did you use? Some people find some hops (e.g Spaltz) to be on the "soapy" side.

 

[unionrdr]

yes,you could bring it out & warm it up. let it sit with some little co2 pressure to keep the air out of it while it ages a couple weeks.

 

[abarhan]

yes,you could bring it out & warm it up. let it sit with some little co2 pressure to keep the air out of it while it ages a couple weeks.

Nice, thanks for the reply on that issue.

 

[abarhan]

Will the tap water in SA yield a soapy flavor??

 

[unionrdr]

I'm inclined to think it's something else. Tap water most likely would give that band aid flavor from the chlorine. Maybe the combo of hops used as was suggested?..

 

[abarhan]

Yea I have heard that as well but I cannot imagine that two different styles of beer having the same off flavor. The Brown ale was the Caribou slobber from NB and peole rave about this kit so it makes me think it is something on my end. The IPA was the Diamond Knot IPA. The kits were followed to a T, a wee bit anal when it comes too beer but obviously not enough.

 

[abarhan]

So brewed a batch of Amber ale last night and tasted the chilled wort that was is in the test tube and the taste is there as well. Below is the setup I am using, anyone notice anything that is off?

Keggle with 3peice ball valve and weld less fitting. Copper center dip tube with a SS scotch bright pad to filter hops/grain. White thermo tubing and a Dudadiesel 40 plate and a glass 6.5 carboy. I bought filtered spring water so it cannot be the water either.

I cleaned everything with PBW, rinsed and sanitized with StarSan. I diluted the SS to the directions on the package and was racking on to foam when I noticed the taste so I rinsed the carboy out and finished racking. At least I narrowed it down to the first step.

Any thoughts...

 

[unionrdr]

Rinsing the starsan is counter productive. Might be letting nasties back in. I wonder about the copper dip tube maybe reacting with something?

 

[JLem]

Rinsing the starsan is counter productive. Might be letting nasties back in. I wonder about the copper dip tube maybe reacting with something?

I can't imagine it's the star san or the copper. Both are used extensively in homebrewing. I use star san on everything and my immersion chiller is 30' of copper.

This one is a head-scratcher. I'll keep scratching and see if I can't think of something helpful. Other than process, what are the commonalities? Same type of extract perhaps?

 

[abarhan]

I can't imagine it's the star san or the copper. Both are used extensively in homebrewing. I use star san on everything and my immersion chiller is 30' of copper.

This one is a head-scratcher. I'll keep scratching and see if I can't think of something helpful. Other than process, what are the commonalities? Same type of extract perhaps?

Yea I was just thinking of anything outside of the norm. For the commonalities:

Caribou Slobber kit from NB with LME and DME--Tap water
Diamond Know IPA clone kit with only DME Assorted hops--Tap Water
Phat Tyre Amber Ale from NB with LME AND DME Assorted hops.--Filtered Spring water.

I did not taste the wort from the first batch only the chilled and carbed version but the taste is kinda the same for all three. I wouldn't go as far as saying that it is "industrial flavor" but soapy is fairly accurate. I am hoping they are "green" and there is nothing to worry about but its a little alarming that I have a lifetime supply of dish soap, makes me leery to brew more until I can narrow it down.

 

[venquessa]

Does chlorine not settle out / evaporate off water in 24 hours? Or is that an urban myth?

 

[JLem]

OK, I just took a look at John Palmer's How to Brew, which has a section on off-flavors. Here's his info on "soapy"

"Soapy flavors can caused by not washing your glass very well, but they can also be produced by the fermentation conditions. If you leave the beer in the primary fermentor for a relatively long period of time after primary fermentation is over ("long" depends on the style and other fermentation factors), soapy flavors can result from the breakdown of fatty acids in the trub. Soap is, by definition, the salt of a fatty acid; so you are literally tasting soap."

Not sure that this helps any since I would assume you would have mentioned the use of soap in your process and since you taste that same flavor pre-fermentation, it clearly cannot be a time on the trub issue.

I wonder if it is something about the DME. ANy idea how fresh it is?

Do you have a LHBS you could bring some beer to? FOlks there might be able to help you pin-point the off-flavor.

 

[venquessa]

Can fatty acids not come from many sources? Notably DNA, RNA and general biomass?

 

[JLem]

Can fatty acids not come from many sources? Notably DNA, RNA and general biomass?

Well, not from DNA or RNA, but certainly from fats and oils (ie triglycerides). But I can't imagine those would be present in these beers.

 

[abarhan]

The DME and LME that was used is from Northern Brewer so I would imagine that they are fresh but I kind ruled that out due to the same issue in 3 different batches from 2 different companies. The sping water version sans the chlorine tastes soapy as well.

The soap in the glass and too long in primary unfortunately don't explain the taste in the sample taken from the line after chilling. I wish it was that easy.

On the plus side I did drink a glass of the IPA last night and the taste seems to have mellowed a bit and is at least somewhat drinkable now, I am hoping it is just a "green" taste that will mellow and fade to gone.

Thanks everyone.